Will the Sox ever outdraw the Cubs again?

[WBWSF]

13 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Where have these rumors circulated?  Perhaps they’ve circulated entirely within your head?  Never once heard that the Wirtz family is next in line nor anything about building a new stadium near the UC.  I call BS. 

 Wirtz is a White Sox fan and part owner of the White Sox. (He owns a small percentage of the White Sox)  Wirtz actually goes to some White Sox games. He actually likes baseball more than hockey. People who work for the White Sox have speculated for years that he wants to be the owner. We shall see. I'm sure that JR already knows who will buy the White Sox from his family.

[Tnetennba]

51 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Never heard that one but the again we have been in Florida since 1993.

I'm not sure how I  feel about a stadium near United Center, just west of the loop would be better where working people and hotel visitors could walk to the ballpark.

UC on game or concert days is a mess to get to by car.  There are less transit options as well.  West Loop has exploded and seems like a much bigger draw than the South Loop, but Armour Square vs Near West feels about as detached from either respectively.  290 sucks worse anywhere IMO than the Dan Ryan getting to 35th.  UC area definitely wouldn’t be an improved location for the Sox.  It’s a little too late to build in the South Loop and going suburb kills half of the draw.  A new park where old Comiskey was is most feasible to me - if it ever gets to that point.  

[Highland]

The lovable loser stuff has faded, but the Cubs situation is different than any other franchise. They don't have a fan-base; they have a cult. In pure numbers, the Sox can compete with that.

Secondly, the attendance situation took decades in the making. It would take a long time to reverse the effects. And to actually change things would take long-term planning. I don't think the Sox FO is into that.

I doubt the Sox will ever outdraw the Cubs, and in a sense, that is not important. What is important is to build a stronger and wider Sox fan base regardless in comparison to the Cubs.  Attendance will always decrease during bad seasons, but if the team had a stronger base, the drop in attendance wouldn't be as bad.  I hope attendance will increase to give the franchise a deeper economic base. 

Brooks Boyer did some great things. Haven't seen much from him lately. But he did give impression that he understood Sox fans. That is a rarity in the Sox organization.

[southsider2k5]

On the list of things to post lists about, this ain't it, and it ain't Sox fans.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

There have been rumors for years that the Wirtz family will be the next owners of the White Sox. They would then build a stadium near the United Center.

Great, now Tony will be replaced by Omar Vizquel.

[Thad Bosley]

25 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

UC on game or concert days is a mess to get to by car.  There are less transit options as well.  West Loop has exploded and seems like a much bigger draw than the South Loop, but Armour Square vs Near West feels about as detached from either respectively.  290 sucks worse anywhere IMO than the Dan Ryan getting to 35th.  UC area definitely wouldn’t be an improved location for the Sox.  It’s a little too late to build in the South Loop and going suburb kills half of the draw.  A new park where old Comiskey was is most feasible to me - if it ever gets to that point.  

Sort of like a do-over, build a ballpark they should have built the first time around.  One facing the magnificent skyline and with a far more reasonable upper deck in terms of steepness.  

Imagine the difference in the upper deck experience if you could see the skyline beyond the scoreboard from most of the seats up there wherein you also don’t feel like you’re getting vertigo because of a steep angle.  Put the entrance to the upper deck in the middle of the deck, not at the base as it currently is, so nobody would be faced with a huge hike to get to their seats.  I think the demand for an upper deck seat would almost do a 180 if all of this were to happen, and would go a long way towards addressing the team’s long-running attendance issues.   

Seven years left until the lease on the current ballpark runs out, and that’s on a collision course with the advent of new ownership in this same time frame, so as get closer to all of that I can’t imagine how the talk of a new ballpark won’t  steadily increase.  Should be very interesting!

[tray]

The demographics of Chicago have changed since white flight gained momentum in the late 1960's / early 1970's. Whites now  make up less than 50% of Chicago residents. So many businesses moved out of the city limits as many Chicago neighborhoods, especially those South and West of Chicago were hollowed out. Some older posters here that were raised in Chicago and whose parents  moved to the suburbs are familiar with this. In order to stem white flight, City of Chicago Police, Firemen and City Employees were required maintain residence within the City limits. That stabilized neighborhoods like Beverly, Mount Greenwood, and Ashburn on the South Side. 

The tide of disinvestment has turned since those days in some areas of the City including areas from the South Loop to Brideport. Gentrification and reinvestment are slowly strengthening those areas. Moving the White Sox out of Chicago would be so 1970's, IMO.  

The Reinsdorf family has wisely acquired more real estate surrounding the stadium for parking and possibly for future development. The current stadium is still in good condition and could conceivably last for a few more decades with proper maintenance.

Some fans that post here have may not even have been to a WSox home game in years while others are not familiar with the development of the South Loop and the gentrification of surrounding areas.

 

[kitekrazy]

9 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Sox have the revenue base to compete among the Top 10 in MLB without moving or building a new stadium. Cubs attendance is irrelevant, 

I wish Jerry moved to TB, he would be stuck with the absolute worst situation in baseball.

Chicago could very well have attracted an AL Expansion franchise in the 1990s. The Chicago market is not considerably different than Los Angeles, and is far better than San Francisco / Oakland, or Washington / Baltimore.

I hope a Billionaire fights for a Chicago AFC franchise after the asshat bears move to Arlington Heights, Decatur, or wherever the hell they end up after leaving our city. Hell, move the Football Cardinals back here.

I think that is the stopping point.

[The Mighty Mite]

11 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Sox have the revenue base to compete among the Top 10 in MLB without moving or building a new stadium. Cubs attendance is irrelevant, 

I wish Jerry moved to TB, he would be stuck with the absolute worst situation in baseball.

Chicago could very well have attracted an AL Expansion franchise in the 1990s. The Chicago market is not considerably different than Los Angeles, and is far better than San Francisco / Oakland, or Washington / Baltimore.

I hope a Billionaire fights for a Chicago AFC franchise after the asshat bears move to Arlington Heights, Decatur, or wherever the hell they end up after leaving our city. Hell, move the Football Cardinals back here.

Cardinals moving back to Chicago would be cool. I was a Cardinal fan as I associated them with the Sox because they played their home games at Comiskey. I went to the second to last Cardinal home game in Chicago in 1959 and oddly enough it was at Soldier Field as the Cards for their last season in the city decided to leave Comiskey for the lakefront stadium.

[Chicago White Sox]

The Cubs don’t matter until Reinsdorf is gone.  The real priority is getting a quality owner to replace him when the time comes and not some group led by his boob of a son.

[wegner]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Cubs don’t matter until Reinsdorf is gone.  The real priority is getting a quality owner to replace him when the time comes and not some group led by his boob of a son.

Has there ever been talk of Michael Jordan buying the Sox?  Just spit balling here.

[oldsox]

1 hour ago, wegner said:

Has there ever been talk of Michael Jordan buying the Sox?  Just spit balling here.

He's too smart.

[ron883]

8 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Never once cared about this 

Nothing beats Caulfield making one of his attendance threads after 1 home game in the 2021 season that had limited attendance due to covid

 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Nothing beats Caulfield making one of his attendance threads after 1 home game in the 2021 season that had limited attendance due to covid

 

You're familiar with the concept of sarcasm?

I was making fun of my own proclivity for attendance threads.

And the White Sox had been NOWHERE close to 13th in MLB attendance since the 2008-2010 teams.

For one day at least, we could actually claim to be in the upper half.

 

But thanks for the stalking anyway.

Edited July 17, 2022 by caulfield12

[tray]

54 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

You're familiar with the concept of sarcasm?

I was making fun of my own proclivity for attendance threads.

 

How many games have you attended in the last three years?

I'm asking because I am wondering how familiar you might be with some of the issues you are opining about.

Have you ever driven from the South suburbs to the North side in order to attend a Cubs game.

If you have, trust me. that makes driving to 35th and Shields, parking , and walking to the stadium  like a walk in the park.

Edited July 17, 2022 by tray

[soxfan49]

7 hours ago, shago said:

One guy by the name of Mike Jordan should buy this club. Get a bunch of hype around it. Revamp Charlotte buzz with the AAA feeder. 

Dude likes beisbol, no?

Good idea since he has done so well owning a professional basketball team, right?

[shago]

1 minute ago, soxfan49 said:

Good idea since he has done so well owning a professional basketball team, right?

Fair point

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, tray said:

How many games have you attended in the last three years?

I'm asking because I am wondering how familiar you might be with some of the issues you are opining about.

Have you ever driven from the South suburbs to the North side in order to attend a Cubs game.

If you have, trust me. that makes driving to 35th and Shields, parking , and walking to the stadium  like a walk in the park.

Not since 2015 or 2016.  Pretty sure it was a useless Samardzija start, too.

I haven’t been able to leave China to go back to the US, since returning here would still face a combined 28 day hospital/hotel then at-home quarantine.  This has been the case ever since Covid-19 hit in January 2019.

Last time I checked, a flight was $222,000.  

Edited July 18, 2022 by caulfield12

[mac9001]

The Sox best move is working out a deal with the Bears. Eventually the same restrictions and limitations that drove the bears out of Solider Field will also drive the Sox out. The south side of Chicago is just a terrible location for a large sports stadium, eventually they'll follow the money into the burbs, downtown or out of town. It's inevitable.

[WBWSF]

19 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Cardinals moving back to Chicago would be cool. I was a Cardinal fan as I associated them with the Sox because they played their home games at Comiskey. I went to the second to last Cardinal home game in Chicago in 1959 and oddly enough it was at Soldier Field as the Cards for their last season in the city decided to leave Comiskey for the lakefront stadium.

Willie Wilson is running for Mayor of Chicago. He realizes that the Bears are going to move to the suburbs. Wilson has said that Chicago should get another NFL team and have them play in Soldier field.

[Kyyle23]

9 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Willie Wilson is running for Mayor of Chicago. He realizes that the Bears are going to move to the suburbs. Wilson has said that Chicago should get another NFL team and have them play in Soldier field.

Why would any team want to move into the smallest stadium in the league and be in the same market as the bears.  That’s ridiculous to even imagine

[Quin]

Caulfied, just a legitimate question: Why do you start so many attendance threads?

[Dick Allen]

24 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Why would any team want to move into the smallest stadium in the league and be in the same market as the bears.  That’s ridiculous to even imagine

If Fields winds up sucking, I think you would have no problem finding enough people to embrace a 2nd Chicago team. They used to have 2 teams. As long as the McCaskeys own the Bears, a 2nd team has a fighting chance.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Dick Allen

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, mac9001 said:

The Sox best move is working out a deal with the Bears. Eventually the same restrictions and limitations that drove the bears out of Solider Field will also drive the Sox out. The south side of Chicago is just a terrible location for a large sports stadium, eventually they'll follow the money into the burbs, downtown or out of town. It's inevitable.

It is hardly inevitable.  The Bears weren’t driven from the city, they made a choice.      Sox best move is NOT the suburbs.  Baseball’s stadium renaissance started with new downtown stadiums.  ATL is the only one I can think of in 30 years that moved to the burbs, and there were other factors involved.  There isn’t a better spot of land on which to build in the city with infrastructure, multiple transit options, and easy expressway access already in place than the empty lots surrounding current Sox Park.  Anywhere else near south or near west has logistical problems on top of continually escalating property costs.  Unless a new multibillionaire owner wants to spend gobs of their own money, the Sox aren’t going anywhere. 

[CentralChamps21]

On 7/17/2022 at 12:04 AM, caulfield12 said:

I don’t expect the White Sox will ever outdraw the Cubs again…in my lifetime.

Unless they:

1) Build a new stadium/relocate in Chicagoland (why this is unlikely we know all too well)

2) Relocate to another city/market

3) JR steps aside and a new ownership group and/or Melanie Hobson et al run things in a completely new and innovative way, basically starting over from scratch

 

2) barring a massive change in how teams receive TV revenue, this is NEVER happening. There's no market the Sox can move to where they would get anywhere near the TV money they're getting now.

1) would help, but that's not the biggest obstacle

3) is really the one impediment to competing with the Cubs in attendance. Having ownership that prioritizes winning and the fans over the bottom line will produce a product that will naturally outdraw the Cubs without having to try.