Fire Rick Hahn

[South Side Hit Men]

10 hours ago, baseballgalaly said:

 

Birmingham Manager Lorenzo Buddy was asked about Edgar Quero’s walk during his second game with his club during their 9-4 loss, the club’s 61st loss of the season.

”Our coaching staff is here to teach the White Sox way, the Ozzie Guillen way. We instruct every hitter to always swing aggressive and that it is far better to make an out than to take a walk.”

"There will be a consequence he has to endure here within our family," the manager said. "It's a learning experience."

"I'm certain that will not happen again with Edgar," Buddy said. "It's a manager's responsibility. It's a teaching moment. You want them to understand why there's a swing sign in that situation.”

[Timmy U]

7 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Birmingham Manager Lorenzo Buddy was asked about Edgar Quero’s walk during his second game with his club during their 9-4 loss, the club’s 61st loss of the season.

”Our coaching staff is here to teach the White Sox way, the Ozzie Guillen way. We instruct every hitter to always swing aggressive and that it is far better to make an out than to take a walk.”

"There will be a consequence he has to endure here within our family," the manager said. "It's a learning experience."

"I'm certain that will not happen again with Edgar," Buddy said. "It's a manager's responsibility. It's a teaching moment. You want them to understand why there's a swing sign in that situation.”

Is this a joke or did he really say that?

[T R U]

Just now, Timmy U said:

Is this a joke or did he really say that?

That is clearly a joke.

[pcq]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

The dysfunctional White Sox way: Stupid is as Stupid Does!

This is definitely why our farm system sucks and our major league roster is 43-67 and probably going to lose 100 games or more.

They said way back when they were cutting staff.

[Kyyle23]

8 minutes ago, T R U said:

That is clearly a joke.

A bad one 

[Timmy U]

Man, I wonder how many analysts you could pay with all the dead money they have from bad mid-tier FA signings like Keuchel, Grandal, Leury etc.  Pennywise, pound foolish.

[The Kids Can Play]

15 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Just got done listening to the latest Podcast by Chuck, he had Jim Callis on for the full 45 minutes.

Callis said they would move the Sox system up to the mid-teens after the deals and they do now have a good amount of talent and options at catcher and left handed pitcher.

Said Montgomery and Schultz are going to both be very good.

Thinks the Sox had a solid, deep draft and would have put several of those selections on the Sox Top 30 list before all the trades.

 

 

I appreciate you posting the Chuck-Callis podcast as I always enjoy them. However I am not buying that the Sox putrid farm system deserves to go to the mid teens. I agree Schulz, Montgomery and a few others currently in our system are going to be future stars hopefully. However a farm system is based on all levels. The AAA and AA are the worst in their divisions. The high A and Low A levels are middle of the pack or a bit higher in some areas. Although hitting is good at Winston-Salem, the pitching is near the bottom. 

My point is a few good prospects they just acquired, cannot make up for the horrific stats in the the higher levels. Plus as was posted, none of the new additions are doing that great. Regardless of that though, how do a few of these new prospects ( and we'll give the benefit of the doubt they will be good) make up for the following:

Charlotte - In 20 team Intl league - W-L - 40-65 - 20th

Offense
Runs #20
2B - #14
HR's #17
Walks #20
BA #17
OBP #20
SLG #20
OPS #20

Pitching
ERA #20
Walks - 2nd most given
HR's - 2nd most given up
WHIP #20
BA #20

Birmingham - In 8 team Sothern league - W-L - 34-65 - 8th

Offense
Runs #7
2B #8
HR's #4
Walks #6
BA #6
OBP #8
SLG #7
OPS #7

Pitching
ERA #8
Hits #8
Walks - 1st - Most given up
HR's - 4th - Most given up
WHIP - #8
BA #8

Winston-Salem - 12 team South Atlantic league - 46-48 - 9th 

Hitting 
Runs #6
Runs #4
2B - #5
HR's - #9
Walks- #6
BA #10
SLG - #6
OPS - #6

Pitching
ERA #11
Hits #4
Walks - 5th - Most given up
HR's - 9th - Most given up
WHIP - #11

The Sox are probably going to lose 100 games or more in 2023. They will also probably lose another 100 in 2024. As many have pointed out, I'm not sure they are a playoff team in 2025 either. 

I get Jim Callis represents MLB.com and MLB.pipeline.com, but there are also others including Baseball America that do rankings. BA doesn't always agree on rankings with MLB. I know for a fact, in that last top 100 prospects posted, there were major disagreements in prospect rankings between the two.

I know the only way to prove this one way or another, is when we see these Sox prospects make the major league level and be productive. I personally don't see that happening quickly, especially if the worst GM in baseball is still around. I hope I am wrong, as I'm tired of losing, but nothing this owner and front office have done has may me very confident that the farm system gets drastically improved over the next few years.

Keep in mind just because the Sox have some additional new prospects, doesn't mean they will develop them properly. As we all know, the Sox player development is one the worst in baseball. The bottom line is, until we get a new FO from a successful outside org and all new coaches in the minors, we are not going to be a World Series contender for a long time. 

[SoCalChiSox]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

 

Very tough to develop anyone that way. JR doesn't want to pay for another 50-60 employees, I don't know what they earn but assuming they are paid reasonably well, that's prolly somewhere around 10 million (assuming an avg of 200k I dunno if that would be accurate for those positions) roughly, not including retirement, benefits, it could be alot more than 10m in that case.

Seriously, just figure out what it would cost to hire a legit analytics and farm development staff taking some from each of the best clubs, cut it from the team payroll if need be and then let the chips fall. At most it's what another 20 million? 

I think most of us would be ok with a payroll at 150-160 instead of 180 if we reinvested that money on up and coming minor league development staff, coaches, analysts and analytics infrastructure. Hire a couple from LAD, TB, BAL, CLE etc. JR will make the money back and much more....in fact he could probably end up being very competitive with a payroll much less than 150-160 if he made a serious investment in infrastructure so I don't understand his cost/benefit analysis here. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by SoCalChiSox

[The Kids Can Play]

7 minutes ago, pcq said:

They said way back when they were cutting staff.

Go see how many are on staff for the Dodgers compared to the Sox? Smart winning owners don't cut staff on critical areas that help you win. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

Hahaha

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Very tough to develop anyone that way. JR doesn't want to pay for another 50-60 employees, I don't know what they earn but assuming they are paid reasonably well, that's prolly somewhere around 10 million (assuming an avg of 200k I dunno if that would be accurate for those positions) roughly, not including retirement, benefits, it could be alot more than 10m in that case.

Seriously, just figure out what it would cost to hire a legit analytics and farm development staff taking some from each of the best clubs, cut it from the team payroll if need be and then let the chips fall. At most it's what another 20 million? 

I think most of us would be ok with a payroll at 150-160 instead of 180 if we reinvested that money on up and coming minor league development staff, coaches, analysts and analytics infrastructure. Hire a couple from LAD, TB, BAL, CLE etc. JR will make the money back and much more....in fact he could probably end up being very competitive with a payroll much less than 150-160 if he made a serious investment in infrastructure so I don't understand his cost/benefit analysis here. 

Supply and demand.

Probably looking at way more $50-75000 salaries.

[Capn12]

I saw this from Jay Cuda, and ....well....it really makes sense with the product we see on the field

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

11 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Very tough to develop anyone that way. JR doesn't want to pay for another 50-60 employees, I don't know what they earn but assuming they are paid reasonably well, that's prolly somewhere around 10 million (assuming an avg of 200k I dunno if that would be accurate for those positions) roughly, not including retirement, benefits, it could be alot more than 10m in that case.

Seriously, just figure out what it would cost to hire a legit analytics and farm development staff taking some from each of the best clubs, cut it from the team payroll if need be and then let the chips fall. At most it's what another 20 million? 

I think most of us would be ok with a payroll at 150-160 instead of 180 if we reinvested that money on up and coming minor league development staff, coaches, analysts and analytics infrastructure. Hire a couple from LAD, TB, BAL, CLE etc. JR will make the money back and much more....in fact he could probably end up being very competitive with a payroll much less than 150-160 if he made a serious investment in infrastructure so I don't understand his cost/benefit analysis here. 

Jerry would rather have one Leury Garcia than 40 front office employees.  It’s why we’ll be in baseball hell until Jerry finally exits this organization.8

[South Side Hit Men]

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:38 AM, The Kids Can Play said:

I appreciate you posting the Chuck-Callis podcast as I always enjoy them. However I am not buying that the Sox putrid farm system deserves to go to the mid teens. I agree Schulz, Montgomery and a few others currently in our system are going to be future stars hopefully. However a farm system is based on all levels. The AAA and AA are the worst in their divisions. The high A and Low A levels are middle of the pack or a bit higher in some areas. Although hitting is good at Winston-Salem, the pitching is near the bottom. 

My point is a few good prospects they just acquired, cannot make up for the horrific stats in the the higher levels. Plus as was posted, none of the new additions are doing that great. Regardless of that though, how do a few of these new prospects ( and we'll give the benefit of the doubt they will be good) make up for the following:

Charlotte - In 20 team Intl league - W-L - 40-65 - 20th

Offense
Runs #20
2B - #14
HR's #17
Walks #20
BA #17
OBP #20
SLG #20
OPS #20

Pitching
ERA #20
Walks - 2nd most given
HR's - 2nd most given up
WHIP #20
BA #20

Birmingham - In 8 team Sothern league - W-L - 34-65 - 8th

Offense
Runs #7
2B #8
HR's #4
Walks #6
BA #6
OBP #8
SLG #7
OPS #7

Pitching
ERA #8
Hits #8
Walks - 1st - Most given up
HR's - 4th - Most given up
WHIP - #8
BA #8

Winston-Salem - 12 team South Atlantic league - 46-48 - 9th 

Hitting 
Runs #6
Runs #4
2B - #5
HR's - #9
Walks- #6
BA #10
SLG - #6
OPS - #6

Pitching
ERA #11
Hits #4
Walks - 5th - Most given up
HR's - 9th - Most given up
WHIP - #11

The Sox are probably going to lose 100 games or more in 2023. They will also probably lose another 100 in 2024. As many have pointed out, I'm not sure they are a playoff team in 2025 either. 

I get Jim Callis represents MLB.com and MLB.pipeline.com, but there are also others including Baseball America that do rankings. BA doesn't always agree on rankings with MLB. I know for a fact, in that last top 100 prospects posted, there were major disagreements in prospect rankings between the two.

I know the only way to prove this one way or another, is when we see these Sox prospects make the major league level and be productive. I personally don't see that happening quickly, especially if the worst GM in baseball is still around. I hope I am wrong, as I'm tired of losing, but nothing this owner and front office have done has may me very confident that the farm system gets drastically improved over the next few years.

Keep in mind just because the Sox have some additional new prospects, doesn't mean they will develop them properly. As we all know, the Sox player development is one the worst in baseball. The bottom line is, until we get a new FO from a successful outside org and all new coaches in the minors, we are not going to be a World Series contender for a long time. 

People believe lots of stuff that isn’t true. You’re entitled to do the same. The White Sox system is absolutely in the 12-16 range right now though. 

[The Kids Can Play]

18 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

People believe lots of stuff that isn’t true. You’re entitled to do the same. The White Sox system is absolutely in the 12-16 range right now though. 

I appreciate your confidence, but until they actually publish and update the most recent farm system rankings, I think your 12-16 projection is too aggressive of a change. There is no way they will be #12 as your high end projection. Until we all see the report from Baseball America, which seems to be the most valid source, I will stick with my theory and opinion that a few additions will not change this horrible Sox farm system that drastically. Maybe low 20's or high teens.

Again I am not stating my theory without facts. I posted for you the AAA, AA and high A stats for both pitching and hitting, which still makes up the large majority of Sox prospects. They are pitiful and near the bottom in so many critical areas. 

Yes with Schulz and Montgomery along with potentially a few good new prospects they are getting better. Yet they not are major ready. Several of the new prospects added have done horrible thus far in their first appeances in minor league Sox uniforms. 

As you said, I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours. I also appreciate you spend a lot of time watching and posting for SoxTalk, the status of these Sox prospects and scores in all four leagues. I don't watch the games as closely like you, but I do check the box scores, standings and stats and I feel I am fairly familiar with our farm system.

The bottom line is you telling me the Sox farm system soon will absolutely be ranked 12-16 is your opinion, which you have the right to. The fact is, neither one of us has seen the newest rankings. If Baseball America changes them from 26 to 13, then I will admit I was wrong and you were right. If it's not as you predict, I would hope you would do the same back.

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

People believe lots of stuff that isn’t true. You’re entitled to do the same. The White Sox system is absolutely in the 12-16 range right now though. 

Kiley McDaniel said he had them at 12th last week.

[The Kids Can Play]

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Kiley McDaniel said he had them at 12th last week.

With all due respect, Kiley McDaniel is a baseball writer for ESPN and one person. ESPN is not the gospel on baseball prospect rankings like Baseball America is. Again this is all speculation, we all need to slow down a tad and wait until the published rankings come out. An individual or two saying their opinions is not the official baseball rankings.

It just doesn't make any sense with this Sox horrible farm system, adding these new prospects will move them from their previous and current ranking of 26 to 12. If you believe that, then you really haven't been the checking the minors closely with the Sox teams at all four levels. Just go look up each team and check their stats and records compared to their opponents in terms of ERA's and hitting.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I appreciate your confidence, but until they actually publish and update the most recent farm system rankings, I think your 12-16 projection is too aggressive of a change. There is no way they will be #12 as your high end projection. Until we all see the report from Baseball America, which seems to be the most valid source, I will stick with my theory and opinion that a few additions will not change this horrible Sox farm system that drastically. Maybe low 20's or high teens.

Again I am not stating my theory without facts. I posted for you the AAA, AA and high A stats for both pitching and hitting, which still makes up the large majority of Sox prospects. They are pitiful and near the bottom in so many critical areas. 

Yes with Schulz and Montgomery along with potentially a few good new prospects they are getting better. Yet they not are major ready. Several of the new prospects added have done horrible thus far in their first appeances in minor league Sox uniforms. 

As you said, I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours. I also appreciate you spend a lot of time watching and posting for SoxTalk, the status of these Sox prospects and scores in all four leagues. I don't watch the games as closely like you, but I do check the box scores, standings and stats and I feel I am fairly familiar with our farm system.

The bottom line is you telling me the Sox farm system soon will absolutely be ranked 12-16 is your opinion, which you have the right to. The fact is, neither one of us has seen the newest rankings. If Baseball America changes them from 26 to 13, then I will admit I was wrong and you were right. If it's not as you predict, I would hope you would do the same back.

 

7 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

With all due respect, Kiley McDaniel is a baseball writer for ESPN and one person. ESPN is not the gospel on baseball prospect rankings like Baseball America is. Again this is all speculation, we all need to slow down a tad and wait until the published rankings come out. An individual or two saying their opinions is not the official baseball rankings.

It just doesn't make any sense with this Sox horrible farm system, adding these new prospects will move them from their previous and current ranking of 26 to 12. If you believe that, then you really haven't been the checking the minors closely with the Sox teams at all four levels. Just go look up each team and check their stats and records compared to their opponents in terms of ERA's and hitting.

Longenhagen if Fangraphs has them at 13. Kiley will have them 12. MLB Pipeline will have them middle of the pack. Baseball America is the highest in the industry on Noah Schultz. It makes plenty of sense. You just have no idea what you’re talking about 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Y2Jimmy0

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

 

Longenhagen if Fangraphs has them at 13. Kiley will have them 12. MLB Pipeline will have them middle of the pack. Baseball America is the highest in the industry on Noah Schultz. It makes plenty of sense. You just have no idea what you’re talking about 

Ok Mr. Expert on rankings. I will wait until Baseball America comes out.

According to all this massive farm system improvement to #12 from 26, I assume you are predicting the Sox will be in the playoffs in 2024! LOL!

Btw Fangraphs is great for baseball analytics, but they are not the bible on prospects rankings that GM's go by. 

[South Side Hit Men]

All I know is the Sox were a Top Five Farm System, possibly number one, prior to their "multiple championship competitive window", and that translated to absolute dick at the MLB level.

If you have the same owner and front office types like Hahn running the show, this will happen with the next batch of prospects.

[Y2Jimmy0]

7 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Ok Mr. Expert on rankings. I will wait until Baseball America comes out.

According to all this massive farm system improvement to #12 from 26, I assume you are predicting the Sox will be in the playoffs in 2024! LOL!

Btw Fangraphs is great for baseball analytics, but they are not the bible on prospects rankings that GM's go by. 

Where are you expecting Baseball America to have them? You do realize that they’ve added like 8-10 guys to their top 30 via the draft and trades. That’s the difference. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I appreciate your confidence, but until they actually publish and update the most recent farm system rankings, I think your 12-16 projection is too aggressive of a change. There is no way they will be #12 as your high end projection. Until we all see the report from Baseball America, which seems to be the most valid source, I will stick with my theory and opinion that a few additions will not change this horrible Sox farm system that drastically. Maybe low 20's or high teens.

Again I am not stating my theory without facts. I posted for you the AAA, AA and high A stats for both pitching and hitting, which still makes up the large majority of Sox prospects. They are pitiful and near the bottom in so many critical areas. 

Yes with Schulz and Montgomery along with potentially a few good new prospects they are getting better. Yet they not are major ready. Several of the new prospects added have done horrible thus far in their first appeances in minor league Sox uniforms. 

As you said, I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours. I also appreciate you spend a lot of time watching and posting for SoxTalk, the status of these Sox prospects and scores in all four leagues. I don't watch the games as closely like you, but I do check the box scores, standings and stats and I feel I am fairly familiar with our farm system.

The bottom line is you telling me the Sox farm system soon will absolutely be ranked 12-16 is your opinion, which you have the right to. The fact is, neither one of us has seen the newest rankings. If Baseball America changes them from 26 to 13, then I will admit I was wrong and you were right. If it's not as you predict, I would hope you would do the same back.

Teams care a lot less about statistics and W/L records than the respective performance of their top prospects...75-80% of the players in a system are basically irrelevant, except to the host affiliate that suffers in attendance.

[The Kids Can Play]

14 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Where are you expecting Baseball America to have them? You do realize that they’ve added like 8-10 guys to their top 30 via the draft and trades. That’s the difference. 

I understand they have added some 8-10 nice prospects via the draft and recent trades.

I still don't see where these new prospects will come in and erase or all the horrible prospects that currently play in the Sox farm system.

Pitching

Knights - 6.43 ERA - 20th of 20 teams

Barons - 5.64 ERA - 8th of 8 teams

Winston-Salem - 5.54 ERA - 11th of 12 teams

Hitting

Knights - Runs #20, OBP #20, SLG #19, OPS #20

Barons - Runs #7, OBP #8, SLG #7, OPS #8

As a life long Sox fan, I hope I am wrong and they have all this wonderful talent that will make our farm system relevant again. However there is so many bad players, I don't see how they can move to #12 as you suggest. 

I just need you to help me understand how that crap just gets flushed away and everything is hunky dory! There are a lot more than 8-10 bad prospects in AAA and AA.

I think a more realistic number would be high teens 17-19 from #26.

Even if the Sox are higher and maybe ranked #12-14, the problem still remains the horrible player development coaches that are still in all levels in the minors. You can add some great bats and arms, but the same inept coaches who allowed the Sox farm system to be ranked #29 in 2002 and #26 in 2023 are still in place. Several good prospects have been ruined by the Sox. As a result, before anyone gets all excited about the new #12 ranking, if that is indeed the case, keep in mind we are allowing horrible inept coaches to continue to produce underdeveloped talent. They screwed up Crochet and what makes you think they don't screw up Schultz?

Btw, the last time the Sox had a really high ranked farm system, how did that work out for that promised parade and the championship contention years? 

[The Kids Can Play]

14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Teams care a lot less about statistics and W/L records than the respective performance of their top prospects...75-80% of the players in a system are basically irrelevant, except to the host affiliate that suffers in attendance.

Not true at all. Btw, I have never talked about wins and losses ever as being relevant in the minors. I only discuss the stats which are relevant.

There are several garbage pitchers in Charlotte and Birmingham. Many of them have 5, 6 and 7 ERA's. There is a reason the Sox haven't been successful bringing up pitchers. Name me the last Sox pitcher they drafted and developed other than Rodon and Sale.

The reason the Dodgers always have one of the best farm systems, is because they are able to scout, draft and develop great pitchers, that they can bring up to the majors to be productive, or use for trades to grab great hitters. 

Stats absolutely matter. If a Sox pitcher consistently can't get runners out in AAA and the opposing teams keep scoring runs on that pitcher, then hell yes, stats matter and probably why many of those pitchers won't be in the majors any time soon.