CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Vaughn's value is severely diminished on the Sox because he's forced into the OF. Abreu isn't going anywhere while he's still producing. Grandal will probably have to DH next year. His value is staying on the field and hitting well. We've seen value diminish with a guy like Eloy. I'll take the value Vaughn provides the Sox right now. The best ability is availability. He's improved so much from last year. Hopefully it's just the beginning of his hitting improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: This entire thread, in all reality, is nothing but mental masturbation. The Sox can't match the farms and won't match the pocket books of other teams. Jerry wouldn't sign off on acquiring Corbin anyway. He wouldn't take Willis for Miggy. What makes you think this is any different? There's good chance Corbin isn't in a deal for Soto. Why would the Nats want to diminish the return in prospects even eating a bit of the money ? No one should bail them out . It could happen but I'm pegging it as unlikely. Corbin is like an approx $70M (money owed this year and the remainder of his contract) version of Keuchel only a couple of years younger. He can't throw strikes and when he does he gets lit up like fireworks on the 4th of July. Even if they eat half the salary plus what you end up playing Soto for the next 2.5 years that's approximately $40+M per year for Soto since Corbin is essentially unplayable for a contender plus prospect capital. Edited July 20, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: There's good chance Corbin isn't in a deal for Soto. Why would the Nats want to diminish the return in prospects even eating a bit of the money owed to one of those 2 ? No one should bail them out . It could happen but I'm pegging it as unlikely. Corbin is like an approx $70M (money owed this year and the remainder of his contract) version of Keuchel only a couple of years younger. He can't throw strikes and when he does he gets lit up like fireworks on the 4th of July. Even if they eat half the salary plus what you end up playing Soto for the next 2.5 years that's approximately $40+M per year for Soto since Corbin is essentially unplayable for a contender plus prospect capital. Look at the Miggy/Willis deal for a comp. Marlins still got good prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Look at the Miggy/Willis deal for a comp. Marlins still got good prospects. Ancient history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Look at the Miggy/Willis deal for a comp. Marlins still got good prospects. The Dodgers also took back David Price when trading for Mookie Betts. The prospect haul wasn't nearly as good, however, because Mookie had 1 year of team control left rather than 2 & 1/2 like Soto does now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 minute ago, maxjusttyped said: The Dodgers also took back David Price when trading for Mookie Betts. The prospect haul wasn't nearly as good, however, because Mookie had 1 year of team control left rather than 2 & 1/2 like Soto does now. Also a good comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said: The Dodgers also took back David Price when trading for Mookie Betts. The prospect haul wasn't nearly as good, however, because Mookie had 1 year of team control left rather than 2 & 1/2 like Soto does now. Corbin has the same 2.5 yrs as Soto and his last 2 years are $60M + whatever the prorated rate of this years salary would be on his $23.4M he's getting this year . Unsure what the Luxury Tax salary would be going forward. Price was a useful piece. Corbin is not. He's racking up negative WAR quickly. Edited July 20, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: This entire board, in all reality, is nothing but mental masturbation. FIFY. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 minute ago, 35thstreetswarm said: FIFY. You're not wrong lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Haven’t we all learned from watching Trout and Ohtani? Does Soto even guarantee a playoff team these next three years when you’re already having to replace Giolito and Tim Anderson after 2023 and 2024…assuming you don’t trade Montgomery, he’s your rookie SS that final Soto season, if not earlier. You have the worst prospects after 2024 of any team in baseball…looking at repeating 2016-2019 all over again. And one of the oldest and smallest stadiums in baseball in terms of generating revenue. Besides the fact the primary way this all works is if Abreu doesn’t regress, Lynn suddenly returns to 2019-21 form, Cease and/or Kopech stay healthy, Grandal returns to form, Hendriks/Graveman/Kelly/Lopez stay healthy, Robert and/or Moncada are close to superstars and you can somehow solve the Eloy/Vaughn/Pollock logjam. There’s just way too many variables for Soto (assuming full health) to override all that. And it’s not like Soto is accruing tons of value for his defense or baserunning. It would have been ten times more logical to simply sign Harper when they had the opportunity and there was no prospect cost nor ticking clock of when he was going to leave as well. The White Sox name is only thrown in there to generate fan interest. Bait and switch. Rinse and repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, hi8is said: Gotta get a LH outfielder via trade since we always seem to lose out in FA. It’s not like Dye and Pods and Contreras and AJ and Hermanson were at peak value in 2004-05, either. Garcia was the only one who could be characterized this way. Risk/reward. Opportunity cost. Edited July 20, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Dye and Pods and Contreras and AJ I liked all of these moves when they happened for multiple reasons but mainly because we were retooling… not at the tail end of a rebuild looking to shove. Also don’t like all the uncertainties of Conforto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Adding Juan Soto to the Sox makes us the angels got it. What are we now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 36 minutes ago, bmags said: Adding Juan Soto to the Sox makes us the angels got it. What are we now? Realistically explain how the White Sox compete on a $200 million payroll this year or next with Vaughn subtracted and Soto’s $17 million added…not to mention massive arbitration increases the next two years. Everyone’s acting like teams are lining up to take Eloy, Lynn, Pollock, Jimenez, etc., off their hands…not to mention Grandal, Kelly and Leury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Wait a second why is Vaughn gone now and why are they trading all those other guys too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, hi8is said: Sure would have been nice for Hahn to sign that fucker like we all wanted. ? I don’t think ANYONE in the front office even once dreamed Schwarber or Castellanos. If they had, we wouldn’t have gotten stuck with Pollock/Eloy/Vaughn/Sheets in the outfield. If Schwarber was the plan from the beginning, they never would have exercised the Kimbrel option in the first place. Edited July 21, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: Wait a second why is Vaughn gone now and why are they trading all those other guys too? Because trading for Soto assumes a bump in payroll into the $205-210 million range…based on what he will get in arbitration next year. And because there’s no palatable trade package that works without Vaughn going to Washington. If they’re selling that franchise, they’ll need something they can actually sell to a prospective owner as well as the fanbase, rather than players that are still 2-3 years away from the big leagues. They have scouted Jimenez exhaustively enough to know that he’s too risky as a centerpiece when the foundation for any hitter is the lower body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Because trading for Soto assumes a bump in payroll into the $205-210 million range…based on what he will get in arbitration next year. And because there’s no palatable trade package that works without Vaughn going to Washington. If they’re selling that franchise, they’ll need something they can actually sell to a prospective owner as well as the fanbase, rather than players that are still 2-3 years away from the big leagues. They have scouted Jimenez exhaustively enough to know that he’s too risky as a centerpiece when the foundation for any hitter is the lower body. So trading for Soto, to you, necessitates a rebuild. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Because trading for Soto assumes a bump in payroll into the $205-210 million range…based on what he will get in arbitration next year. And because there’s no palatable trade package that works without Vaughn going to Washington. If they’re selling that franchise, they’ll need something they can actually sell to a prospective owner as well as the fanbase, rather than players that are still 2-3 years away from the big leagues. They have scouted Jimenez exhaustively enough to know that he’s too risky as a centerpiece when the foundation for any hitter is the lower body. Sox are going down as the tigers and the rest of the division rises is that it ? The Nats want best value and they have to ascertain if the can work out a package that includes getting rid of Corbin or keeping him for the best return. It's not The GM's job to worry about who they sell the team to when he may be the 1st one fired regardless of any trades he makes . Eloy is not a centerpiece. If you put Montgomery and Colas in a package with him , that's a foundation for a trade. Why you take Eloy ? A rebuild will take enough time that a patient team can take on Eloy , work very closely on ways to keep him healthy. If he can put up one full season of 35 HR's and hit .300 they got themselves another decent trade piece. And it can happen as early as next season. Eloy is not currently dead. He's not a pitcher you have to wait a year on to return from TJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 The only thing I'll say is. If they are going to go nuts and offer a Vaughn, Kopech, Montgomery +++ package....or whatever it takes. Fine do it. But do it with the intention of offering him his 500 mil request for a contract extension. If ever there is a player worth JR's 1/4 century spending splurge, Juan Soto is the guy. And if you do trade Kopech, you better have a plan to get a good starter in here at the deadline. Because I already an skeptical that the Sox have the rotation to win a World Series, and they definitely don't if Kopech gets moved. So you'd need to save a few of the prospects for a 2nd deal for a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 What are you talking about Caulfield? We have potential all stars at almost every position including pitching. How is that in any way similar to having Trout, Ohtani and not much else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, Sarava said: The only thing I'll say is. If they are going to go nuts and offer a Vaughn, Kopech, Montgomery +++ package....or whatever it takes. Fine do it. But do it with the intention of offering him his 500 mil request for a contract extension. If ever there is a player worth JR's 1/4 century spending splurge, Juan Soto is the guy. And if you do trade Kopech, you better have a plan to get a good starter in here at the deadline. Because I already an skeptical that the Sox have the rotation to win a World Series, and they definitely don't if Kopech gets moved. So you'd need to save a few of the prospects for a 2nd deal for a starter. Likely if the Sox do make any moves that include a LH bat and a pitcher you have to think Martin Perez is a target based on how he does against the Astros, and Happ or Brian Reynolds are more reasonable LH bat targets. Lynn, no idea how he'll perform 2nd half. Kopech, who knows how long till he totally gassed especially if he's already starting to feel it. Cueto, no way he can be as good as his 1st half but the same could be said of Martin Perez. So start with getting a pitcher as quickly as you can and see who's left among eligible LH bats. Resigning Soto is a bigger pipe dream than trading for him. JR might not even be around in 2.5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: What are you talking about Caulfield? We have potential all stars at almost every position including pitching. How is that in any way similar to having Trout, Ohtani and not much else? How can a team with potential All-Stars at every position be behind the Twins and Guardians after nearly 100 games? Sure, Abreu and Anderson. Robert and Vaughn, although he would never make it in LF or 1B voting. Moncada. Grandal before he forgot how to hit and walk. Last time I checked, at least for the last twenty years, the best White Sox teams were not necessarily the most talented ones but the ones who played best together as a cohesive unit. 2005 team will only have one Hall of Famer, who didn't even impact that postseason. Even if they DO have the potential, what makes anyone believe TLR is the right manager to get them to play to that projected/potential level? Blind faith? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Likely if the Sox do make any moves that include a LH bat and a pitcher you have to think Martin Perez is a target based on how he does against the Astros, and Happ or Brian Reynolds are more reasonable LH bat targets. Lynn, no idea how he'll perform 2nd half. Kopech, who knows how long till he totally gassed especially if he's already starting to feel it. Cueto, no way he can be as good as his 1st half but the same could be said of Martin Perez. So start with getting a pitcher as quickly as you can and see who's left among eligible LH bats. Resigning Soto is a bigger pipe dream than trading for him. JR might not even be around in 2.5 years. How would Bryan Reynolds be termed reasonable…compared to Happ, who the Cubs pretty much have to get rid of since they’re basically blowing the whole team up other than Seizuki, Stroman and maybe Hendricks? Eventually the Pirates are going to stop making dumb trades and incorrect talent evaluations (Polanco, for one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Raise your hand if you feel confident the White Sox are going to run out a $200+ million payroll next year??? No qualifications, like they make the playoffs or trade for Soto…will they or won’t they exceed $200 million for the first time in club history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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