Bob Sacamano Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Yea, I don’t see it. Not for what I would consider a marginal upgrade at best. You’ve got Eloy, Vaughn, Robert, Engel, Sheets, and Pollock fighting for 4 spots with Cespedes and Colas on the way next year. If you’re adding another OF, it better be a significant upgrade. It doesn’t have to be Soto, but at least someone on Brandon Nimmo’s level at least. Yeah I'd be all for Nimmo myself. Though Sheets, Pollock, Engel are guys I wouldn't count on fighting for 4 spots. Engel is a backup, Sheets is a DH and not needed if they grab a left-handed bat, and Pollock I don't really expect to be here or platoon at best, unless he turns it around this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 48 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Or we can keep running out an right handed heavy lineup that cannot hit RHP. Surely our luck will change in that regard eventually, right? Our team has been so poor against RHP this year we probably won't make the playoffs, but if we do, surely we'll be facing studly RHP. Let's just cross our fingers our free swinging RHH club decides to learn how to hit it effectively that series! Could it be that folks understand there is a problem and prefer a solution that isn't such a gamble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Never say never. Sox stuck him in A ball and now he's in AA he could mash there for 1.5 months and Sox promote him to AAA for September where he could mash for the rest of the season. Unlikely yes but there's even a chance if he keep mashing continuously that he called up some time in Sept. Early next year seems a real possibility unless he's traded. If you meant by a "few weeks left in the season" 2 months left in the season, that would be accurate. Birmingham's season ends Sept 18 and Charlotte's ends Sept. 28. Yes, anything is possible, but based on the way the Sox slow rolled his promotion (at least in Colas' eyes), without a team friendly deal in place I don't believe they are in any rush to start his clock. In terms of the minor league schedule, they typically end in late August / early September, but based on your post it sounds like they are running later because they likely started later w the lockout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Yeah I'd be all for Nimmo myself. Though Sheets, Pollock, Engel are guys I wouldn't count on fighting for 4 spots. Engel is a backup, Sheets is a DH and not needed if they grab a left-handed bat, and Pollock I don't really expect to be here or platoon at best, unless he turns it around this year. Sheets is a DH against RHP and should be rarely used as a backup 1b/OF. Engel and Pollock should see ~80 games next year. Robert and Vaughn should see 130+ games (really they should hardly sit if they’re healthy). Not counting on Eloy for much but if he gives 80 games between DH/LF that’s probably about all you can expect. Colas and Cespedes should be ready by Memorial Day 2023. Doesn’t leave room for another marginal upgrade unless you’re dumping two or three of the guys above. If you’re adding, it needs to be a clear upgrade at a starting position. Conforto, with all the uncertainties around him, isn’t that imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 14 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Yea, I don’t see it. Not for what I would consider a marginal upgrade at best. You’ve got Eloy, Vaughn, Robert, Engel, Sheets, and Pollock fighting for 4 spots with Cespedes and Colas on the way next year. If you’re adding another OF, it better be a significant upgrade. It doesn’t have to be Soto, but at least someone on Brandon Nimmo’s level at least. Yeah, you may wanna temper expectations a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Snopek said: Yeah, you may wanna temper expectations a bit. Why? Colas will be 24 and hitting very well in A+/AA. No reason he shouldn’t be ready this time next year. Cespedes will be 25 and hasn’t torn up AA but he’s at least held his own and should provide plus defense. Certainly enough to be a 5th OF type next year. Edited July 21, 2022 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Why? Colas will be 24 and hitting very well in A+/AA. No reason he shouldn’t be ready this time next year. Cespedes will be 25 and hasn’t torn up AA but he’s at least held his own and should provide plus defense. Certainly enough to be a 5th OF type next year. Injuries, slowed development, org wants to keep them down longer, part of a trade package. There are plenty of reasons. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just don't think they should be penciled in as part of the plan for next year. If they force the issue, that's a great problem to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Sheets is a DH against RHP and should be rarely used as a backup 1b/OF. Engel and Pollock should see ~80 games next year. Robert and Vaughn should see 130+ games (really they should hardly sit if they’re healthy). Not counting on Eloy for much but if he gives 80 games between DH/LF that’s probably about all you can expect. Colas and Cespedes should be ready by Memorial Day 2023. Doesn’t leave room for another marginal upgrade unless you’re dumping two or three of the guys above. If you’re adding, it needs to be a clear upgrade at a starting position. Conforto, with all the uncertainties around him, isn’t that imo. Hahn's plans the past three years of "hope for the best" with Mazara /Eaton / Sheets & Engel, with Jake Lamb and Brian Goodwin sprinkled in, isn't working. Sheets wouldn't even be on the roster if they had a credible LH starting RFer. Conforto's .824 OPS is better than everyone except Abreu (.856) and Robert (.833), and is much higher than what one could expect with either rookie breaking into the league. The window is shutting in a few more seasons, feel more comfortable going with a late 20s player than all the 30 something players Hahn and Tony have been stockpiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: Hahn's plans the past three years of "hope for the best" with Mazara /Eaton / Sheets & Engel, with Jake Lamb and Brian Goodwin sprinkled in, isn't working. Sheets wouldn't even be on the roster if they had a credible LH starting RFer. Conforto's .824 OPS is better than everyone except Abreu (.856) and Robert (.833), and is much higher than what one could expect with either rookie breaking into the league. The window is shutting in a few more seasons, feel more comfortable going with a late 20s player than all the 30 something players Hahn and Tony have been stockpiling. Conforto had an fWAR of 1.4 last season. Everyone here complains about Josh Harrison and he’s at 0.9 fWAR a little more than halfway into the season and presumably much cheaper than the contract Conforto will sign. Can’t have it both ways. If you want a real upgrade that will actually be noticeable, Conforto ain’t it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Snopek said: Injuries, slowed development, org wants to keep them down longer, part of a trade package. There are plenty of reasons. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just don't think they should be penciled in as part of the plan for next year. If they force the issue, that's a great problem to have. As of right now they aren’t. OF is full as is unless the Sox dump one of their controllable assets. Cespedes and Colas are minor league OF depth at a minimum and potential 4th/5th OF next season at best. Again, I don’t see Conforto being anything other than a marginal upgrade at best. Edited July 21, 2022 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 And for everyone citing Conforto’s career numbers just keep in mind past performance is not indicative of future results. We’re talking about a guy that put up 1.4 fWAR last season and 2.0 fWAR the season before. By next season he will be two years older than his 1.4 fWAR season and coming off an entire year of absence due to injury. If you drew the line in the sand at 1.4 fWAR for next season, I’d say betting odds are on the under. That doesn’t move the needle for this team. They need a real upgrade if they are adding an OF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Conforto had an fWAR of 1.4 last season. Everyone here complains about Josh Harrison and he’s at 0.9 fWAR a little more than halfway into the season and presumably much cheaper than the contract Conforto will sign. Can’t have it both ways. If you want a real upgrade that will actually be noticeable, Conforto ain’t it. So while you focus on his injury year, you ignore his previous years were 3.7, 2.7, 3.6 and 2.1 in a sixty game season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: And for everyone citing Conforto’s career numbers just keep in mind past performance is not indicative of future results. We’re talking about a guy that put up 1.4 fWAR last season and 2.0 fWAR the season before. By next season he will be two years older than his 1.4 fWAR season and coming off an entire year of absence due to injury. If you drew the line in the sand at 1.4 fWAR for next season, I’d say betting odds are on the under. That doesn’t move the needle for this team. They need a real upgrade if they are adding an OF. But by your own logic, we can't bring in anyone trustworthy because "past performance is not indicative of future results". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 44 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Sheets is a DH against RHP and should be rarely used as a backup 1b/OF. Engel and Pollock should see ~80 games next year. Robert and Vaughn should see 130+ games (really they should hardly sit if they’re healthy). Not counting on Eloy for much but if he gives 80 games between DH/LF that’s probably about all you can expect. Colas and Cespedes should be ready by Memorial Day 2023. Doesn’t leave room for another marginal upgrade unless you’re dumping two or three of the guys above. If you’re adding, it needs to be a clear upgrade at a starting position. Conforto, with all the uncertainties around him, isn’t that imo. Cespedes isn't very good at baseball and should be relied on for exactly nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: So while you focus on his injury year, you ignore his previous years were 3.7, 2.7, 3.6 and 2.1 in a six game season. That’s great. By the time next season rolls around, he will be 3 years removed from his last big season. Coming off a major injury in which he missed an entire season. What makes you think he will return to that form? What makes you think he will return to that form in the White Sox organization? Since they’ve had such great success with these types of signings in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: And for everyone citing Conforto’s career numbers just keep in mind past performance is not indicative of future results. We’re talking about a guy that put up 1.4 fWAR last season and 2.0 fWAR the season before. By next season he will be two years older than his 1.4 fWAR season and coming off an entire year of absence due to injury. If you drew the line in the sand at 1.4 fWAR for next season, I’d say betting odds are on the under. That doesn’t move the needle for this team. They need a real upgrade if they are adding an OF. Yet you want to focus on the smallest possible past performance and ignore the much larger sample size that doesn't fit your narrative. Convenient "analysis". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: But by your own logic, we can't bring in anyone trustworthy because "past performance is not indicative of future results". Give me Nimmo if you’re going to upgrade the OF. Not some guy coming off a major injury that hasn’t been better than an average starter in 2-3 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: That’s great. By the time next season rolls around, he will be 3 years removed from his last big season. Coming off a major injury in which he missed an entire season. What makes you think he will return to that form? What makes you think he will return to that form in the White Sox organization? Since they’ve had such great success with these types of signings in the past. Again, you are essentially saying we should do nothing with this logic. All of these things apply to any player. And yes if I am going to bet on a player being good, I would bet on a player who has been good in the past. That seems like a pretty simple and obvious standard, but sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Give me Nimmo if you’re going to upgrade the OF. Not some guy coming off a major injury that hasn’t been better than an average starter in 2-3 years. Nimmo would be a better fit than Conforto. Nimmo would be excellent. Difference is 1 isn't available right now, and the other difference is Nimmo will require far more years and dollars. Relevant differences in the scope of this conversation. Me thinks TONS of clubs are going to be after Nimmo this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Yet you want to focus on the smallest possible past performance and ignore the much larger sample size that doesn't fit your narrative. Convenient "analysis". How relevant is the larger sample size for a guy that’s missed an entire season due to injury and hasn’t performed better than an average starter since 2020? ”Convenient” to look at a larger sample size that really doesn’t matter much today. Are you friends with Scott Boras? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Nimmo would be a better fit than Conforto. Nimmo would be excellent. Difference is 1 isn't available right now, and the other difference is Nimmo will require far more years and dollars. Relevant differences in the scope of this conversation. Me thinks TONS of clubs are going to be after Nimmo this offseason. Yea, Conforto is available because he’s hurt. And I bet Conforto won’t come as cheap as you seem to think. No thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: How relevant is the larger sample size for a guy that’s missed an entire season due to injury and hasn’t performed better than an average starter since 2020? ”Convenient” to look at a larger sample size that really doesn’t matter much today. Are you friends with Scott Boras? He's 29 years old. He had a shoulder surgery, he didn't die. He'll be fine. Whoever signs him to this pillow contract is going to be quite happy. And no, I am not friends with SCott Boras. I am a die hard white sox fan that see's this team sucks donkey dick against RHP and BADLY needs help from the left side, something Conforto can provide EVEN IF HE DOESN'T IMPROVE on his 2021 numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: He's 29 years old. He had a shoulder surgery, he didn't die. He'll be fine. Whoever signs him to this pillow contract is going to be quite happy. And no, I am not friends with SCott Boras. I am a die hard white sox fan that see's this team sucks donkey dick against RHP and BADLY needs help from the left side, something Conforto can provide EVEN IF HE DOESN'T IMPROVE on his 2021 numbers. That’s a YUGE assumption. I’ll take the under on a 1.4 fWAR betting line for next season. That’s a marginal upgrade at best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: How relevant is the larger sample size for a guy that’s missed an entire season due to injury and hasn’t performed better than an average starter since 2020? ”Convenient” to look at a larger sample size that really doesn’t matter much today. Are you friends with Scott Boras? He was actually the definition of average in 2021 as a hitter. He had an OPS+ of 100. Against RHP he was at 117, or 17% ABOVE average. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Conforto had an fWAR of 1.4 last season. Everyone here complains about Josh Harrison and he’s at 0.9 fWAR a little more than halfway into the season and presumably much cheaper than the contract Conforto will sign. Can’t have it both ways. If you want a real upgrade that will actually be noticeable, Conforto ain’t it. What was his fWAR before last season? What was Harrisons fWAR before last season? I have a feeling they weren't close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.