Sooooo.....who are you selling?

[Tnetennba]

The whole franchise?

[Tnetennba]

9 hours ago, Quin said:

I know the value has probably dropped, but I could probably get at least $20 for Tony's HoF plaque, right?

I would pay you $20 for it.  Just to burn it in effigy. 

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, HoosierSox said:

Sell TLR to the hall of fame. They can have their HOF manager back.

Shiiit, I would give him away for free AND pay his airfare.  

[TheFutureIsNear]

Abreu

Hendricks

Graveman

Cueto

 

Thats all I would trade. Fire Hahn and the whole coaching staff (wouldn’t hate keeping Katz). Hire a competent coach that doesn’t have ties to the organization to bring in a new culture. Make the small roster adjustments Hahn miserably failed at this past off-season and give it a go. I think we are pretty pot committed to most of this roster. I also still firmly believe this roster is playoff worthy, but  is carrying around a ball and chain of poor management (top to bottom)

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

7 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

damn, have you always been this nihilistic about this Sox FO? or is this something you recently came to a conclusion about

No. This season is brutal and they’re exposed. I actually like Rick Hahn. I’d be fine with him running the organization but he’s not. There are lots of issues and the only way to completely change it is by truly putting an outsider in charge. Maybe someone from Cleveland. It’s not happening though. Jerry probably sells within 3/5 years and there’s no chance he changes out the front office significantly before he goes. 

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Kenny's wife retired from TV news last year. I also read where Kenny said something along the lines of his last contract was going to be his last. Who knows,maybe it's for 10 years, but I am holding out hope he retires soon. The problem is , it seems there is very little chance they would replace him with an outsider, so the stench would linger.

 

I’m guessing Hahn would replace him 

[The Mighty Mite]

36 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

The whole franchise?

There are no untouchables, every offer has to be taken under advisement.

Edited July 9, 2022 by The Mighty Mite

[oldsox]

Abreu might want to finish his career in Miami.  

[kgrittenburg]

10 hours ago, Heads22 said:

So who do you sell?

 

Lynn? Hendriks? Abreu? Giolito? Graveman? Section 108?

I'd put together a package of Graveman, Hendriks and Giolito and see what you could get back in return

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

I would pay you $20 for it.  Just to burn it in effigy. 

You would be better off melting it down and recasting as a Little League trophy as those are the fundamentals this team has come to be associated with. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

No. This season is brutal and they’re exposed. I actually like Rick Hahn. I’d be fine with him running the organization but he’s not. There are lots of issues and the only way to completely change it is by truly putting an outsider in charge. Maybe someone from Cleveland. It’s not happening though. Jerry probably sells within 3/5 years and there’s no chance he changes out the front office significantly before he goes. 

I’m guessing Hahn would replace him 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimingraham/2021/03/29/the-cleveland-indians-pitching-factory-continues-to-churn-out-starters/?sh=28446ee45eed

“No organization finds and develops impact pitchers and gets them ready to contribute at the major league level quicker than Cleveland. When it comes to pitchers, their evaluators have an enviable track record, to the point they sometimes buy bulk.

Three of the five pitchers in this year’s rotation were acquired in the 2016 draft, and none of them were first-rounders. Or second-rounders. No. 3 starter Aaron Civale was selected in the third round, Bieber in the fourth round, and No. 2 starter Zach Plesac in the 12th round.

The No. 5 starter, Triston McKenzie, a first-round pick in 2015, hadn’t pitched competitively in over a year due to injuries when he made his major league debut on August 22 last year, a 6-1 win over Detroit in which he pitched six innings, allowing one run on two hits with 10 strikeouts and one walk.”

 

Interesting the featured pitcher in this article (Allen, from SD) completely imploded…

 

https://awaybackgone.com/2021/07/14/cleveland-indians-2021-mlb-draft-pitchers-pitchers/

 

“The 2021 MLB Draft has come and gone and the Cleveland Indians have added 21 new players to the organization. What might be the most shocking aspect is that of those 21 players added, 19 are pitchers. Cleveland has been called by the Pitching Factory for a few seasons now, but this takes the discussion to a whole new level.

Of the 21 selections, the Tribe spent the last eight on pitchers after having already taken 11 in the first 11 rounds of the draft. The club also took a shortstop in the third round and an outfielder in 12th, but the mass amount of arms is something that seems crazy.”

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

9 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Said this in the last thread. The guys who you should be moving are:

Gravemann, Cueto, Lopez. 

Possibly moving: McGuire (happy to listen to offers but white sox could have use for him too)

Abreu: up to him if he wants to be moving. He would have suitors and return something of value. 

Most of the other guys are either: Guys who you expect to have their value grow because they're young, guys whose value is depressed because of bad years or injury, and guys who are plain worthless. None of them likely to bring enough of a return to justify moving them.

Interesting.  I think you  nailed the 3.   
I would move  Harrison and Pollock along to create some room.  Some team could use a utility infielder, and Pollock has been good enough recently to take a flyer on for a 2nd half rebound.
2nd half used to recapture value of some of the veterans (some of these guys need to be moved in the offseason if for no other reason to freshen up this operation) and to give more time for young players.
Whether Tony is down with that, is another question.  After all, the Sox closed the 1983 season at 50-16.....

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

So everyone wants the Sox to rebuild again? 

At some level, they have so much money and time invested in a large group of players who haven’t lived up to their billing they have no choice but to run it back next year….

But look what we had to do last offseason. 2b, 2b, utility guy, reliever, reliever, 5th starter/reliever, 5th starter/ reliever, corner OF. Imagine that you can trade guys now, clear a little salary, and fill 2 or 3 of those roles. Find a couple of decent players to cover those spots and you make a serious impact on next years’ roster.

Its not as good of a plan as having been better in ‘22, but I can’t fix that now. That team is a sunk cost, I can’t let the fact that I screwed that up impact whether I give ‘23 my best effort.

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

At some level, they have so much money and time invested in a large group of players who haven’t lived up to their billing they have no choice but to run it back next year….

But look what we had to do last offseason. 2b, 2b, utility guy, reliever, reliever, 5th starter/reliever, 5th starter/ reliever, corner OF. Imagine that you can trade guys now, clear a little salary, and fill 2 or 3 of those roles. Find a couple of decent players to cover those spots and you make a serious impact on next years’ roster.

Its not as good of a plan as having been better in ‘22, but I can’t fix that now. That team is a sunk cost, I can’t let the fact that I screwed that up impact whether I give ‘23 my best effort.

I mean, I don't see how they don't run it back next year. If it doesn't work then, it never will and then it's time to tear down again. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

Interesting.  I think you  nailed the 3.   
I would move  Harrison and Pollock along to create some room.  Some team could use a utility infielder, and Pollock has been good enough recently to take a flyer on for a 2nd half rebound.
2nd half used to recapture value of some of the veterans (some of these guys need to be moved in the offseason if for no other reason to freshen up this operation) and to give more time for young players.
Whether Tony is down with that, is another question.  After all, the Sox closed the 1983 season at 50-16.....

Harrison and Pollock have effectively no value. If you can move them sure, but more likely you are talking about DFA them if you want the roster spot. Maybe you could move them if you picked up a portion of the contract, but not for any return in terms of players.

[GreenSox]

23 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Harrison and Pollock have effectively no value. If you can move them sure, but more likely you are talking about DFA them if you want the roster spot. Maybe you could move them if you picked up a portion of the contract, but not for any return in terms of players.

Yea, I know.  Just to create some room, which they'll need (could use some now).

Edited July 9, 2022 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

Just now, GreenSox said:

Yea, I know.  Just to create some room, which they'll need (could use some now).

I would be totally ok with clearing roster spots and giving Sosa and Sanchez burn in the last 2 months. However I admit being nervous that any version of a move that involves keeping Leury on the roster means that any rookies I bring up don’t even get 100 PAs over 2 months, and Leury’s contract is genuinely hard to release just because a manager refuses to use him as a backup.

[Jack Parkman]

If they DFA Pollock, how much money are they on the hook for? 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If they DFA Pollock, how much money are they on the hook for? 

Right now $15 million.

[GreenSox]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I would be totally ok with clearing roster spots and giving Sosa and Sanchez burn in the last 2 months. However I admit being nervous that any version of a move that involves keeping Leury on the roster means that any rookies I bring up don’t even get 100 PAs over 2 months, and Leury’s contract is genuinely hard to release just because a manager refuses to use him as a backup.

I like Leury because he can play OF and IF.  Just a nice backup, and, backup, of course, is precisely where he has value.    As you said, the manager insisting on starting him will screw things up in the "step back and retool" scenario; and it will ensure failure in  the "let's play this out and see what  happens" scenario.
I think there are a couple of crazy/"out of the box" things they could still do with essentially this roster to give this a fighting chance.  

[CentralChamps21]

33 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If they DFA Pollock, how much money are they on the hook for? 

Don't DFA anybody. If you can get someone to take a few million of the contracts of Pollock or Leury or Joe Kelly, you make that trade and get whatever organizational filler you can get in return. Someone will have an outfielder or a reliever go down over the next couple weeks and will be able to eat at least some of the money owed.

[southsideirish71]

If they are under 10 and have any signs of showing some life, the front office will push all chips into the middle and go for it.  That's Kenny's MO, and TLR is not here to push for next year  Hahn is kind of in charge.  It's a collective including TLR as the GM.   JR will burn the farm to the ground before he gives up on revenue for the year and on his greatest regret firing Tony.  Tony is too stubborn to walk away.  He won't want this to be his last ride.  He will want one more turn next year.  I see next year as a major white flag sell-off if they compete like this year.  I think they will chalk this up to injuries and needing one more piece and will ride this into the same wall again next year.  It's too stupid of a franchise.  

Edited July 9, 2022 by southsideirish71

[GREEDY]

1.  Cueto immediately.  Sell high, I don't need to gamble to sell higher. Add a top 25.  Maybe some high school pitcher from the 2021 3rd round or so.

2.  Lynn.  If we pick up the remainder of the 2022 money he should yield one real prospect.  Hopefully top 10 (for our org).  If you need another vet starter next season, get one in free agency. 

3. Hendricks/Graveman.  Do either have actual positive value above the money owed?  Maybe if we pickup the remainder of 2022 money?  If either can fetch a top 25... especially a young one, I think you do it.  Can always add relievers next year if you are reloading.  We need to add org depth, even if you are technically paying for it.

4.  Abreu.  If you aren't brining him back (and we shouldn't, unless you are trying to move Vaughn) he's gotta go.  Pickup the the money and get something real.  The return should probably come down to demand but I could see something useful coming back for sure.

5.  Salary Dumps:

Kelly:  I'd eat 2022 if anyone would pick up 2023.

Harrison:  the money due and he's yours.

Pollock:  half the money due and he's yours.

Leury:  I'd eat 2022, if anyone would pick up 23/24.

Yaz:  I'd eat 2022 and a few million of 23 if anyone is interested.

Guys I wouldn't trade:  Anyone you have to sell low on.  Yoan, Eloy, Gio.  The only sell high candidate I wouldn't move is ReyLo.  If he continues strong this year he will still be affordable in ARB 3 and you can roll the dice with him in the rotation next year or sell this offseason for more than he'd net right now (I think).

[ChiSox59]

13 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

1.  Cueto immediately.  Sell high, I don't need to gamble to sell higher. Add a top 25.  Maybe some high school pitcher from the 2021 3rd round or so.

2.  Lynn.  If we pick up the remainder of the 2022 money he should yield one real prospect.  Hopefully top 10 (for our org).  If you need another vet starter next season, get one in free agency. 

3. Hendricks/Graveman.  Do either have actual positive value above the money owed?  Maybe if we pickup the remainder of 2022 money?  If either can fetch a top 25... especially a young one, I think you do it.  Can always add relievers next year if you are reloading.  We need to add org depth, even if you are technically paying for it.

4.  Abreu.  If you aren't brining him back (and we shouldn't, unless you are trying to move Vaughn) he's gotta go.  Pickup the the money and get something real.  The return should probably come down to demand but I could see something useful coming back for sure.

5.  Salary Dumps:

Kelly:  I'd eat 2022 if anyone would pick up 2023.

Harrison:  the money due and he's yours.

Pollock:  half the money due and he's yours.

Leury:  I'd eat 2022, if anyone would pick up 23/24.

Yaz:  I'd eat 2022 and a few million of 23 if anyone is interested.

Guys I wouldn't trade:  Anyone you have to sell low on.  Yoan, Eloy, Gio.  The only sell high candidate I wouldn't move is ReyLo.  If he continues strong this year he will still be affordable in ARB 3 and you can roll the dice with him in the rotation next year or sell this offseason for more than he'd net right now (I think).

Trading Lynn, Hendriks and Graveman essentially punts 2023. No thanks!

[GREEDY]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Trading Lynn, Hendriks and Graveman essentially punts 2023. No thanks!

You can sign relievers this winter.  You are trading the stretch run of 2022.  

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, GREEDY said:

You can sign relievers this winter.  You are trading the stretch run of 2022.  

You’re not signing a reliever as good as Hendriks and probably not Graveman, both under control past 22. You’d also be selling Lynn at much less than peak value with 2023 control as well. I don’t see any scenario this FO punts 2023.