Jack Parkman Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) Title speaks for itself. Discuss. I haven't believed for about 13 months. "this group of players" defined: Cease Kopech Giolito Moncada Eloy Robert Vaughn Edited July 9, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 The core is good enough but the supporting cast is piss poor. If you’re trying to win a World Series and this is your competitive window to do so, then why are you rostering Leury Garcia and Josh Harrison? If you’re trying to win a title, then how come team wide fundamentals (defense and base running) have been allowed to get worse year, after year? Why do Joe McEwing and Daryl Boston have jobs? And why do you have a manager who refuses to optimize the talent on the roster? I have full faith in the core (Anderson, Vaughn, Robert, Cease, Giolito, Kopech, Hendriks, and Eloy) while it may need some adjustments, I have no faith in the pieces around them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 All WAR cited are fWAR. Cease was 4.4 last season and on pace for 5.0 this year Kopech still building up endurance Giolito has had seasons of 5.2 and 4.0 Moncada has had seasons of 5.5 and 4.1 Eloy I'm less certain about Robert had a 3.4 last year This is a strong enough core to win a championship IF: 1) the coaching staff with the possible exception of pitching/bullpen is completely replaced 2) the training program improves to the point that it reduces injuries 3) the dead weight (Leury, Pollock, Kelly, Sousa, Crick) are jettisoned 4) enough talent is brought in to where Burger, Sheets and Martin can develop at AAA without having to be called up every time there's an injury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grinder Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Title speaks for itself. Discuss. I haven't believed for about 13 months. "this group of players" defined: Cease Kopech Giolito Moncada Eloy Robert Vaughn Add TLR, Hahn and the rest of the idiots and the answer is a big fat NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 The core is probably fine but obviously needs supplementing, most notably a couple good handed bats that play defense well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Is this core good enough? As is? No. I still believe that the talent can be salvaged with better coaching, but the sum of the parts still doesn't add up to a championship caliber team. And time is running short. They also can't stay on the field for long without injury. Even if JR stepped aside as chairman and an entirely new FO was put in place, I don't know how many of these guys I would want to keep. And that is no surefire answer either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 16 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said: The core is good enough but the supporting cast is piss poor. And it's particularly galling because they put a lot (too many) resources into the supporting cast. It's probably a result of the #30 farm plus the long-time preference of this FO for utility players and old veterans. But the good news is, that it shouldn't be that hard to fix (although a couple of bad contracts are in the way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 The players deserve plenty of the blame for this debacle, but I’d like to see them under a competent manager and coaching staff. And, as others have said, a better supporting cast. With those things, I’m inclined to believe in them. Continuing as is, I do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I do belive in the core. BUT they need a different leader to guide them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Just now, 2Deep said: I do belive in the core. BUT they need a different leader to guide them. The best Hail Mary the Sox could do right now is make Tony resign at the break, and hire Ozzie as an interim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Short answer: I don’t know. Long answer: try a different coaching staff. If Moncada is a bust who has lost his exit velocity, Eloy is a ground ball machine, Robert is a good player but not an MVP candidate, Vaughn hits for average but the power isn’t there because he’s looking the other way, and Giolito can’t keep things together - there’s enough pitching here to talk about the AL central or a wild card, but never hanging with the big boys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 They are good enough, they are just failures this year. And that is due to laziness, attitude, ego, the manager, and the hitting coach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I think the core is a fine start, but the organization needs an overhaul. We have seen things this year we have never seen before. Also an overall lack of concentration, lack of hustle, lack of baseball IQ that's from the players. The front office had a failure of an offseason. The manager and coaching staff make curious decisions . But I think the biggest problem is despite all of the obvious we see,( I love TA , but how many dumb mistakes can you make on the bases in a week) other than Keuchel, no one has been held accountable. Until that changes, nothing else will. Fire Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Good enough to win the World Series? Probably not. Would take a lot of luck with things going our way like ‘05. Unfortunately with the current owner that probably won’t change. But is this team talented enough to be minimum several games above .500 and securely in the playoff race? Yes 1000% and I do believe a coaching change a few weeks ago could/would have changed the season around. Unfortunately the fat lady is all but singing at this point…and the owner doesn’t care enough to fire his buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Players? Yes. Management? No. This still looks like a team that has quit or is so frustrated they can't play intelligently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 No, but I do believe in life after love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Players? Yes. Management? No. This still looks like a team that has quit or is so frustrated they can't play intelligently. Management head to toe is a disaster. From nepotism with hiring relatives and family members of staff to allow members of the coaching staff to be permanent statues on the field that are inherited from one manager to another. No other organization operates like this. Do you think the Boston Red Sox or the Dodgers hire their old manager pitching coaches son as the analytics guy because he took a Udemy course on coding? Really. This team operates like its 1975. Look at the coaches, we have some of the oldest coaches in baseball operating here. It's like the old folk's farm and the last time I checked that's not the direction modern teams are going. They don't invest in anything correctly. The method that teams have operated to be consistent winners has been to build up a strong minor league development organization. To spend on scouting and the draft including the international draft. They augment that with a few superstars and spend on that. We go the direct opposite. We have a very shallow minor league organization. Players come here not knowing how to play the game it seems. They don't know how to run the bases, catch the ball or do the fundamental things that are required for consistent winning in the majors. We then decide that a bullpen is a key to victory, so we go all-in on a bullpen. How many teams spend as we did on the bullpen with a hole at 2b and a hole in RF. Why do we have 4 DHs or more on this roster and are trying to put 1st basemen in the OF? Who does this? We dabble with retreads and spend way too much on fringe players like Leury ( who we rewarded like he was a decent starter ). We could have had a decent 2b or OF, but once again we go to the whims of TLR and build the best and most expensive bullpen in baseball because that is what he wants. Bullpen arms are transitory at best. Neal Cotts in 2005 was one of the dominant arms in the pen. Then poof nothing. There are a few arms that go year to year but its fragile at best. We don't have unlimited resources and have squandered them in horrific fashion. On the players Cease has Boras as his agent. The closer he gets to FA the more likely he is to be moved. His stuff is pure dominant ace stuff. Boras can sell this to the highest bidder if he is healthy and teams will line up for it. Kopech, their plan last year to use him in the pen was kind of dumb. He would have been better off building up into a starter last year instead of getting his first licks of major workload after surgery. But once again, this is the sox. It worked with Buerhle and Sale so of course, it must work with everyone. Robert was anointed as Mike Trout. The problem is between some injuries and it seems work ethic he is nowhere near that player. His talent level is off the charts. The only thing that will hold him back is him. Giolito is getting closer to his FA date. They won't want to walk away empty-handed. They also won't extend him for anything less than pennies on the dollar deals. Tim Anderson, another guy that JR is hoping will want to give a discount to the team for the next and final contract. Why should he do this? Edited July 9, 2022 by southsideirish71 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Knowing, that Hahn lied, straight faced, while I cried. Still I look, to find a reason to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 On paper they should be running away with the division, instead they can't even play .500 ball. Something is wrong and if I knew maybe I would be in the Sox front office. My gut feeling is that Hahn and KW know it's TLR but the last word goes to JR, somehow, someway they have to persuade JR that TLR has lost his skills as a manager and let him go, there is still time to turn this season around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 It's not all that difficult to figure out the manager is a problem. Just watch him mumble his way through a post-game press conference. And then ask yourself, if you knew nothing else, would that be a guy you would hire to help win championships? Forget the off field stuff which should have DQd him, he is in decline. Get someone who is not for the second half, and see if that helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Short answer: I don’t know. Long answer: try a different coaching staff. If Moncada is a bust who has lost his exit velocity, Eloy is a ground ball machine, Robert is a good player but not an MVP candidate, Vaughn hits for average but the power isn’t there because he’s looking the other way, and Giolito can’t keep things together - there’s enough pitching here to talk about the AL central or a wild card, but never hanging with the big boys. Co-signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 41 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: On paper they should be running away with the division, instead they can't even play .500 ball. Something is wrong and if I knew maybe I would be in the Sox front office. My gut feeling is that Hahn and KW know it's TLR but the last word goes to JR, somehow, someway they have to persuade JR that TLR has lost his skills as a manager and let him go, there is still time to turn this season around. At this point even Jerry has to know it's Tony, but he'll never fire the man who he rehired to fix "the biggest mistake of his baseball career," because not only is that admitting failure, that's hurting his BFF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Quin said: At this point even Jerry has to know it's Tony, but he'll never fire the man who he rehired to fix "the biggest mistake of his baseball career," because not only is that admitting failure, that's hurting his BFF. JR is 86 years old, quite possible the elevator isn't making it to the top floor anymore. Edited July 9, 2022 by The Mighty Mite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I haven’t read any of the posts. This may have been stated already. I’d like to see the core with a new coaching staff and a GM who is able to fill the apparent needs. None of this matters until there is new ownership, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) My opinion is that the core is good enough to make the playoffs but that's their ceiling. They'll get smoked in the WC round or ALDS. The hardest thing for a GM to do in sports is to acknowledge a playoff team isn't good enough to win a title, tear it down and start over. I have no idea why it's so hard to do when it's clear as day to the fans. Edited July 9, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.