Fire Rick Hahn

[SonofaRoache]

I love how arguments get switched to defend Hahn. When we called Jerry cheap, the "high payroll" was used to defend him and the team. Now that Hahn's rear is to the fire and fans are holding him accountable for poor resource allocation of that "high payroll", it has turned into financial constraints limiting large contracts. I don't feel sorry for Hahn and his arrogant and condescending ass. He had plenty of money to work with and decided to spend it all on a crap bullpen, DK, Pollock, etc. Let's not forget we tanked to get the 4th overall pick which he drafted a guy with no power with. And then traded the player for Kimbrel and Pollock. This man literally threw a tank season out of the window. The clown also let Rodon walk for nothing when it was clear he wasn't going to sign the QO. 

[SonofaRoache]

21 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

If Hahn was just as pissed as us, he would realize it's a job he cannot do, whether that be  a lack of baseball instinct or any kind of restriction he is operating under. He would then resign. That comment, and I have heard him say it more than once, is just as empty as all the other comments he makes in public. But Rick and the White Sox don't care. They're right, everyone else is wrong. Actually winning games be danned.

I just read more Hahn speak prior to the season. My favorite quotes were:

"Jose Ruiz looked great for Venezuela and we are excited."

"Lynn dominated for team USA, that is a great sign."

"We want to prove we are the team from 2020 and 2021, and not 2022." (lol Rick these seasons weren't THAT good)

"We have something to prove and hold ourselves accountable."

 

[WBWSF]

10 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

September 15, 1990 - Owner Jerry Reinsdorf fired G.M. Larry Himes citing ‘personality differences.’ Himes drafted and signed Sox future stars like Frank Thomas, Jack McDowell, Robin Ventura and Alex Fernandez. During the press conference announcing the hiring of Ron Schueler as new G.M., Reinsdorf issued his famous ‘Point A to point B to point C’ comment. Later in a rare radio appearance he was candid on the subject to host Chet Coppock. “The fact is Larry Himes cannot get along with anybody. You can hardly find anybody in the Sox organization that wasn’t happy when Larry Himes left.”

Many years ago George Weiss was the Yankees GM. He created a dynasty with the Yankees in the 1940s-1950s.  Nobody liked him but the Yankee owners didn't care. Weiss did his job very well and wound up in the MLB HOF. I knew some people who worked for the White Sox who liked Himes. Fact is JR didn't like him so Himes lost his job. He now has Hahn as his GM simply because  he likes him.  Hahn has been a terrible GM just as JR has been a terrible owner.  They both deserve each other.

[baseball_gal_aly]

 

[SonofaRoache]

3 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

 

Baez had a few great seasons offensively, we shall see what Robert can do. It's not looking good though for him, Eloy, and Yoan to be offensive stars. 

[South Side Hit Men]

7 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

 

Yikes:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/roberlu01.shtml

Similar Batters through 24

1. Austin Kearns (970.0) 

2. J.D. Drew (967.1)

3. Hank Leiber (963.8) 

4. Gabe Kapler (962.6) 

5. George Bell (962.4)

[JoeC]

My main and consistent beef with this org is the complete lack of emphasis on player development.

Prior to Project Birmingham last year (note - is that still even a thing?) I've never once seen any evidence of the organization drafting, fostering, and growing talent in a way that grooms players to make the most of their skills and improves on their weaknesses to a point where they can't be consistently exploited (I'm looking at you, slider-chasers... aka our entire fucking lineup).

I don't know if it's an edict on JR's part NOT to put resources into minor leagues.

I don't know if it's Hahn's decision to direct resources away from the minor leagues / player development budget... or if it's Hahn's lack of foresight to develop and execute a cohesive player development strategy.

Fact is, we can sit here and cry foul about payroll caps, but we can also point to teams like Oakland, Tampa, Cleveland, and Minny who consistently churn out quality players who they can sell at peak value to restock their farm system.

Yes - JR is a shitty owner, but, unless there's some top-down edict saying that no player development should take place, Hahn has clearly shown that he's just a s%*# GM who doesn't know how to build a winning team. I will argue up and down that he inherited a s%*# team / s%*# core / s%*# farm system and that any sensible GM would have had to rebuild when he did, but what he's shown since the 2021 trade deadlines (note: I was in favor of the Kimbrel trade that turned out horrendous) is that he is in over his head.

...and if JR IS hamstringing him on the farm system? It's the job of executives to manage upwards and convince those above them that a change in strategy is needed. Hahn has clearly failed at that, too.

[Tony]

6 minutes ago, JoeC said:

My main and consistent beef with this org is the complete lack of emphasis on player development.

Prior to Project Birmingham last year (note - is that still even a thing?) I've never once seen any evidence of the organization drafting, fostering, and growing talent in a way that grooms players to make the most of their skills and improves on their weaknesses to a point where they can't be consistently exploited (I'm looking at you, slider-chasers... aka our entire fucking lineup).

I don't know if it's an edict on JR's part NOT to put resources into minor leagues.

I don't know if it's Hahn's decision to direct resources away from the minor leagues / player development budget... or if it's Hahn's lack of foresight to develop and execute a cohesive player development strategy.

Fact is, we can sit here and cry foul about payroll caps, but we can also point to teams like Oakland, Tampa, Cleveland, and Minny who consistently churn out quality players who they can sell at peak value to restock their farm system.

Yes - JR is a shitty owner, but, unless there's some top-down edict saying that no player development should take place, Hahn has clearly shown that he's just a s%*# GM who doesn't know how to build a winning team. I will argue up and down that he inherited a s%*# team / s%*# core / s%*# farm system and that any sensible GM would have had to rebuild when he did, but what he's shown since the 2021 trade deadlines (note: I was in favor of the Kimbrel trade that turned out horrendous) is that he is in over his head.

...and if JR IS hamstringing him on the farm system? It's the job of executives to manage upwards and convince those above them that a change in strategy is needed. Hahn has clearly failed at that, too.

Very well put, Joe. 

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

My main and consistent beef with this org is the complete lack of emphasis on player development.

Prior to Project Birmingham last year (note - is that still even a thing?) I've never once seen any evidence of the organization drafting, fostering, and growing talent in a way that grooms players to make the most of their skills and improves on their weaknesses to a point where they can't be consistently exploited (I'm looking at you, slider-chasers... aka our entire fucking lineup).

I don't know if it's an edict on JR's part NOT to put resources into minor leagues.

I don't know if it's Hahn's decision to direct resources away from the minor leagues / player development budget... or if it's Hahn's lack of foresight to develop and execute a cohesive player development strategy.

Fact is, we can sit here and cry foul about payroll caps, but we can also point to teams like Oakland, Tampa, Cleveland, and Minny who consistently churn out quality players who they can sell at peak value to restock their farm system.

Yes - JR is a shitty owner, but, unless there's some top-down edict saying that no player development should take place, Hahn has clearly shown that he's just a s%*# GM who doesn't know how to build a winning team. I will argue up and down that he inherited a s%*# team / s%*# core / s%*# farm system and that any sensible GM would have had to rebuild when he did, but what he's shown since the 2021 trade deadlines (note: I was in favor of the Kimbrel trade that turned out horrendous) is that he is in over his head.

...and if JR IS hamstringing him on the farm system? It's the job of executives to manage upwards and convince those above them that a change in strategy is needed. Hahn has clearly failed at that, too.

Personally, I think "Project Birmingham" was more a publicity stunt than anything else. Their system gets hammered by every evaluator. They do have a few interesting prospects though. I think they wanted to take the emphasis off of how little their system is valued in the industry. 

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, baseballgalaly said:

 

He’s not wrong, but OUCH. 

[Jerry McNertney]

In this week's power rankings, the White Sox are #23. How's the rebuild going?

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

My main and consistent beef with this org is the complete lack of emphasis on player development.

Prior to Project Birmingham last year (note - is that still even a thing?) I've never once seen any evidence of the organization drafting, fostering, and growing talent in a way that grooms players to make the most of their skills and improves on their weaknesses to a point where they can't be consistently exploited (I'm looking at you, slider-chasers... aka our entire fucking lineup).

I don't know if it's an edict on JR's part NOT to put resources into minor leagues.

I don't know if it's Hahn's decision to direct resources away from the minor leagues / player development budget... or if it's Hahn's lack of foresight to develop and execute a cohesive player development strategy.

Fact is, we can sit here and cry foul about payroll caps, but we can also point to teams like Oakland, Tampa, Cleveland, and Minny who consistently churn out quality players who they can sell at peak value to restock their farm system.

Yes - JR is a shitty owner, but, unless there's some top-down edict saying that no player development should take place, Hahn has clearly shown that he's just a s%*# GM who doesn't know how to build a winning team. I will argue up and down that he inherited a s%*# team / s%*# core / s%*# farm system and that any sensible GM would have had to rebuild when he did, but what he's shown since the 2021 trade deadlines (note: I was in favor of the Kimbrel trade that turned out horrendous) is that he is in over his head.

...and if JR IS hamstringing him on the farm system? It's the job of executives to manage upwards and convince those above them that a change in strategy is needed. Hahn has clearly failed at that, too.

Spot on!

[4uckOffCommieScum]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

But what happened after that solid but not as dominating  season? 

He became an albatross contract that was essentially unmoveable. 

JR was trying to make a political point to owners but didn't necessarily want Belle on the team long-term.  He wasn't a marketing star because of his prickly personality and past run ins with fans dating back to LSU.

Robin Ventura would depart for the Mets the subsequent season... White Flag year, etc. 

 

The .882 was over two seasons. He only had three seasons left at time he opted out with Sox, he signed the five year deal with the O’s after he became a free agent

[Tnetennba]

The current draft pool slot system has been in effect since what, 2015 or 2016?  And in that time the Sox tanked and had several years worth of high draft picks.  Yet in all of that time they still don’t have a competent minor league system producing MLB regulars.  Not even superstars, just average major leaguers.  Fire the whole fucking front office into the sun already. 

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, JoeC said:

My main and consistent beef with this org is the complete lack of emphasis on player development.

Prior to Project Birmingham last year (note - is that still even a thing?) I've never once seen any evidence of the organization drafting, fostering, and growing talent in a way that grooms players to make the most of their skills and improves on their weaknesses to a point where they can't be consistently exploited (I'm looking at you, slider-chasers... aka our entire fucking lineup).

I don't know if it's an edict on JR's part NOT to put resources into minor leagues.

I don't know if it's Hahn's decision to direct resources away from the minor leagues / player development budget... or if it's Hahn's lack of foresight to develop and execute a cohesive player development strategy.

Fact is, we can sit here and cry foul about payroll caps, but we can also point to teams like Oakland, Tampa, Cleveland, and Minny who consistently churn out quality players who they can sell at peak value to restock their farm system.

Yes - JR is a shitty owner, but, unless there's some top-down edict saying that no player development should take place, Hahn has clearly shown that he's just a s%*# GM who doesn't know how to build a winning team. I will argue up and down that he inherited a s%*# team / s%*# core / s%*# farm system and that any sensible GM would have had to rebuild when he did, but what he's shown since the 2021 trade deadlines (note: I was in favor of the Kimbrel trade that turned out horrendous) is that he is in over his head.

...and if JR IS hamstringing him on the farm system? It's the job of executives to manage upwards and convince those above them that a change in strategy is needed. Hahn has clearly failed at that, too.

Spot on points! I am quite confident there is not edict from JR to not develop a farm system. RH has simply hired the wrong people below him in his FO to properly build the farm system. RH of course not only didn't hire the right people, but has no clue what that blueprint from start to finish looks like in developing a productive farm system. 

JR did spend the money for RH. The Sox have the 12th highest payroll in MLB. RH spent the money horribly wrong. 

Other baseball teams do it right spending half the Sox payroll or less. We just don't have the right FO people. Unfortunately we have a uncaring senile owner who is clueless and doesn't give a crap about his team or fans.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[Vote4Pedro]

Stirring the pot in 3….2…1…. Didnt know if this needed it’s own thread but RH and JR has no one to blame now 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

No s%*#, Jon.

[Quin]

On 4/16/2023 at 8:18 PM, Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm said:

can we turn this into a "Rick Hahn the kinda guy to" thread??

Rick Hahn the kinda guy to ask ChatGPT how to fix his team. 

Ok, I apparently haven't opened this thread in a minute because this was the first post I saw and I didn't see anyone try it.

Quote

Focus on player development: The White Sox could invest more resources into developing their existing players and prospects. This could involve improving their training facilities, hiring experienced coaches and trainers, and providing opportunities for young players to gain experience at the major league level.

Target key areas for improvement: The team could assess its weaknesses and look to acquire players who can address those areas. For example, if the team is struggling with pitching, they could look to acquire a proven pitcher via trade or free agency.

Build a strong team culture: Winning teams often have a strong sense of camaraderie and team spirit. The White Sox could work to build a positive team culture by promoting good communication, fostering a sense of accountability, and rewarding players for their hard work and dedication.

Invest in analytics: Baseball is increasingly becoming a data-driven sport, and the White Sox could benefit from investing in advanced analytics to help inform their decision-making. By analyzing data on player performance, the team could make more informed decisions on which players to acquire and how to optimize their roster.

Ultimately, there are many factors that can contribute to a team's success, and there is no one-size-fits-all solution. The White Sox will need to carefully assess their strengths and weaknesses and develop a strategic plan for improving their performance over the long term.

If the bold ain't the truth.

[ShoeLessRob]

Anyone remember the show, “Pimp My Ride”? It later came out that believe it or not the “reality” show was… fake! The cars themselves were not even functional, but they slapped crazy ass things on them to make them “pimped” out. 
 

That’s basically the Sox. Lots of fancy/shiny pieces, but the vehicle itself is a POS. Last year you had an old drunk behind the wheel of this monstrosity and this year you have a 15 year old with his drivers permit who doesn’t know how to drive stick shift.

[Chimpton]

16 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Anyone remember the show, “Pimp My Ride”? It later came out that believe it or not the “reality” show was… fake! The cars themselves were not even functional, but they slapped crazy ass things on them to make them “pimped” out. 
 

That’s basically the Sox. Lots of fancy/shiny pieces, but the vehicle itself is a POS. Last year you had an old drunk behind the wheel of this monstrosity and this year you have a 15 year old with his drivers permit who doesn’t know how to drive stick shift.

I would dispute this bit, even the fancy/shiny pieces are broken or clapped out parts!

[Tnetennba]

55 minutes ago, Vote4Pedro said:

Stirring the pot in 3….2…1…. Didnt know if this needed it’s own thread but RH and JR has no one to blame now 

No Jon, this should read TLR wasn't the White Sox *only* issue in 2022.  

Let's not let anyone whitewash how awful TLR was, how he was always the wrong fit, and how poor a decision it was to drag is pickled corpse out of retirement.   Brining him back set the franchise back, but so did the decision to go backwards by hiring him.  He was catastrophically bad, but was also a symptom of the greater illness.  

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Many years ago George Weiss was the Yankees GM. He created a dynasty with the Yankees in the 1940s-1950s.  Nobody liked him but the Yankee owners didn't care. Weiss did his job very well and wound up in the MLB HOF. I knew some people who worked for the White Sox who liked Himes. Fact is JR didn't like him so Himes lost his job. He now has Hahn as his GM simply because  he likes him.  Hahn has been a terrible GM just as JR has been a terrible owner.  They both deserve each other.

But it is the fan base that's paying the price. 

[Dick Allen]

39 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

No Jon, this should read TLR wasn't the White Sox *only* issue in 2022.  

Let's not let anyone whitewash how awful TLR was, how he was always the wrong fit, and how poor a decision it was to drag is pickled corpse out of retirement.   Brining him back set the franchise back, but so did the decision to go backwards by hiring him.  He was catastrophically bad, but was also a symptom of the greater illness.  

I still think the LaRussa stench is on this team. It was a horrible hire. i think guys like Heyman know it but don't want to come across as an ageist, if that's a word. But there were a lot of other issues. Relying on players who are always hurt to remain healthy, a rookie in RF, a 2B who has been Leury Garcia level for 4 or 5 years, not doing much with the bullpen even when your star was going to miss time, is not how organizations who usually win, operate. With the White Sox, it's the business model. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

49 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

No Jon, this should read TLR wasn't the White Sox *only* issue in 2022.  

Let's not let anyone whitewash how awful TLR was, how he was always the wrong fit, and how poor a decision it was to drag is pickled corpse out of retirement.   Brining him back set the franchise back, but so did the decision to go backwards by hiring him.  He was catastrophically bad, but was also a symptom of the greater illness.  

Don't tell Harry that..

[thedoctor]

i'm sure this has been well-covered elsewhere, but by far my biggest beef with hahn is how he squanders the already small resources he has. he came up through this org so he knows as well as anyone that second-place jerry isn't going to give him a big-boy budget. and yet he consistently spends the small amount of money he does have poorly. the bullpen expenditures are mind-numbing when year-in, year-out we see teams create great bullpens out of nothing. there's zero need to make that where all your cash sits. it's just dumb.