maxjusttyped Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Would you say that Lance Lynn can lose 1.2 mph off his fastball without it affecting his performance at all? Of course it is. I think that and the fact it's (almost certainly) tied to a knee injury that isn't going away will negatively affect his value. But just not to nearly the same degree you do, which is fine. Reasonable minds can disagree etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 minute ago, maxjusttyped said: Of course it is. I think that and the fact it's (almost certainly) tied to a knee injury that isn't going away will negatively affect his value. But just not to nearly the same degree you do, which is fine. Reasonable minds can disagree etc. But who is going to gamble on giving up anything for that at the trade deadline, with the money thrown in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Lynn is coming off major knee surgery, missed 3 months, isn’t in the best shape anyway, his fastball is down 1.2 mph over last year, he’s giving up his highest exit velocity of the statcast era, and his numbers show the results of this boiling down to an expected ERA near 4. His velocity is also not trending upwards over his first 5 games. On top of that, he’s owed $27 million for the next year and a half, whereas he was owed $9 million over 1 year when Dunning was traded for him. By the end of the year perhaps he pitches himself back to significant value, but right now both Cueto and Lynn have expected ERAs around 4 (4.08 vs 3.9) and one of them is owed $2 million while the other is owed $27 million. Lynn will currently not return anything of substantial value to the white Sox other than salary relief, certainly nothing that makes them better next year than Lynn could. Cueto won’t return a star by any stretch of the imagination, but he’s cheap enough for any team to go after him, and anything that is returned for him makes the 2023 white Sox better than the nothing they get if they hold him and he departs as a FA. Lucas might be starting to trend in the right direction, but his overall stats are genuinely bad. His expected wOBA right now is identical to where it was in 2018. Maybe by the end of the year this improves substantially as that started to happen over his 2 games prior to this last one, but I’m not giving anything of value based on those two games - again at least nothing that could have the same value to the White Sox as Lucas next year. For me that latter part is key - my goal is not to sell off this team but to try to put them in a better spot for next year. And yes please brag for us about how Craig Kimbrel is the dominant force you spent the offseason saying he was, and I was totally wrong calling him a middling reliever. Clearly I can’t scout pitching as everyone agrees that picking up his option was 100% the right move as you said all along. I would love to hear more of your discussion of why Kimbrel is awesome and that was a great move at every step just like you said. And that's the primary weakness of the Dodgers still with Kimbrel ineffective and Hudson out. Of course bringing back Kenley wouldn't have saved them either, but the Braves have a lot more pitching depth to cover for him. Edited July 11, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: And yes please brag for us about how Craig Kimbrel is the dominant force you spent the offseason saying he was, and I was totally wrong calling him a middling reliever. Clearly I can’t scout pitching as everyone agrees that picking up his option was 100% the right move as you said all along. I would love to hear more of your discussion of why Kimbrel is awesome and that was a great move at every step just like you said. Not to mention the fact the Sox took the worse contract in terms of total dollars and being stuck with Pollock for two years unless Pollock selects free agency over $12M + dollars via his player option. May as well kept Kimbrel at that point. Not to mention the fact Kimbrel was an unforced error in the first place, with his $2M buyout the only cost of separating in October. Not to mention the fact that Hahn could have had an All Star Starter in Carlos Rodon and used this money instead to salvage his ego on his "best 2021 trade deadline idea", which he converted for their 3rd Right Handed Left Fielder which Hahn tried to pawn off as a RFer, because Hahn still hasn't found a starting Right Fielder since Avasail left in 2018. Not to mention the fact Heuer was a significantly better reliever post trade than Kimbrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: Not to mention the fact the Sox took the worse contract in terms of total dollars and being stuck with Pollock for two years unless Pollock selects free agency over $12M + dollars via his player option. May as well kept Kimbrel at that point. Not to mention the fact Kimbrel was an unforced error in the first place, with his $2M buyout the only cost of separating in October. Not to mention the fact that Hahn could have had an All Star Starter in Carlos Rodon and used this money instead to salvage his ego on his "best 2021 trade deadline idea", which he converted for their 3rd Right Handed Left Fielder which Hahn tried to pawn off as a RFer, because Hahn still hasn't found a starting Right Fielder since Avasail left in 2018. Not to mention the fact Heuer was a significantly better reliever post trade than Kimbrel. Then Pollock will be provided as the reason they're not going after a big name in FA, or Oscar Colas. Rinse. Repeat. Pretty sure that Kimbrel buyout was just $1 million, too. Would have to double check at spotrac.com. Edited July 11, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 On the subject of yesterday, Lynn now has an ERA of 6.97. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) Does anyone see Jerry spending up to just below the tax in 2023 if they win, say 78 games this year? Edited July 12, 2022 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Does anyone see Jerry spending up to just below the tax in 2023 if they win, say 78 games this year? The Sox should run a promotion pledging to fire Tony La Russa and ban him for life once the club reaches 25,000 season ticket deposits (20, 40 or 81 games) for 2023. Fans can see their name listed and an online countdown after they make their pledge. Fans receive 10 Xs their moneyback in the event the club reneges and doesn't fire him or ever rehires him in any future role. Idea free of charge, Brooks! "Fire Tony, and secure your 2023 tickets today at White Sox.com" - Gene Honda, every half inning, every remaining home game plus every White Sox Television and Radio broadcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: The Sox should run a promotion pledging to fire Tony La Russa and ban him for life once the club reaches 25,000 season ticket deposits (20, 40 or 81 games) for 2023. Fans can see their name listed and an online countdown after they make their pledge. Fans receive 10 Xs their moneyback in the event the club reneges and doesn't fire him or ever rehires him in any future role. Idea free of charge, Brooks! "Fire Tony, and secure your 2023 tickets today at White Sox.com" - Gene Honda, every half inning, every remaining home game plus every White Sox Television and Radio broadcast. How many partial season tix to fire Miguel Cairo?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 minute ago, wegner said: How many partial season tix to fire Miguel Cairo?? We all know he will be Tony's replacement, and the entire remaining staff except Shelly Duncan will remain. Still worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: The Sox should run a promotion pledging to fire Tony La Russa and ban him for life once the club reaches 25,000 season ticket deposits (20, 40 or 81 games) for 2023. Fans can see their name listed and an online countdown after they make their pledge. Fans receive 10 Xs their moneyback in the event the club reneges and doesn't fire him or ever rehires him in any future role. Idea free of charge, Brooks! "Fire Tony, and secure your 2023 tickets today at White Sox.com" - Gene Honda, every half inning, every remaining home game plus every White Sox Television and Radio broadcast. Don't think that gets you even to 12,500 without significant discounting in price and a pledge not to slash payroll below $150 million...let alone another rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 This is what I'm selling. Fire LaRussa, fire Hahn. fire KW. Then have the Sox Board of Directors come out of their nursing homes and fire JR. Then have a real rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry McNertney Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 A couple of weeks ago, I thought the White Sox had to keep Cease, Kopech, Vaughn and Robert. Now, they can go too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) Maybe the goal all along was to make the team so unlikeable and expensive that the majority of Sox fans would (eventually) start to become more open-minded to yet another highly profitable rebuilding period…? Edited July 12, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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