Chisoxfn Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Cabrerra has to be playing shortstop for the Sox. I do not even want to think about Jose Valentin as the Sox starting shortstop for another season. Horrible OBP, improved defense, losing speed. At 2nd I guess Roberto is fine if its cheap, but I don't mind giving Harris a shot or signing a cheap vet that stays on the market. Maybe sign Adam Kennedy for 3 mill or so. All the talk down here in SoCal is that the Angels plan on signing Matsui or Tejada and moving Eckstein to 2nd. I guess Kennedy is a free agnet or thats what I have been reading. Sounds good to me. What is your take on Centerfield. Personally, I have never thought much of Rowand. I would like to see Reed get another year under his belt, and Borchard doesn't appear to be ready. What do we do? I don't mind Rowand/Harris/Reed/Borchard but if the Sox are gonna go young at 2nd I would have no problem bringing back Kenny Lofton. He wouldn't cost much money and he has great speed and would be a great teacher for someone like Reed. Rowand has never proven anything when handed the starting job and the Sox can't have a ton of holes. At least you know whoever is in center will be able to go get em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Don't get me wrong, I want to see an upgrade at shortstop also. I agree that Jose is on the downside of his career. But trading Lee for Guillen? Ummmm ... No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Don't get me wrong, I want to see an upgrade at shortstop also. I agree that Jose is on the downside of his career. But trading Lee for Guillen? Ummmm ... No. Lee for Guillen and a good prospect is a fair trade for both sides. I am one of the biggest Lee supports on this board, but I think you are overexagerating his TRUE value. Everyone assumes that because Lee hit a few more HR's and RBI's that last year was his breakout year, however his .830 OPS was LOWER then his .843 OPS in 2002 and was almost identical to his 2000 OPS of .829. So I ask how much did Lee REALLY improve? His plate disipline was the worst since his rookie year. His 37 walks in 623 AB's is down right terrible. I predicted that Lee would improve in 2003, because of his improved plate disipline in 2002, but I couldn't have been any more wrong. Guillen on the other hand has seen his numbers improve across the board over the last 2 years and if he is moved away from Safeco could see his power improve(has had a higher SLG on the road the last 2 years). So you have to ask which is harder to find and more important to a team, a power hitting LF/DH or a solid complete SS? When you factor in a good prospect, and that the Sox would have about 6M(likely amount Lee will get through arbitration and the money saved not resigning Valentin) to fill other holes it becomes a good deal for the Sox any way that you slice it, especially when you open your eyes to reality and realize that Lee really didn't improve in 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 CWSox said "Yes he's horrible" when I asked "Is Valentin that bad?" I would call Clayton horrible; not Jose. Jose may be average but he ain't horrible. That's an exaggeration I think. 29 homers looked pretty good during that stretch when we were turning the season around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Lee for Guillen and a good prospect is a fair trade for both sides. I am one of the biggest Lee supports on this board, but I think you are overexagerating his TRUE value. Everyone assumes that because Lee hit a few more HR's and RBI's that last year was his breakout year, however his .830 OPS was LOWER then his .843 OPS in 2002 and was almost identical to his 2000 OPS of .829. So I ask how much did Lee REALLY improve? His plate disipline was the worst since his rookie year. His 37 walks in 623 AB's is down right terrible. I predicted that Lee would improve in 2003, because of his improved plate disipline in 2002, but I couldn't have been any more wrong. Guillen on the other hand has seen his numbers improve across the board over the last 2 years and if he is moved away from Safeco could see his power improve(has had a higher SLG on the road the last 2 years). So you have to ask which is harder to find and more important to a team, a power hitting LF/DH or a solid complete SS? When you factor in a good prospect, and that the Sox would have about 6M(likely amount Lee will get through arbitration and the money saved not resigning Valentin) to fill other holes it becomes a good deal for the Sox any way that you slice it, especially when you open your eyes to reality and realize that Lee really didn't improve in 2003. I think you'll find a lot of people in here that think Carlos was our best position player last year. As I said, I'll stick with Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 "I think you'll find a lot of people in here that think Carlos was our best position player last year. As I said, I'll stick with Lee." Certainly debatable, especially if you use stats to make your decision. I love Lee, but I still think people are overexagerating his 2003 season. I personally thought that last year was a better year then this year because of the drastic improvement in plate disipline, which is usually a good sign of development in a young hitter, however, the fact that he regressed this year is discouraging to me. Improving the middle infield is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT IMO then keeping one-dimension power hitting LF/RF/1B/DH's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 CWSox said "Yes he's horrible" when I asked "Is Valentin that bad?" I would call Clayton horrible; not Jose. Jose may be average but he ain't horrible. That's an exaggeration I think. 29 homers looked pretty good during that stretch when we were turning the season around. Trust me he is horrible. He may be aggressive and have a lot of heart but he's not a solid ballplayer and doesn't contribute on a regular basis. The only way the White Sox will ever win anything next year is if we replace our weaknesses. One of our major weakness IMHO is Jose. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 If we're going to get Guillen we shouldn't have to give up Lee to get him. Considering that the Mariners are most likely going to sign Kaz Matsui, he should come pretty cheaply. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I didn't see Aaron Miles on anyone's list for 2B (unless I missed it). He's a decent hitter who's scrappy - but a below-average fielder. But he's CHEAP. That immediately gives him brownie points in JR's eyes. As for Alomar, unless he takes a huge paycut, he won't be back. Most of my suggestions are just speculation, as are most people's. I cannot wait until the winter meetings to see if Kenny Williams is going to be making moves, or just sitting there with his hands folded watching everyone else make moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I am sure he will make moves. Whether or not they are good is something else. Remember he is "aggressive" and when he wants something he goes for it. Atleast he thinks so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I know he's aggressive, but so is a kid who likes to fly into walls headfirst. I just hope he realizes that there are a LOT of holes to fill. It's not like we're weak in just one or two areas - man, there's a lot of cracks to patch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Jose has been a defensive liability at SS and I don't think this year is a sign of things to come. He will lose a step as he grows older and will make more mistakes. That and he can't hit worth a s***. He is a very very very below average batter that doesn't deserver to be on our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Robbie has to be gone. Willie Harris will be fine at second. Shortstop is a more more difficult question to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 If Matsui goes to Anaheim, David Eckstein would be available for a cheap price and I'd be in favor of getting him. He does nothing spectacular, but he's solid and he makes contact (unlike "swinging for the fences" Jose). He's also a scrappy guy who has played well in October before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 If Matsui goes to Anaheim, David Eckstein would be available for a cheap price and I'd be in favor of getting him. He does nothing spectacular, but he's solid and he makes contact (unlike "swinging for the fences" Jose). He's also a scrappy guy who has played well in October before. Knowing KW that's exactly what he'll do, he'll pull a A La Royce Clayton and trade for the former starter of the team that signs Matsui. (Seattle, Anaheim) CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 If Matsui goes to Anaheim, David Eckstein would be available for a cheap price and I'd be in favor of getting him. He does nothing spectacular, but he's solid and he makes contact (unlike "swinging for the fences" Jose). He's also a scrappy guy who has played well in October before. I would be very happy with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Im really not sure what will go down this offseason, there are so many moves that can be made, but will not be. I just hope KW is active this winter, and like someone else said, doesnt sit with his hands crossed and watches everyone else. He has to be, we have too many holes. He knows that. There will be some interesting FA and should be atleast one interesting trade action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 He has to be, we have too many holes. He knows that. There will be some interesting FA and should be atleast one interesting trade action. after what we saw in july, I am very confident, KW is gonnna try his hardest to better this team. I think he proved to all of us that he wants to win, badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 If Matsui goes to Anaheim, David Eckstein would be available for a cheap price and I'd be in favor of getting him. He does nothing spectacular, but he's solid and he makes contact (unlike "swinging for the fences" Jose). He's also a scrappy guy who has played well in October before. Eckstein is supposed to be moving to 2nd. I saw Kennedy interviewed a few days ago and he basically said he was gonna be leaving. Hinted at some goodbyes and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Bring Ozzie and Cora back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Robbie has to be gone. Willie Harris will be fine at second. Shortstop is a more more difficult question to answer. Jim, I love Willie Harris to death. However I still really like what Robbie brings to the table, he's still solid defensively and continues to get on base. As for Willie, let him play some outfield and infield. Than next year plug him in at second base. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 For whoever it was that mentioned Miles. My own personal opinion is that he will never ever be a starting second baseman, at least not for a winning team. The Sox need a leadoff hitter and Miles doesn't fit that bill. He'd be lucky to hit .260 at the major league level and beyond that he won't reach base. He'd probably have a .300 OBP, which absolutely sucks. As far as Alomar goes, he's only a bit better. With the Sox his OBP was pathetic for a leadoff hitter. Harris is just as capable and is a good defensive second baseman in his own right. I'd rather go cheap at 2nd and spend the money on someone like matsui/Cabrerra and then have Lofton or someone leadoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted October 27, 2003 Author Share Posted October 27, 2003 Hey 420 where have you been? i had to dispear i got in a little to much trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted October 27, 2003 Author Share Posted October 27, 2003 Hey 420 where have you been? i had to disapear i got in a little to much trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiaps6 Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I think it will be alomar valentin and borchard in center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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