Do You Still Believe in This Group Of Players?

[SonofaRoache]

Nit in terms of winning a title. I don't think we have any guys that will be viewed as Hall of Fame types or as top 20 players. Defense will certainly keep our guys out of that type of conversation. 

[Soxfest]

Core is partially rotten and some guys need to go.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Soxfest

[Chicago White Sox]

I think if we had a competent GM heading into the off-season and allowed him to hire his own manager and install a different offensive philosophy we’d probably be in 1st place in the Central right now.

Hahn basically lit $20M on fire when he signed Leury, Harrison, Kelly, & Velesquez this off-season.  We’d be better off with four replacement players covering their roles and using that $20M on say Schwarber.  And yes, I get that doesn’t address RF, but at least we would of had a competent LH power bat instead of relying on an unproven Sheets to be that guy.  And with Schwarber in toe, the $15M that went towards Kimbrel’s option and eventually Pollock’s salary could have been repurposed.  I won’t blame Hahn for not foreseeing a huge fall-off offensively, but our pro scouts should have known if the dude could play RF or not.  And finally, any competent GM would have acquired more pitching depth than what we started the season with.  It’s incredible this was our “priority area” coming out of the lockout and all we added was a lottery ticket swingman and a reliever who would miss at least four weeks and then be restricted for another eight.

The benefits of a different manager are obvious, so I won’t spend too much time on that.  But to be 100% candid, we are getting the worst of both worlds in Tony, who is a lifeless, uncharismatic, out-of-touch leader who also sucks at lineup construction, roster management, and in-game decision-making.  Hiring him is probably the biggest embarrassment in franchise history and we literally threw away a World Series.  No joke, I’d rather see Pito as a player manager than watch another game of Tony in charge.  Tony is like a -6 fWAR manager this season…he’s literal proof that the theory “managers don’t matter” is untrue when they are this incompetent.  Even with Hahn’s shit off-season and a plethora of injuries, we’re probably in the thick of things with any other possible manager.

Finally, I still believe there is an offensive core in place that should form the bulk of a quality offense when healthy.  Yes, more LH hitting is needed, but there is zero reason for the lack of HRs we’re seeing this year.  Outside of 2B, we have guys with enough raw power to hit 20 HRs at every other spot and yet will be lucky to finish with two 20 HR hitters.  Without question, there is something fundamentally broken with this offense and it really seems like Menechino is a big part of that.  I know, I know…hitting coaches don’t matter, but I think that’s utter bullshit.  We see other modern organizations change approaches, stances, swing planes, etc. and see drastically different results.  When an entire offense is underperforming, it’s clear that something philosophical is at play and we know Frank preaches an approach that is contact/groundball/opposite field heavy.  I have zero doubt that with a more modern hitting coach and organizational philosophy we’d have significantly more HRs and ultimately more runs.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Chicago White Sox

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think if we had a competent GM heading into the off-season and allowed him to hire his own manager and install a different offensive philosophy we’d probably be in 1st place in the Central right now.

Hahn basically lit $20M on fire when he signed Leury, Harrison, Kelly, & Velesquez this off-season.  We’d be better off with four replacement players covering their roles and using that $20M on say Schwarber.  And yes, I get that doesn’t address RF, but at least we would of had a competent LH power bat instead of relying on an unproven Sheets to be that guy.  And with Schwarber in toe, the $15M that went towards Kimbrel’s option and eventually Pollock’s salary could have been repurposed.  I won’t blame Hahn for not foreseeing a huge fall-off offensively, but our pro scouts should have known if the dude could play RF or not.  And finally, any competent GM would have acquired more pitching depth than what we started the season with.  It’s incredible this was our “priority area” coming out of the lockout and all we added was a lottery ticket swingman and a reliever who would miss at least four weeks and then be restricted for another eight.

The benefits of a different manager are obvious, so I won’t spend too much time on that.  But to be 100% candid, we are getting the worst of both worlds in Tony, who is a lifeless, uncharismatic, out-of-touch leader who also sucks at lineup construction, roster management, and in-game decision-making.  Hiring him is probably the biggest embarrassment in franchise history and we literally threw away a World Series.  No joke, I’d rather see Pito as a player manager than watch another game of Tony in charge.  Tony is like a -6 fWAR manager this season…he’s literal proof that the theory “managers don’t matter” is untrue when they are this incompetent.  Even with Hahn’s shit off-season and a plethora of injuries, we’re probably in the thick of things with any other possible manager.

Finally, I still believe there is an offensive core in place that should form the bulk of a quality offense when healthy.  Yes, more LH hitting is needed, but there is zero reason for the lack of HRs we’re seeing this year.  Outside of 2B, we have guys with enough raw power to hit 20 HRs at every other spot and yet will be lucky to finish with two 20 HR hitters.  Without question, there is something fundamentally broken with this offense and it really seems like Menechino is a big part of that.  I know, I know…hitting coaches don’t matter, but I think that’s utter bullshit.  We see other modern organizations change approaches, stances, swing planes, etc. and see drastically different results.  When an entire offense is underperforming, it’s clear that something philosophical is at play and we know Frank preaches an approach that is contact/groundball/opposite field heavy.  I have zero doubt that with a more modern hitting coach and organizational philosophy we’d have significantly more HRs and ultimately more runs.

Your paragraph on Tony is just so spot on it hurts. It’s truly unfathomable that the folks making decisions in this org just refuse to admit the mistake. 

[Dan Pasqua]

Core has a lot of talent.  Almost all you guys thought they would run away with the AL Central before the season started.  With that said certainly we also knew that Keuchel, TLR needed to go and an upgrade in right field necessary.  When we got Grandal I thought hmmm average catcher, but when we signed TLR was like WTF!!  So here we sit, with potential but no manager.  I would be very excited to get Salvador Perez when healthy to catch and call these pitchers as I'm tired of wondering why did we throw that pitch in that count and in that situation.  And I also think Ozzie or AJ P would be good 2nd half guys to replace TLR. 6 teams make the playoffs this year and anything can happen so hopefully we can get going.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Dan Pasqua

[kitekrazy]

 It's pretty hard for angry fans to take a step back and resort to kneejerk reactions as in ditching every player.  People got upset at a Stone Tweet that addressed this. 

I get the impression Hahn is #4 on the list of being in charge.  Reinsdorf hiring Tony I don't think was Hahn's choice.  There is conspiracy theory Hahn wont improve the team under Tony.

This team is lifeless and they have the personality of the manager.  It would be a bad move to change the players when it's the manager and staff that needs the change.  The Yermin incident was the turning point.  How many managers throw a player under the bus after a win?  

 While the Sox are stupid one the bases they still have the same base coaches since Ventura.     

[Boopa1219]

I would consider myself a Hahn supporter but the Sox had very clear needs going into this past offseason. They needed to reinforce the starting rotation, they needed to get more left handed, they needed to be better defensively and they had to add OBP guys on the roster.

They did none of those things

[greg775]

Today's win was the type that keeps u watching the standings at least out of the corner of your eye. Good to come back from down 2 to beat a bad Tiger team at home.

Thing is Sox are about to get smoked on the road. I say this even after their nice sweep of SFG. Sox vs, divisional teams on road is one big LOL. Some blowouts, some bullpen implosions, some defensive lapses or bad baserunning calls ... we know they are a comin'

[caulfield12]

On 7/10/2022 at 2:03 AM, SonofaRoache said:

Nit in terms of winning a title. I don't think we have any guys that will be viewed as Hall of Fame types or as top 20 players. Defense will certainly keep our guys out of that type of conversation. 

Robert is the only one with HoF potential, but not with his current non-selective hitting approach and 10-15% reduction in speed...whether it's coached or he's just being tentative but he was much better the second half last year than this year's version.

So hoping it's more psychological than physical.  It certainly is with how he approaches the wall when going back on balls.  Nothing like his 2020 form filled with numerous highlight reel plays.

Tim Anderson's the only other player on the roster on that category, with the caveat that another five plus years of productivity at SS would start to merit legit consideration.

[caulfield12]

On 7/10/2022 at 4:25 AM, kitekrazy said:

 It's pretty hard for angry fans to take a step back and resort to kneejerk reactions as in ditching every player.  People got upset at a Stone Tweet that addressed this. 

I get the impression Hahn is #4 on the list of being in charge.  Reinsdorf hiring Tony I don't think was Hahn's choice.  There is conspiracy theory Hahn wont improve the team under Tony.

This team is lifeless and they have the personality of the manager.  It would be a bad move to change the players when it's the manager and staff that needs the change.  The Yermin incident was the turning point.  How many managers throw a player under the bus after a win?  

 While the Sox are stupid one the bases they still have the same base coaches since Ventura.     

What explains the 2013~2016 inability to produce a winning team, since there was no ongoing interference at that time?

That was KW's fault, I guess.

At this point, Hahn is responsible for nothing or everything, take your pick.

How can the Twins and especially the Guardians still manage to compete with half the resources over that time?

Both those organizations, plus the Tigers for a prolonged stretch with Verlander and Cabrera, Royals from 2013-2017...have gotten the best of the White Sox for the past twenty years.

2000-2005-2008-2021 the only/notable exceptions.

 

Signed,

Thad Bosley