Jerksticks Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: People need to realize it's not just prospects it's committing $500M. That’s the whole point of the thread before it became popular nationally to talk about Juan Soto a few days ago. It’s one of the rarest opportunities in recent baseball to go super big. Like getting Bonds from Pittsburgh. Massive big boy stones required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: I think the only deal that would get the Nats to jump on a call from the Sox would be Vaughn, Montgomery, Crochet, + 2 other fillers. That's more than the haul for Sale. Pretty sure that's more than the "ante" to just get the Nats to pick up the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: I think the only deal that would get the Nats to jump on a call from the Sox would be Vaughn, Montgomery, Crochet, + 2 other fillers. Now that is an interesting one that makes sense both ways. I have a feeling in the grand scheme of things, a deal like this will be in the running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Its a large gamble that Soto + whatever is left + whatever they can add = gets you to the promised land. It's going all in on the next 2 years knowing full well that he'll walk and the org will be looking at a restart of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Now that is an interesting one that makes sense both ways. I have a feeling in the grand scheme of things, a deal like this will be in the running. Yes, I predict the actual return will be this or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Now that is an interesting one that makes sense both ways. I have a feeling in the grand scheme of things, a deal like this will be in the running. It would sting but the next two years sure could be exciting as fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: That's more than the haul for Sale. Pretty sure that's more than the "ante" to just get the Nats to pick up the phone. You have to account for service time also. The two headliners we received for Sale had their full 6 years available to the Sox. The Nats would be getting only 4 years for each of Vaughn and Crochet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 30 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Trading Montgomery, Sosa, Mena/Veras AND AV is gutting the future, though. Soto is awesome. Solves a ton of problems. I just said I'd trade AV, Sosa, Mena/Veras for him. I'd draw the line at including Montgomery for a guy we'll pay around $60M for 2 seasons and then watch him walk, and now our future is gutted. Not sure why I entered this chat though. The Sox aren't trading for Soto. Sorry, I meant the package would be Vaughn, Montgomery, and ONE OF Sosa/Mena/Vera. I only put those three names because I don't know if they would be looking for a pitcher or hitter as that third piece. Yeah, we know they aren't trading for him but its still good discussion on what ifs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 30 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: I think the only deal that would get the Nats to jump on a call from the Sox would be Vaughn, Montgomery, Crochet, + 2 other fillers. I would definitely do this. Crochet is a lost cause as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: You have to account for service time also. The two headliners we received for Sale had their full 6 years available to the Sox. The Nats would be getting only 4 years for each of Vaughn and Crochet. Sale also had more control, and was actually on a team friendly contract. Soto has less control, and will be paid likely $60M+ over the next 2 seasons via arb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, T R U said: Sorry, I meant the package would be Vaughn, Montgomery, and ONE OF Sosa/Mena/Vera. I only put those three names because I don't know if they would be looking for a pitcher or hitter as that third piece. Yeah, we know they aren't trading for him but its still good discussion on what ifs Yeah, I know what you meant by Vera/Mena/Sosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 10 hours ago, Quin said: Yeah, I know Soto is a decade younger than Durant, but the Nets are (rightfully) demanding a monster package in the offseason and no one is biting. That steep, steep price is gonna be coming down. Exactly . Chris sale was traded and he was cost controlled for 3 years and how much did the Sox get for him ? A look back: https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/this-trade-in-history-chris-sale-to-the-red-sox/ Moncada is, at this time, considered the #1 prospect in baseball by Fangraphs (who rate him a 70, which is rare); #2 overall in the sport by both Baseball America and MLB Pipeline; and #5 by Baseball Prospectus. In other words, there is strong consensus that he’ll be a future star, and his stats validate it: at age 21, he put up a 156 WRC+ at High-A, followed by a 152 WRC+ at AA, which earned him a late-season cup of coffee with the big club. There’s some doubt about whether he’ll land at 2B or 3B, but no one doubts that his bat will be elite. You rarely see a prospect with a triple-digit valuation, but this one seems justified. *Kopech is, at this time, ranked #32 at Baseball America, #10 at MLB Pipeline, and #36 at Baseball Prospectus. Fangraphs rates him a 55 (on the traditional scouting scale of 20-80, where 50 is considered good). All of that suggests he’ll be a future impact arm – most likely as a #2 starter – although Eric Longenhagen of Fangraphs does note that comes with risk – he’s had some injury issues and off-field incidents, and his high-octane velo coupled with delivery issues suggests some reliever risk. Basabe was projected as maybe a 4th OF type and Victor Diaz was a throw in RHP. Soto has 2.5 years left and his salary is not cost controlled. He'll be getting record arbitration numbers. The Sox don't have a Moncada type and Montgomery might be too far away for the Nats to consider him a Top Ten Prospect but realistically that's where Montgomery is headed but he has to continue doing the things he's doing now for another season for him to reach the top 10. Colas isn't ranked in the Top 100 . He might get there at the end of the year if he continues to crush at AA. He had some good exposure getting to the Futures game and the players in that game are just the types the Nats want ,AA and AAA type high ranking players. Colas is older than Soto but a better athlete, better fielder easily, LH like Soto . He might have to crack the Top 50 prospects list but that isn't going to happen before the Nats trade him unless it doesn't happen by the deadline. Considering it's Cola's 1st year, he's adjusted well and hopefully he climbs through the system faster now. He's now at a level where he's age appropriate so raking at Birmingham would mean Colas might also be a fast riser and crack the Top 100 whenever they do them again in the winter. But as an older player in his 1st year , he just hasn't been around long enough and hadn't been seen throughout an American HS and College career to get highly ranked .He may already be a Top 50 guy by some scouts estimations but it won't show in rankings. The cost controlled salary Sale had means a lot more to potential suitors than Soto's whatever he gets in arbitration numbers means to his suitors . He has less years remaining than Sale did. But he is an everyday player whose hitting is so good it makes up for his fielding. He may never get to 7 fWAR again but for the next 2.5 he should be around 15 fWAR if he stays healthy which is always a concern . Sox got 1 great hitting and speed prospect and 1 very good pitching prospect a guy with a 50/50 chance of having a MLB career and a throw in pitcher who had 93 innings , nothing above A ball and nothing outstanding in his over all numbers but had a live arm. The Red Sox prospects in their system were ranked 1, 3, 8 and 28. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/red-sox-to-acquire-chris-sale.html 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yeah, I know what you meant by Vera/Mena/Sosa Ok, then we are just in plain disagreement about that gutting the future. None of those guys move the needle, Sosa does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 2.5 years of control for Soto... if we actually had the pitching and a different manager I would say absol-fucking-utely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, T R U said: Ok, then we are just in plain disagreement about that gutting the future. None of those guys move the needle, Sosa does. Montgomery and Colas are really our only prospects to get too worked up about. I'd happily trade AV + a mixture of Mena/Sosa/Vera or really anyone else not on the MLB roster for Soto. Its the inclusion of Montgomery who is a profile of player we've lacked forever that gives me major pause. And I love AV. But if you can flip 4.3 seasons of AV plus bustable prospects for 2.3 seasons of Soto in the midst of our contention window, ya gotta do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Sale also had more control, and was actually on a team friendly contract. Soto has less control, and will be paid likely $60M+ over the next 2 seasons via arb. Thank you for mentioning this, it is different. That said I think think talent-wise soto does exceed sale a bit and I would assume position players get a bit more of a premium than pitching...but I am not sure about it. I can't remember the last pre-first contract position player that moved where it wasn't the last .5 year before FA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Sale also had more control, and was actually on a team friendly contract. Soto has less control, and will be paid likely $60M+ over the next 2 seasons via arb. It's total different times. This trade is in-season vs Sale being offseason. I believe the competition will be higher here as there are more teams who feel like they can win now and would be willing to push their chips to the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 minute ago, bmags said: Thank you for mentioning this, it is different. That said I think think talent-wise soto does exceed sale a bit and I would assume position players get a bit more of a premium than pitching...but I am not sure about it. I can't remember the last pre-first contract position player that moved where it wasn't the last .5 year before FA. Agreed. I think you add up the sums of the parts, the package will look very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said: It's total different times. This trade is in-season vs Sale being offseason. I believe the competition will be higher here as there are more teams who feel like they can win now and would be willing to push their chips to the middle. It is. Teams hug their elite prospects even more now than they did 5 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: It is. Teams hug their elite prospects even more now than they did 5 years ago. Outside of Montgomery (who barely is one), the Sox don't have any of these so called "elite" prospects to hug. This is why the price will be heavier for a team like the Sox. Good luck trying to compete with a stacked farm system on trying to trade for an MVP candidate like Soto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Could they acquire Bryce Harper? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: Could they acquire Bryce Harper? He has a broken finger and phillies are "competitive" right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: Outside of Montgomery (who barely is one), the Sox don't have any of these so called "elite" prospects to hug. This is why the price will be heavier for a team like the Sox. Good luck trying to compete with a stacked farm system on trying to trade for an MVP candidate like Soto. That's fair. I don't think the Sox will be trading for Soto. Though AV is just as valuable as a blue chip prospect, IMO. He know he's not going to flop. Edited July 20, 2022 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Why is this thread 10 pages? There is literally zero chance the Sox would ever trade for Soto in the first place, let alone give him 500 million dollars. Only way this would ever become even a possibility is if Jerry no longer owns the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Why is this thread 10 pages? There is literally zero chance the Sox would ever trade for Soto in the first place, let alone give him 500 million dollars. Only way this would ever become even a possibility is if Jerry no longer owns the team. The Machado thread was like 300, so all things considered, we've learned. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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