Nightengale: Sox have clubhouse issues

[greg775]

10 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I think it is painfully obvious Pollock does not mesh well with this team. Could also see guys getting pissed Garcia gets so much playing time despite his stats

I'll give Pollock (whom I hate) credit for going oppo field for that big hit today. He does that in key spots a few more times and he might be a little more popular. Right now he's kind of Erstad-ish (though I got buried on here for ripping Pollock a few weeks ago when he was hot).

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

I'm a Tony apologist but I'll tell u one thing. Tony deserves to have the players quit on him and have discord after giving up the other day down only six runs. People get on my guy Ozzie for giving up on that season when he negotiated with Miami (even though KW wanted him out) but Tony giving up down six says everything we need to know. He's saying the White Sox players cannot concoct the same rally concocted against them earlier this season (was it Cleveland that got six in the ninth or something to beat the Sox? Or some other team).

Yeah you aren't gonna win down six without help (some walks, a grand slam, then stringing a few more hits together) but it's a fricking joke to give up down six. It just is!!!!!

Why did he take TA out in the fifth? Missed that one today. Loafing? That would be another no no. You don't mess with the team's best player. Bye bye Tony.

Naylor game at home. GS in 9th 3 run in 11th.  8 total for game.

Pretty sure we have blown at least one more six run lead...

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

I'll give Pollock (whom I hate) credit for going oppo field for that big hit today. He does that in key spots a few more times and he might be a little more popular. Right now he's kind of Erstad-ish (though I got buried on here for ripping Pollock a few weeks ago when he was hot).

Does anyone really care THAT much about AJ Pollock this season to bury someone over whether he's actually better than - .1 -.2 -.3 fWAR?

His defense/arm alone in LF has been unacceptable, and lack of home runs a killer.

[ron883]

16 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I think it is painfully obvious Pollock does not mesh well with this team. Could also see guys getting pissed Garcia gets so much playing time despite his stats

What makes you think this?

I agree with the second part though. The guy gets plenty of undeserved playing time. I can see that rubbing some players the wrong way. It's like when you're in little league and the coach makes his son a starting pitcher even though he's garbage at it.  

[ron883]

9 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'm a Tony apologist but I'll tell u one thing. Tony deserves to have the players quit on him and have discord after giving up the other day down only six runs. People get on my guy Ozzie for giving up on that season when he negotiated with Miami (even though KW wanted him out) but Tony giving up down six says everything we need to know. He's saying the White Sox players cannot concoct the same rally concocted against them earlier this season (was it Cleveland that got six in the ninth or something to beat the Sox? Or some other team).

Yeah you aren't gonna win down six without help (some walks, a grand slam, then stringing a few more hits together) but it's a fricking joke to give up down six. It just is!!!!!

Why did he take TA out in the fifth? Missed that one today. Loafing? That would be another no no. You don't mess with the team's best player. Bye bye Tony.

Ozzie is the perfect coach for this team. They need a guy who will hold them accountable and light a fire under their asses. Ozzie isn't scared (or too tired in Tony's case) to rip into them for the poor effort. What I'd give to have him back. 

[BigHurt3515]

9 minutes ago, ron883 said:

What makes you think this?

I agree with the second part though. The guy gets plenty of undeserved playing time. I can see that rubbing some players the wrong way. It's like when you're in little league and the coach makes his son a starting pitcher even though he's garbage at it.  

His play this year, and when you watch I never really notice him interacting with anyone on the bench

[Bad Hombre]

A wise man once said “fun is winning, and winning is fun.”

 All this noise will go away if they ever rip off a long winning streak

[maxjusttyped]

Sox fans deserve better than going back to the well with Ozzie. There's a reason no team has seriously considered him for a managerial job since he was fired in Miami. Raise your standards. jeez.

[PitchatRisktoZisk]

If it came from Nightingale, my bet is it came from JR. He's anticipating all the "most underachieving team" stories that get written during the 4 day All Star break. He's laying it at the player's feet. 

I'm too lazy to find it, but there was a blurb in the Sun Times a week or so ago alluding to TLR "not imposing his will" in the clubhouse because he was concerned about the rap he came in with re: letting the kids play, blah blah blah. I think you'll see TLR talk during the ASB how he "tried to let the players regulate the clubhouse and not over control things". He'll go on to say that hasn't worked out, so "he'll be stepping in and controlling things". JR in his comatose sense believes the leak gives TLR cover for the horrible lethargy of the last 18 months. They're throwing the players under the bus and having the HOFBP ride in on his white horse to save the day. This FO is pathetically out of touch and refuses to take responsibility for the mess of the last 2 years. 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, PitchatRisktoZisk said:

If it came from Nightingale, my bet is it came from JR. He's anticipating all the "most underachieving team" stories that get written during the 4 day All Star break. He's laying it at the player's feet. 

I'm too lazy to find it, but there was a blurb in the Sun Times a week or so ago alluding to TLR "not imposing his will" in the clubhouse because he was concerned about the rap he came in with re: letting the kids play, blah blah blah. I think you'll see TLR talk during the ASB how he "tried to let the players regulate the clubhouse and not over control things". He'll go on to say that hasn't worked out, so "he'll be stepping in and controlling things". JR in his comatose sense believes the leak gives TLR cover for the horrible lethargy of the last 18 months. They're throwing the players under the bus and having the HOFBP ride in on his white horse to save the day. This FO is pathetically out of touch and refuses to take responsibility for the mess of the last 2 years. 

Well, at least since the trade deadline less than a year ago...that's when things really started to feel dysfunctional with so many questions about who was actually responsible for the various moves.

[Tony]

3 hours ago, elrockinMT said:

I don’t agree with any of this stuff. Stuff like this gets posted from time to time and had no sources to back up the claims 

I know you never agree with any form of White Sox slander, but it’s amazing your lack of understanding on a topic like this.

Do you think Bob Nightengale just….made this up? The same Bob Nightengale that broke the news Tony LaRussa was being hired by the White Sox, and the same Bob Nightengale that has leaked countless other Sox nuggets over the years? 

What do you think happened here? He heard rumors from a guy who’s friend with another guy who heard this rumor over text, and Bob just decided to run with it? 

Or is it possible the USA Today baseball writer was told this information by multiple high-ranking individuals who wanted it printed, Nightengale confirmed it and printed it?

[hankchifan]

4 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

Not that this is telling us anything we didn't already know, but there is really nothing left TLR does well if he can't hold a clubhouse together

TLR should be in The Villages retirement community in Florida instead of the Sox clubhouse.  Maybe JR will let him work from home.  Enough is enough.

[chw42]

33 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Sox fans deserve better than going back to the well with Ozzie. There's a reason no team has seriously considered him for a managerial job since he was fired in Miami. Raise your standards. jeez.

This team isn't winning anything worthwhile until we modernize the front office and coaching staff. As a team that doesn't like to spend big on premium free agents, you have to spend money and resources in places that will help you get bargains and squeeze every ounce of talent out of your players. The Sox FO and coaching staff are almost the exact opposite of that. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by chw42

[maxjusttyped]

Just now, chw42 said:

This team isn't winning anything worthwhile until we modernize the front office and coaching staff. As a team that doesn't like to spend big on free agents, you have to spend money and resources in places that will help you get bargains and squeeze every ounce of talent out of your players. The Sox FO and coaching staff are almost the exact opposite of that. 

Katz is the big exception there, otherwise, yep. I totally agree. There are so many different ways you can give your team/organization an edge on the margins and the Sox are bad at practically all of them.

[Spicy gar]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

What makes you think this?

I agree with the second part though. The guy gets plenty of undeserved playing time. I can see that rubbing some players the wrong way. It's like when you're in little league and the coach makes his son a starting pitcher even though he's garbage at it.  

Misread

Edited July 11, 2022 by Spicy gar

[Spicy gar]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Ozzie is the perfect coach for this team. They need a guy who will hold them accountable and light a fire under their asses. Ozzie isn't scared (or too tired in Tony's case) to rip into them for the poor effort. What I'd give to have him back. 

Fans were pissed about hiring a manger (old) and also out of managing for ten years to then hire someone who hasn't managed in almost twenty? Seems like a good angle. 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Spicy gar said:

Fans were pissed about hiring a manger (old) and also out of managing for ten years to then hire someone who hasn't managed in almost twenty? Seems like a good angle. 

Guillen joined the Marlins in 2012.

LaRussa left the Cards after WS victory in 2011.

Edited July 11, 2022 by caulfield12

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, Spicy gar said:

Fans were pissed about hiring a manger (old) and also out of managing for ten years to then hire someone who hasn't managed in almost twenty? Seems like a good angle. 

Who hasn't managed in almost 20 years?

 

[Spicy gar]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Guillen joined the Marlins in 2012.

LaRussa left the Cards after WS victory in 2011.

My bad. Was looking at his playing career. 

[Spicy gar]

Just now, ron883 said:

Who hasn't managed in almost 20 years?

 

My bad. Was looking at the wrong year.

[maxjusttyped]

34 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Guillen joined the Marlins in 2012.

LaRussa left the Cards after WS victory in 2011.

Interesting how they both went almost a decade without another team expressing interest in them to manage. Of course it's our Sox, always on the cutting edge of things.

[ChiSox59]

5 hours ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I think it is painfully obvious Pollock does not mesh well with this team. Could also see guys getting pissed Garcia gets so much playing time despite his stats

I would agree here. He seems miserable; rarely see him smile. Don’t watch a ton of west coast ball as I am generally early to sleep but I doubt he was this lifeless on LaD. If this story is true, wouldn’t be shocked if he was at the center of the turmoil. 

[Balta1701]

7 hours ago, ron883 said:

Ozzie is the perfect coach for this team. They need a guy who will hold them accountable and light a fire under their asses. Ozzie isn't scared (or too tired in Tony's case) to rip into them for the poor effort. What I'd give to have him back. 

Just so someone says this…a lack of accountability, a lack of focus, a failure to put in work, playing favorites - those were some of the biggest and most consistent criticisms of Guillen over his last 5 years. When Ventura took over for 1 season, you actually saw a team that was accountable and put in work, and they massively overplayed their talent level. Then of course Ventura checked out for a nap and was never heard from again.

Somehow now we managed to look at the worst parts of Guillen and think “if only we did more of that” with the current manager. 

[MiddleCoastBias]

7 hours ago, PitchatRisktoZisk said:

If it came from Nightingale, my bet is it came from JR. He's anticipating all the "most underachieving team" stories that get written during the 4 day All Star break. He's laying it at the player's feet. 

I'm too lazy to find it, but there was a blurb in the Sun Times a week or so ago alluding to TLR "not imposing his will" in the clubhouse because he was concerned about the rap he came in with re: letting the kids play, blah blah blah. I think you'll see TLR talk during the ASB how he "tried to let the players regulate the clubhouse and not over control things". He'll go on to say that hasn't worked out, so "he'll be stepping in and controlling things". JR in his comatose sense believes the leak gives TLR cover for the horrible lethargy of the last 18 months. They're throwing the players under the bus and having the HOFBP ride in on his white horse to save the day. This FO is pathetically out of touch and refuses to take responsibility for the mess of the last 2 years. 

"Things are going to change around here, see? No more long-distance phone calls, keep your dames at home, and shave those sideburns Mattingly!"

[thedoctor]

trying to diagnose the clubhouse issues by assessing how guys look in the snippets you see during a game is folly.