MiddleCoastBias Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 6 hours ago, kitekrazy said: But we could be like the pre Ohtani Angels and have just one superstar. I never understand why people make these threads. Save it for fantasy baseball. I see your reply after I posted pretty much the same thing haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said: It’s definitely fun to think about. But you are right. It’s fantasy baseball land for sure. Besides, this is too out of the box thinking for the White Sox management anyway. Plus it's pointless to spend the prospect capital for just 2 1/2 years of control unless they were willing to pony up $375-425 million for an extension. That would only be 5-6x larger than the Grandal deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 13 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Eloy has extremely low value in a trade, practically none. He's due $26 million over the next 2 seasons, and if he hits better he does have option years - but they're $16.5 and $18.5 million option years so the upside is limited. Youv'e got a guy with 2.5 years of guaranteed money, who is due a guaranteed $30 million minimum, who has two major injuries the last 2 seasons, and a total of 0.5 rWAR over that time. There's just not trade value here, especially not to a rebuilding team. Thank you for providing the financial and on-field value of Eloy. It’s ridiculously low right now with all of his injuries. It’s more proof that the White Sox simply don’t have enough prospect/ young player capital to execute such move. Most teams don’t. The only thing that caught my attention about this Soto thing is the looming sale of the Nationals. It might be more challenging to sell a franchise with a $400 million contract on the books.. The Marlins pretty much gave Stanton away to get his contract off the books. Perhaps the Nationals will attempt to gut another teams farm system before they lose him for nothing in 2025? Or perhaps they simply hold onto him and hope new ownership Is willing to give him a record $400+ million deal.. Only time will tell. But Juan Soto will never wear a White Sox uniform. Sadly… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, soxfan49 said: There is no way that's what it would take It would be more like Montgomery, Colas, Sosa, Kopech and Vaughn It would also take an owner who would give out a deal like that which the Sox *checks notes* do not have It's really pointless for me to dispute all that you seem to think it would take for 2.5 yrs of Soto but you're giving up 26+ years, 3 of our best position prospect players,all up the middle types and 2 MLB players who have a lot of time and quality players too. That's way too much. Edited July 10, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) An interesting opportunity to wonder what they would actually pay a player, and for whom. I tend to believe the Sox poison-pilled their own offer to Machado. And were never intending to put themselves in position to win for Bryce Harper at market value. 400 million ffs gtfoh. This is the franchise Kenny Williams once said way back in the day would never pay a player more than 10 million a year. Kenny has had to let reality hit him in the face since. But that attitude still prevails. Prior to this rebuild, I had wondered if the Sox would ever build around young high upside type talent because they would never pay market value when it came time to. They have been working around that with their early offer technique in order to avoid the market. (which interestingly has not been copied around the league as SM suggests). But if the Sox ever have to play on that stage for real, I would expect a trade or a weird losing offer before they actually paid up. Gonna be interesing. Edited July 10, 2022 by Chick Mercedes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 If I was a Nats fan I’d probably laugh at sox thinking they would have enough…maybe if they pre emotively trade Giolito in a 3 team. Few teams would have the fire power. Maybe I’d want Red Sox (Mayer headliner) or Cards (Gorman/Walker or Liberatore). The white Sox would never seriously go after premiere talent, But yes you should do everything to get guys like this when available. Just like they should have for Betts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) You would have better odds on formulating how to marry victoria secret supermodels than the white sox picking up Soto. Edited July 10, 2022 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 I absolutely agree that if you traded for a top 3 player that this team would be way better 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 22 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said: You would have better odds on formulating how to marry victoria secret supermodels than the white sox picking up Soto. Step 1: Find all of the supermodels who live in the state of Utah. Step 2: Integrate yourself as a member of a Morom based cult. Step 3: Overtake the leadership of said cult and become “The Master.” Step 4: Invite all of the supermodels identified in Step 1 to live with you denoting them as “Chosen One’s.” Step 5: Describe to them it is their duty to conceive your children. Step 6: Marry them all. There, that was easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 38 minutes ago, bmags said: If I was a Nats fan I’d probably laugh at sox thinking they would have enough…maybe if they pre emotively trade Giolito in a 3 team. Few teams would have the fire power. Maybe I’d want Red Sox (Mayer headliner) or Cards (Gorman/Walker or Liberatore). The white Sox would never seriously go after premiere talent, But yes you should do everything to get guys like this when available. Just like they should have for Betts. Not even trying for Mookie is so dumb. He's such a good player that it should have been no choice to at least try. Granted, going toe to toe with the Dodgers when they want a player is pretty much always a losing proposition, but I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Does McGuire have options left? Seby wuld have to clear waivers to be sent back. That would seem unlikely at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 40 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said: You would have better odds on formulating how to marry victoria secret supermodels than the white sox picking up Soto. “Hey, that’s what I do during the game.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 14 minutes ago, hi8is said: Step 1: Find all of the supermodels who live in the state of Utah. Step 2: Integrate yourself as a member of a Morom based cult. Step 3: Overtake the leadership of said cult and become “The Master.” Step 4: Invite all of the supermodels identified in Step 1 to live with you denoting them as “Chosen One’s.” Step 5: Describe to them it is their duty to conceive your children. Step 6: Marry them all. There, that was easy. Becoming a fashion photographer seems an easier, albeit slimier route. Or modeling agency/pageant organizer like a certain political family. Celebrity or “socially-influencer” enough to be connected to such individuals (in the 60’s through 90’s it would be having enough of a cultural footprint to get invited to the Playboy Mansion). Or simply become a billionaire. All easy routes, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: It's really pointless for me to dispute all that you seem to think it would take for 2.5 yrs of Soto but you're giving up 26+ years, 3 of our best position prospect players,all up the middle types and 2 MLB players who have a lot of time and quality players too. That's way too much. Which is why it won't happen. That would be and should be Washington's asking price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 21 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: The problem is the Sox don't have a chance to trade for Soto. It would take Cease or Kopech to headline to beat out everyone else. Probably both along with Montgomery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 I love these type of threads. Win two in a row and lets roll! When we traded Sale we got the (former?) #1 prospect in baseball and Kopech who was what at the time ... top 30? Seeing as we have Colson clocking in at #99? Ya, it's not happening. if all 30 teams put together an offer with minor leaguers ... we'd likely be a bottom 5 offer. The way it'd work, and the only way it'd work ... is if the Sox decided to take on Strasburg contract, Corbin contract, etc. and then also probably give up a piece like Vaughn + Colson. Theoretically that may be worth it to them. that said they are not a cheap franchise and thus clearing a bad contract v. getting actual prospects (multiple projectable ones)? They're taking the prospects every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 45 minutes ago, he gone. said: I love these type of threads. Win two in a row and lets roll! When we traded Sale we got the (former?) #1 prospect in baseball and Kopech who was what at the time ... top 30? Seeing as we have Colson clocking in at #99? Ya, it's not happening. if all 30 teams put together an offer with minor leaguers ... we'd likely be a bottom 5 offer. The way it'd work, and the only way it'd work ... is if the Sox decided to take on Strasburg contract, Corbin contract, etc. and then also probably give up a piece like Vaughn + Colson. Theoretically that may be worth it to them. that said they are not a cheap franchise and thus clearing a bad contract v. getting actual prospects (multiple projectable ones)? They're taking the prospects every day. I know you're only trying to make a point and not actually suggesting that this WILL work, but it won't. The Nats are far enough out in their rebuild that they shouldn't want to diminish the return they can get for Soto just by getting rid of some bad contracts too. They should be in a position to max their return for him with as many prospects as possible, and ride out the contracts. Added to that, if any team is in a position to take on a bad contract to make a deal like that, it isn't us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 The sox don't have the high end talent to make that trade. Sure, in theory they would have the depth to make the trade but there is a reason why those 7 for 1 trades that some fans propose do not happen: Minor league roster spots a limited too and the supply if 40 fv prospects is pretty big, so if you would lets say take on 10 40fv prospects, you would need to release some of your 40s to make room for them. There kind of is a minor league replacement level too and there essentially is an unlimited supply of players of that level. So if minor league replacement level is maybe like a 35 fv then getting 10 40s on your roster is only providing marginal extra value. Because of that those quantity for quality trades rarely if ever do happen, the Nats don't have a great system but they have those roster spots occupied and if the incoming guy is not better than the existing guy his value is essentially zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said: The sox don't have the high end talent to make that trade. Sure, in theory they would have the depth to make the trade but there is a reason why those 7 for 1 trades that some fans propose do not happen: Minor league roster spots a limited too and the supply if 40 fv prospects is pretty big, so if you would lets say take on 10 40fv prospects, you would need to release some of your 40s to make room for them. There kind of is a minor league replacement level too and there essentially is an unlimited supply of players of that level. So if minor league replacement level is maybe like a 35 fv then getting 10 40s on your roster is only providing marginal extra value. Because of that those quantity for quality trades rarely if ever do happen, the Nats don't have a great system but they have those roster spots occupied and if the incoming guy is not better than the existing guy his value is essentially zero. Except 35 to 40 EV players are not what the Nationals are going to be getting back in return. It will be 3-4 players with much higher predictability/EV’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted July 11, 2022 Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Except 35 to 40 EV players are not what the Nationals are going to be getting back in return. It will be 3-4 players with much higher predictability/EV’s. Yes. I haven’t looked, but I doubt there are really any teams that could offer his actual value in prospect capital, that seems insane to me. And then I doubt the rebuilding clubs with the most quality prospect capital really want to trade all of it for 1 superstar getting close to free agency. And THEN the only teams that would trade for him would have to be willing to dish out a $400M contract. This isn’t a normal situation. The Nats can’t cash their lottery ticket for what it’s worth. Maybe Colson, Sosa, Burger, Giolito (so they can cash him in next year for more top prospects) would get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 26 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Except 35 to 40 EV players are not what the Nationals are going to be getting back in return. It will be 3-4 players with much higher predictability/EV’s. Sure, my comment was directed at that comment which said "I would trade the entire sox farm system for soto. Apart from the sox not having a farm system anymore this would also mean the nats would have to release like 100 minor leaguers to make room for the system of the sox:). That's why the sox have no chance to trade for soto, because their best prospects are only like 45s or so currently and the nats would want at least a 55 as a headliner. Montgomery might turn into a 55 but I don't think he is valued like that already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Jerksticks said: Yes. I haven’t looked, but I doubt there are really any teams that could offer his actual value in prospect capital, that seems insane to me. And then I doubt the rebuilding clubs with the most quality prospect capital really want to trade all of it for 1 superstar getting close to free agency. And THEN the only teams that would trade for him would have to be willing to dish out a $400M contract. This isn’t a normal situation. The Nats can’t cash their lottery ticket for what it’s worth. Maybe Colson, Sosa, Burger, Giolito (so they can cash him in next year for more top prospects) would get it done. The rarity of a player like this being available overrides all sanity. They will both give up tons for him, and will throw a truckload of money at him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 16 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said: I know you're only trying to make a point and not actually suggesting that this WILL work, but it won't. The Nats are far enough out in their rebuild that they shouldn't want to diminish the return they can get for Soto just by getting rid of some bad contracts too. They should be in a position to max their return for him with as many prospects as possible, and ride out the contracts. Added to that, if any team is in a position to take on a bad contract to make a deal like that, it isn't us. yep. agree all around. that's why i put that next line saying they're not a cheap franchise. They've cleared all contracts except those two. they'll eat 70mm a year for a few years gladly because they care about winning. sox would also never offer a deal like that because we don't like spending money so to add corbin PLUS a soto PLUS extend him? its laughable. all around we stand like 27th out of 30th in a trade partner for soto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 hour ago, he gone. said: yep. agree all around. that's why i put that next line saying they're not a cheap franchise. They've cleared all contracts except those two. they'll eat 70mm a year for a few years gladly because they care about winning. sox would also never offer a deal like that because we don't like spending money so to add corbin PLUS a soto PLUS extend him? its laughable. all around we stand like 27th out of 30th in a trade partner for soto Disagree here. Market really is constrained for trades a bit. Who could use Juan Soto? Everyone. Who is in position to benefit from paying for him for the next 2 years? Fewer, the Royals / As are, for example, not likely to trade out for him. So you'd narrow it down a bit. The Orioles could trump everyone with with Henderson/Rodriguez...just really hard to believe. I'd say teams that would seriously check-in would be: Padres Rays Red Sox Yankees Cardinals Brewers Twins Tigers Mets Phillies Mariners Dodgers Giants Rangers Braves Jays Cubs Astros White Sox Of that list, I'd say teams that feel out there would be Cubs. Twins unlikely to lock him up (have buxton), Cubs too far from competition. Seems extremely unlikely Nats would trade within their division, so out go Mets/Braves/Phils/Marlins, among other reasons. Orioles could easily get Soto but it's really hard to imagine them doing that so I left them out. So That leaves us with: Padres Red Sox Yankees Cardinals Brewers Twins Tigers Mariners Dodgers Giants Jays Astros White Sox Now, this is where we say "no way padres can afford x". And it seems extremely true, but...they may also get most value out of soto during just his contract remainder, and maybe make that work. Also have a huge need for a Soto. So my top contender: Cardinals (6 in the top 100, budget to flex, division ready for the taking) Next group: Red Sox, Padres, Dodgers, Red sox use Marcelo Mayer/Bello. Padres can dangle Abrams/Hassel. Dodgers have seven effing top 100 guys. Giants Maybe luciano/harrison gets it done, and brings Giants the superstar they've lacked. Have the talent, questionable fit: Yankees Rays Tigers - obviously putting Greene forward gets you in the convo. Hard to believe though. I say no chance. Jays - having the top guy being a catcher hurts...also just why Not a lot of talent to offer, but would be interested White Sox, Astros, Mariners, Brewers so I'd put sox at like a decent top 8. Definitely need a 3rd team to make it work though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 If there's one guy out there that fits the Sox it's Ian Happ. No idea what the Cubs would want for him but he's a free agent in 2024. He walks a decent amount plays OF and 2nd and 3rd base in a pinch. One thing he hasn't done in 2022 is play RF but he has played it sparingly in his career. He has lowered his K rate significantly to make better contact. It's hurt his power but he still has 8 HR's. Of course the Sox are already a bit crowded in the OF and they might have to give up Sheets if the Cubs even wanted him and he's meant a lot to Sox wins lately. Basically with Happ you're getting better defense , more speed, more versatility, probably less power than Sheets but a more consistent bat unless whatever changes Sheets has made recently stick. Obviously you're not getting the years from Happ you get from Sheets. Plus Happ is pretty good against LHP too and can steal a base every so often. Of course the Cubs may be more interested in someone like Sosa. You can put Happ out there every day against all pitching. He play almost as much as Abreu , just 14 less PA. He's a switch hitter, better from the left side but above average from the right side too. 2.1 FWAR, 128wRC+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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