The White Sox can't afford to have Eloy Jimenez and Yasmani Grandal crap the bed if/when they return

[VAfan]

Are the White Sox going to be better off in the second half if/when Eloy Jimenez and Yasmani Grandal return?  

So far this year, in 71 plate appearances over 19 games, Jimenez has put up a 53 WRC+ total. That's better than only Leury Garcia.

Yasmani Grandal has not done much better, with a 59 WRC+ over 201 PAs in 50 games.  That beats out Garcia, Jimenez, and Reese McGuire (58 WRC+).

It's like anticipating Lance Lynn's return, only to see him put up a 7.50 ERA over 7 games. 

With Grandal, the Sox at least have the hope he might play something closer to the second half of 2021, when he duked it out with Luis Robert for best hitter on the team.

With Jimenez, he had a very good August after returning from injury last year, but his Sept/Oct was pathetic, with a 68 OPS+.

Also, Grandal can replace Reese McGuire, who is one of the few hitters who has been worse than Grandal.  While who will Jimenez take ABs from?   If it's AJ Pollock and his 71 WRC+, it won't be much of a difference.  But is Jimenez a better choice against righties than Gavin Sheets, who has improved after a rough start, or Adam Engel, who has been on fire lately? 

The Sox can't really afford for these guys to spend a month trying to find their strokes.  They need to be hitting at least at career averages right out of the gate or they should spend more rehab time in AAA until they find their footing. 

[KrankinSox]

1 hour ago, VAfan said:

Are the White Sox going to be better off in the second half if/when Eloy Jimenez and Yasmani Grandal return?  

So far this year, in 71 plate appearances over 19 games, Jimenez has put up a 53 WRC+ total. That's better than only Leury Garcia.

Yasmani Grandal has not done much better, with a 59 WRC+ over 201 PAs in 50 games.  That beats out Garcia, Jimenez, and Reese McGuire (58 WRC+).

It's like anticipating Lance Lynn's return, only to see him put up a 7.50 ERA over 7 games. 

With Grandal, the Sox at least have the hope he might play something closer to the second half of 2021, when he duked it out with Luis Robert for best hitter on the team.

With Jimenez, he had a very good August after returning from injury last year, but his Sept/Oct was pathetic, with a 68 OPS+.

Also, Grandal can replace Reese McGuire, who is one of the few hitters who has been worse than Grandal.  While who will Jimenez take ABs from?   If it's AJ Pollock and his 71 WRC+, it won't be much of a difference.  But is Jimenez a better choice against righties than Gavin Sheets, who has improved after a rough start, or Adam Engel, who has been on fire lately? 

The Sox can't really afford for these guys to spend a month trying to find their strokes.  They need to be hitting at least at career averages right out of the gate or they should spend more rehab time in AAA until they find their footing. 

The Sox have so many veterans who have been completely useless. Guys who have good to great career track records, but are amongst the worst players in all of MLB in 2022. Off the top of my head:

Jimenez

Grandal

Moncada

Pollock

Lynn

Bummer

A little unfair to include Bummer as his numbers don't put him amongst the worst in baseball but his availability has been the issue. Giolito has also been disappointing but not to the extent of the guys mentioned above.

It's highly unlikely all 6 of these guys turn it around in the 2nd half but if the Sox are going to make any sort of deep run, they need probably at least 4 of them to get it together. 

Amongst the position players that I mentioned, here's how I'd rank the likelihood that they have a bounce back 2nd half and return to form:

Grandal

Moncada

Jimenez

Pollock

I still like Grandal and am optimistic that he will be good if his body feels good. Moncada has shown some flashes lately and seems to be making progress. I still like Eloy's bat better than Moncada but I need to see him in the lineup consistently before I have any faith in his ability to return to form. Pollock looks like toast but still holding on to a glimmer of hope he goes on a tear for a month or so.

[caulfield12]

https://nypost.com/2022/07/19/struggling-joey-gallo-seeks-return-to-norm-for-yankees/
 

“… I do know that there are a lot of teams that feel that Joey in their market and their uniform would be more of the normal than what he is in New York. But right now, he’s on a winning team, he’s on a team that’s doing very well, he can be a major contributor to it … and really the job of us is to get him most comfortable and get him back to being at his norm.”    Scott Boras

 

Well, there’s always the Gallo for Pollock trade…since Pollock can’t be much worse for the White Sox and Pollock has so much experience with championship-caliber teams in LA.

[T R U]

Hopefully Grandal is fully healthy now, he’s been killing it on his rehab assignment and we could really use that bat back in the lineup

[Tnetennba]

Name a team with all of these slow lumbering oaf DH types that actually won anything.  I’ll hang up and listen. 

[southsider2k5]

That's a lot of words for something incredibly obvious.

Also not many teams could afford losing 2 middle of the order bats at key positions 

[caulfield12]

37 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Name a team with all of these slow lumbering oaf DH types that actually won anything.  I’ll hang up and listen. 

2005 White Sox

Everett/Thomas Dye Crede Konerko AJ

Uribe and Iguchi average speed, Rowand above average then and Pods the only speedster.

 

That team still is slower than Robert, Moncada, Anderson, Engel, Leury…Sheets and Pollock with decent speed in the OF.  And even Burger and Abreu have gotten a number on infield/hustle hits.

Edited July 21, 2022 by caulfield12

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

2005 White Sox

Everett/Thomas Dye Crede Konerko AJ

Uribe and Iguchi average speed, Rowand above average then and Pods the only speedster.

 

That team still is slower than Robert, Moncada, Anderson, Engel, Leury…Sheets and Pollock with decent speed in the OF.  And even Burger and Abreu have gotten a number on infield/hustle hits.

Slow? yes. But most of those 2005 guys were not oaf DH types. Everett and Dye, sure. Thomas barely played that year. Konerko, AJ and Crede were all serviceable or better at their positions that I don't recall preferring to see them DH.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

2005 White Sox

Everett/Thomas Dye Crede Konerko AJ

Uribe and Iguchi average speed, Rowand above average then and Pods the only speedster.

 

That team still is slower than Robert, Moncada, Anderson, Engel, Leury…Sheets and Pollock with decent speed in the OF.  And even Burger and Abreu have gotten a number on infield/hustle hits.

Not even in the same stratosphere.

If Frank were healthy, there would be no Everett, so that doesn't count.  Frank was also an all time great so he would have played no matter what.  Dye was a passable RF in 2005, unlike Sheets, or Eloy, or AV out there.  AJ was a solid catcher and productive at the plate, he was also healthy enough to play nearly every day unlike Yaz.  Crede was a Gold Glove caliber 3B.  Paulie while slow AF, was good at 1B and produced.  None of these guys were square pegs in round holes.  The 2022 White Sox have about 5 guys that really should only DH on well constructed teams.  You sir, once again, are just talking out of your ass.

[greg775]

I kind of think Grandal is a bust. I have no hopes for him. I'd rather play Seby in 80 percent of the games and trade Grandal. I guess nobody in their right minds want Grandal though. $$.

Agreed on Eloy. Let's see what he can do ... again. Since we are in the lift and pull era he needs to lift and pull. We don't need ground outs, pop ups and a few singles and doubles from Eloy.

I'm not a Pollock guy either though I got obliterated on the board a while back when I ripped him during a 'hot streak.' People were furious.

Edited July 22, 2022 by greg775

[Greg Hibbard]

I’m not ready to look at Eloy’s sample size from this year and think it indicates anything. Even with his struggles / injuries, the guy still does produce at a 37 home run per 162 clip and has an 800+ OPS. If he can stay healthy, he will produce. 

Grandal, on the other hand….given Seby’s emergence as a semi legit offensive player I give Grandal a pretty short leash in the second half of he can’t get on base. If he can get on base, I don’t worry about his batting average or power. I’m worried about his eye right now. 

[South Side Hit Men]

 

14 hours ago, Snopek said:

Slow? yes. But most of those 2005 guys were not oaf DH types. Everett and Dye, sure. Thomas barely played that year. Konerko, AJ and Crede were all serviceable or better at their positions that I don't recall preferring to see them DH.

Yep. Konerko, Dye and Iguchi were slightly below average in terms of fangraphs advanced defensive ratings, but nowhere near the bottom. 

2005: C Pierzynski (7th among 21 qualified catchers); 1B Konerko (10th of 15); 2B Iguchi (12th of 18); 3B Crede (9th of 19); SS Uribe (4th of 25); LF Podsednik (3rd of 17); CF Rowand (2nd of 18); RF Dye (12th of 19).

The 2022 team only has three qualified players in terms of games/innings, Tim is bad and Robert second from last.

2022:  1B Abreu (5th of 20); SS Anderson (18th of 25); CF Robert (14th of 15)

Lowering the innings threshold to cast a wider 2022 net 250 innings year to date:

2022: C McGwire (9th of 47) / Grandal (28th of 47); 2B Harrison (6th of 35) / Leury (21st of 35); 3B Moncada (12th of 35) / Burger (34th of 35); LF Pollock (27th of 32); RF Engel (14th of 32) / Sheets (29th of 32)

Overall the 2005 White Sox as a team ranked 10th of 30 in team defense.

Tony La Russa's 2022 team ranks 28th of 30 in The MLB.

Sidebar:

7:30 - Greatest Home Run Call in White Sox History "JOOOOOOOOOEEEE CREEEEDDDDDEEEE"

Also the most consequential regular season win in White Sox History.

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by South Side Hit Men

[caulfield12]

20 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Not even in the same stratosphere.

If Frank were healthy, there would be no Everett, so that doesn't count.  Frank was also an all time great so he would have played no matter what.  Dye was a passable RF in 2005, unlike Sheets, or Eloy, or AV out there.  AJ was a solid catcher and productive at the plate, he was also healthy enough to play nearly every day unlike Yaz.  Crede was a Gold Glove caliber 3B.  Paulie while slow AF, was good at 1B and produced.  None of these guys were square pegs in round holes.  The 2022 White Sox have about 5 guys that really should only DH on well constructed teams.  You sir, once again, are just talking out of your ass.

Pollock won a Gold Glove in 2017.  Grandal was noted for his framing and always graded either positive or neutral.  Anderson Moncada and Robert all have the ability to be the best at their positions.

How do you explain how all those players, including Abreu, have regressed so much?

What did Robin Ventura, noted as one of the worst Sox managers of all time, do to turn the 2012 Sox defense from one of the worst in 2011 to one of the best in 2012 with many of the same players?

Why can't TLR and this coaching staff at least get them to be "average"?

Edited July 22, 2022 by caulfield12

[tray]

Eloy has been trying to rehab his leg for a while after surgery on the hamstring. He has been experiencing some tightness or pain in that leg since he started rehab in Charlotte. My hope is that the injury/rehab issue is resolved, but so far, that does not seem to be the case. I wonder if  the continued pain and tightness in that leg is a result of a surgery that was somehow not successful . Another possibility that has been already discussed here, is that the training staff and management  decided to bring him back to soon.

Eloy of not fat but if I were him  I would try to cut some weight to take some pressure off the leg. He looked like a stud in the outfield in that Futures game when he was lighter.

Sox need Eloy and Grandal in the line-up hitting home runs.

[harkness99]

people forget that Grandal had the highest OPS on the team last year...

Edited July 22, 2022 by harkness99

[Bob Sacamano]

9 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

people forget that Grandal has the highest OPS on the team last year...

Hopefully he comes back and is somewhere in the middle of second half 2021 and first half 2022. I wouldn’t expect his numbers to be as good as last year but better than he’s been the first half of this year.

[VAfan]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Eloy has been trying to rehab his leg for a while after surgery on the hamstring. He has been experiencing some tightness or pain in that leg since he started rehab in Charlotte. My hope is that the injury/rehab issue is resolved, but so far, that does not seem to be the case. I wonder if  the continued pain and tightness in that leg is a result of a surgery that was somehow not successful . Another possibility that has been already discussed here, is that the training staff and management  decided to bring him back to soon.

Eloy of not fat but if I were him  I would try to cut some weight to take some pressure off the leg. He looked like a stud in the outfield in that Futures game when he was lighter.

Sox need Eloy and Grandal in the line-up hitting home runs.

If Eloy is still hurting, he should be in AAA or rehabbing.