If the Sox trade for Juan Soto we have a chance.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

I wish we could add polls mid thread.

Interested to know a breakdown of the thought process of:

- I would like the white sox to go after Juan Soto because it is a rare opportunity and he would make a difference (even if I'm aware it is unlikely and jerry does not sign $500mill checks)
- I do not want the white sox to go after Soto because if the sox will get fleeced
- I do not want the white sox to go after Soto because it isn't a good idea
- I feel a need to say it isn't going to happen and need to have an option or else I will just write it out over and over again as if it is very compelling.

I actually would vote for the last one but it's still fun to think about. 

[ChiSox59]

15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Or on the flip side waiting for a bad fielder to suddenly stop getting injured just to end up being a permanent DH or 1st baseman while we pay him just might be worth getting rid of while anyone has interest in him. Potential future value of Eloy be damned. Dump him and the money owed to him before it's too late.

He's not really owned that much $.  $12M AAV over 23 and 24 with two additional team options.  I'd happily roll the dice on him staying healthy for htat price tag as opposed to dumping him for next to nothing.  $12M is mice nuts in today's game. 

He should - as i've been saying for over a year now - be the primary DH, tho.  Fuck his feelings.  He hasn't earned the ability to choose where he plays. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by ChiSox59

[South Side Fireworks Man]

26 minutes ago, bmags said:

I am incredibly pro going after Soto but I just don't see the point if you trade vaughn. Absolutely try to parlay Eloy into parts for Soto, but Vaughn? The point of going all in for soto is not to tread water.

The problem is who would want Eloy?  Eloy and Yoan were supposed to be two key pieces of their young championship core and at the ages of 25 & 27 respectively they can't even get anything worthwhile for them.  

Edited July 20, 2022 by South Side Fireworks Man

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

I wish we could add polls mid thread.

Interested to know a breakdown of the thought process of:

- I would like the white sox to go after Juan Soto because it is a rare opportunity and he would make a difference (even if I'm aware it is unlikely and jerry does not sign $500mill checks)
- I do not want the white sox to go after Soto because if the sox will get fleeced
- I do not want the white sox to go after Soto because it isn't a good idea
- I feel a need to say it isn't going to happen and need to have an option or else I will just write it out over and over again as if it is very compelling.

I am in Camp Our Window is only 2-3 More Years, and This is our Big Chance.

[T R U]

I like Andrew Vaughn and think hes going to be a real nice player, but hes a glaring odd man out in the current roster and payroll commitment construction.

We are stuck with Eloy, Pollock, and Grandal next season. That's an OF, C and DH spot.

Abreu most likely comes back with the way hes playing. You see him in the dugout, he doesn't look like someone who is ready to call it a career. Still have Sheets who they obviously love. That's a 1B and DH spot.

Assume you are planning out your team with Juan Soto on it.

DH is open, LF is open, Robert in CF, Soto in RF, Abreu at 1B

Now you still have to find places to play Vaughn, Eloy, Sheets, Pollock, and Grandal and there's only LF and DH open.

Currently constructed, Vaughn has no locked position and could realistically be used in a Soto trade. Its not that I don't like or want to guy, its just a great match up.

Rick Hahn is also trying to keep a job, and there isn't much more dangerous than a GM trying to keep his job. Look at what Bill O'Brien did to the Texans, woof.

Edited July 20, 2022 by T R U
Forgot Eloy

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

He's not really owned that much $.  $12M AAV over 23 and 24 with two additional team options.  I'd happily roll the dice on him staying healthy for htat price tag as opposed to dumping him for next to nothing.  $12M is mice nuts in today's game. 

I know the contract isn't that much but it is if he continues to be who he is. The Sox don't need him now and they won't need him for the next 2.5 years if he gets you Soto . It might also allow you to keep Vaughn if Eloy, Montgomery, Colas and Davis Martin can get you Soto. AT least you save some money with that trade and the constant throbbing headache of his many deaths.

Edited July 20, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

Just now, T R U said:

I like Andrew Vaughn and think hes going to be a real nice player, but hes a glaring odd man out in the current roster and payroll commitment construction.

We are stuck with Eloy, Pollock, and Grandal next season. That's an OF, C and DH spot.

Abreu most likely comes back with the way hes playing. You see him in the dugout, he doesn't look like someone who is ready to call it a career. Still have Sheets who they obviously love. That's a 1B and DH spot.

Assume you are planning out your team with Juan Soto on it.

LF is open, Robert in CF, Soto in RF, Abreu at 1B

Now you still have to find places to play Vaughn, Sheets, Pollock, and Grandal and there's only LF and DH open.

Currently constructed, Vaughn has no locked position and could realistically be used in a Soto trade. Its not that I don't like or want to guy, its just a great match up.

Rick Hahn is also trying to keep a job, and there isn't much more dangerous than a GM trying to keep his job. Look at what Bill O'Brien did to the Texans, woof.

Again, I LOVE Andrew Vaughn.  He is going to be a Paul Konerko type hitter where he just puts up year after year of great stats.  But if we can use AV to get someone like Juan Soto or similar to both improve the OF and rebalance out the line up to more left handed, I am in.  I would also be willing to listen on AV for a true ace.

[hogan873]

27 minutes ago, T R U said:

White Sox Get: Juan Soto and Patrick Corbin

Nationals Get: Lance Lynn, Andrew Vaughn, Colson Montgomery, Lenyn Sosa, and Norge Vera

I think that's giving up too much to also take on the salary of Corbin.

[hogan873]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am in Camp Our Window is only 2-3 More Years, and This is our Big Chance.

I think this is the key argument here.  Adding Soto really improves the team for the next couple years, especially if you hold on to Vaughn.  The Sox have the pieces, but how big of a package would the Sox be willing to offer?

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am in Camp Our Window is only 2-3 More Years, and This is our Big Chance.

Same. 

The big thing is that if there's a team willing to pay Soto $500M, the Sox can't compete with that kind of package. 

Ideally, you keep Vaughn and Kopech and build something around Eloy and Montgomery. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

The problem is who would want Eloy?  Eloy and Yoan were supposed to be two key pieces of their young championship core and at the ages of 25 & 27 respectively they can't even get anything worthwhile for them.  

Eloy is completely cost controlled. His options are team options and he never has an annual cost that exceeds AJ Pollock. He was still a league average hitter last year and still has potential someone will bet on out of a team that preaches ground balls.

I would say a team like the giants would go after Eloy. I could see the Rangers going after Eloy. Red sox. Orioles.

Could they get Kyle Harrison + Patrick Bailey for eloy? I think so, and that adds a top 100 guy, a former first round pick rehab project, and opens up an outfield spot for Pollock/Vaughn.

[KrankinSox]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Same. 

The big thing is that if there's a team willing to pay Soto $500M, the Sox can't compete with that kind of package. 

Ideally, you keep Vaughn and Kopech and build something around Eloy and Montgomery. 

The contract extension for Soto does not play in to the trade package.

[T R U]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Same. 

The big thing is that if there's a team willing to pay Soto $500M, the Sox can't compete with that kind of package. 

Ideally, you keep Vaughn and Kopech and build something around Eloy and Montgomery. 

Eloy cant stay healthy and isn't producing. He's also owed $24 million between 2023/2024. He has more value to the Sox hoping he turns it around then trading him.

If you're trading a superstar, you aren't looking to get a reclamation project in return.

[bmags]

Jesus I meant Harrison, Bailey +

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, T R U said:

I like Andrew Vaughn and think hes going to be a real nice player, but hes a glaring odd man out in the current roster and payroll commitment construction.

We are stuck with Eloy, Pollock, and Grandal next season. That's an OF, C and DH spot.

Abreu most likely comes back with the way hes playing. You see him in the dugout, he doesn't look like someone who is ready to call it a career. Still have Sheets who they obviously love. That's a 1B and DH spot.

Assume you are planning out your team with Juan Soto on it.

LF is open, Robert in CF, Soto in RF, Abreu at 1B

Now you still have to find places to play Vaughn, Eloy, Sheets, Pollock, and Grandal and there's only LF and DH open.

Currently constructed, Vaughn has no locked position and could realistically be used in a Soto trade. Its not that I don't like or want to guy, its just a great match up.

Rick Hahn is also trying to keep a job, and there isn't much more dangerous than a GM trying to keep his job. Look at what Bill O'Brien did to the Texans, woof.

Thinking too much. You don't worry about Eloy and Sheets right now. They are nothing burgers and as likely to be involved in upcoming trades as they are to stay with the Sox .If the Sox can't get Soto with the following players to choose from then they won't get him: Eloy,Sheets, Burger, Davis Martin, Montgomery, Colas, Sosa, Crochet and basically any other minor league guys the Nats want. Vaughn could be left out of the equation. Trade 7 guys  for all I care , a mix of quantity and quality.

[bmags]

Basically gets you to bidding of Montgomery, Vera, Harrison, Bailey, Colas OR Mario Camilletti

You've subtracted $12 million. Can you trade now for Corbin too? That gets you closer. Not there. I think you probably need a better trade than I got you from Eloy haha

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

Eloy is completely cost controlled. His options are team options and he never has an annual cost that exceeds AJ Pollock. He was still a league average hitter last year and still has potential someone will bet on out of a team that preaches ground balls.

I would say a team like the giants would go after Eloy. I could see the Rangers going after Eloy. Red sox. Orioles.

Could they get Kyle Harrison + Patrick Bailey for eloy? I think so, and that adds a top 100 guy, a former first round pick rehab project, and opens up an outfield spot for Pollock/Vaughn.

Eloy for Martin Perez !! Who says no ?

[DirtySox]

From Bowden's Athletic piece.

https://theathletic.com/3435069/2022/07/20/juan-soto-mlb-trade-market/

Quote

AL Central
White Sox — The White Sox could start the conversation with either outfielder Eloy Jiménez or outfielder/first baseman Andrew Vaughn, then offer one of their top shortstop prospects, Colson Montgomery or Jose Rodriguez, along with an outfield prospect such as Yoelqui Céspedes or Oscar Colas and a pitching prospect like Anderson Severino or Jason Bilous.

Why yes, I would trade Eloy, Yoelqui, Jose Rodriguez, and Anderson Severino for Juan Soto. ?

[hogan873]

5 minutes ago, KrankinSox said:

The contract extension for Soto does not play in to the trade package.

Right.  Technically, whoever he plays for when he becomes a free agent will have the first shot, but he's going to test free agency.  Unless he ends up with the Yankees or Dodgers and they offer him an insane amount of money to extend...which could happen.  If he, by some miracle, ends up with the Sox, they will not have a chance at signing him.

[bmags]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Eloy for Martin Perez !! Who says no ?

I would say no, but my grand plan is not to trade eloy but instead Giolito and then go after Perez, in the hopes we sign a pitcher in 2022-3 class which looks great.

And trade Giolito + for pieces to get Soto, and then trading Eloy to get Perez all feels like too much of a shakeup. But if sox go to Giolito and say this is our best long-term offer, and he declines, you can then trade him. I mean...I'd trade him to the Mariners.

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

From Bowden's Athletic piece.

https://theathletic.com/3435069/2022/07/20/juan-soto-mlb-trade-market/

Why yes, I would trade Eloy, Yoelqui, Jose Rodriguez, and Anderson Severino for Juan Soto. ?

You can't give up Popeye, he's our future

[T R U]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Thinking too much. You don't worry about Eloy and Sheets right now. They are nothing burgers and as likely to be involved in upcoming trades as they are to stay with the Sox .If the Sox can't get Soto with the following players to choose from then they won't get him: Eloy,Sheets, Burger, Davis Martin, Montgomery, Colas, Sosa, Crochet and basically any other minor league guys the Nats want. Vaughn could be left out of the equation. Trade 7 guys  for all I care , a mix of quantity and quality.

Eloy, Sheets, Burger, Martin are probably worth nothing to the Nationals as primary pcs. of a trade.

Colas, Sosa, and Crochet are probably additional pcs. of a trade.

Montgomery is the only one you named that probably holds weight in a deal.

If the Nationals weren't demanding one of Vaughn or Kopech in a deal, then they are run worse than the White Sox.

Edited July 20, 2022 by T R U
Spelling

[JoeCredeYes]

Just now, hogan873 said:

Right.  Technically, whoever he plays for when he becomes a free agent will have the first shot, but he's going to test free agency.  Unless he ends up with the Yankees or Dodgers and they offer him an insane amount of money to extend...which could happen.  If he, by some miracle, ends up with the Sox, they will not have a chance at signing him.

With the Judge situation I'm very curious if they will try to acquire Soto now and get a bigger return than a comp pick for Judge, potentially in a 3 team deal.  Boras could still make him test FA, but they'd be able to negotiate and offer him the world before he does.  Just not sure the Yanks are crazy enough to pull that off while they're firing on all cylinders this year, but it just feels like they're holding out for Soto to spend the next 15 years peppering that short porch.  

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

With the Judge situation I'm very curious if they will try to acquire Soto now and get a bigger return than a comp pick for Judge, potentially in a 3 team deal.  Boras could still make him test FA, but they'd be able to negotiate and offer him the world before he does.  Just not sure the Yanks are crazy enough to pull that off while they're firing on all cylinders this year, but it just feels like they're holding out for Soto to spend the next 15 years peppering that short porch.  

This is what I think is going to happen. Soto will be a Yankee. 

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

Right.  Technically, whoever he plays for when he becomes a free agent will have the first shot, but he's going to test free agency.  Unless he ends up with the Yankees or Dodgers and they offer him an insane amount of money to extend...which could happen.  If he, by some miracle, ends up with the Sox, they will not have a chance at signing him.

I remember same was said about Betts. "He's testing FA no matter what!"

We know what Soto wants. He just turned down an offer to get the most guaranteed money of all time. He said no.

He wants guaranteed money + highest AAV. He wants precedent. Boras wants precedent.
You give him 13 years $475 gives you 36.5 Mill / yr and highest guarantees ever. It doesn't beat Scherzer but we know that.

Does that get it done? You may need to go to 13 years $500 mill ($38 mill). That gives you the WOW round number. That gives you the highest position player AV. I guarantee he doesn't turn that down and goes for FA with 2 years riding on health.