Fire Rick Hahn

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

30 clubs.  Most run by smart people.  Many with even more financial resources.  It is tough to win.

If the Sox decided to zig when virtually everyone else was zagging... while it certainly wouldn't have been my strategy of choice, I would have accepted that. 

And it isn't like Hahn can come out and tell everyone what they were doing, it wouldn't be in their best interest to advertise they were bucking the trend.

So maybe they tried?  And it didn't work?  

 

I think their M.O. is they like to be very arrogant about how they don't go too hard in one trend where the art of what they are moving from may be "lost". But to me they end up getting the worst of both worlds. Don't get first mover advantage, move far enough to new things to not get the benefit of a hedge.

But I've also written this before, what you saw in 2015-19 to me was just complete capitulation that old school orgs lost. Massive overhauling in virtually every org to catch up. Hahn gets credit for not deciding to be a completely backwards org, but every org "modernized" in the last 5-8 years. He doesn't get extra credit.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

I think their M.O. is they like to be very arrogant about how they don't go too hard in one trend where the art of what they are moving from may be "lost". But to me they end up getting the worst of both worlds. Don't get first mover advantage, move far enough to new things to not get the benefit of a hedge.

But I've also written this before, what you saw in 2015-19 to me was just complete capitulation that old school orgs lost. Massive overhauling in virtually every org to catch up. Hahn gets credit for not deciding to be a completely backwards org, but every org "modernized" in the last 5-8 years. He doesn't get extra credit.

Shelley Duncan head of analytics.

Menechino implementing Hahn’s vision.

No clue on evaluating trade / free agent talent.

No clue on developing players.

No clue on defensive positioning.

This club is still near or at 30th in The MLB at “modernization”.

[reiks12]

34 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Shelley Duncan head of analytics.

Menechino implementing Hahn’s vision.

No clue on evaluating trade / free agent talent.

No clue on developing players.

No clue on defensive positioning.

This club is still near or at 30th in The MLB at “modernization”.

I would like to see who the other 4 analytical minds on the Sox are, because im starting to believe they are probably Duncan's buddies or favors to Sox employees who have kids who just graduated college

[caulfield12]

11 hours ago, reiks12 said:

I would like to see who the other 4 analytical minds on the Sox are, because im starting to believe they are probably Duncan's buddies or favors to Sox employees who have kids who just graduated college

Senior Director of Baseball Operations Dan Fabian
Director of Baseball Analytics Matt Koenig
Director of Baseball Operations Daniel Zien

[Bossanoveralls]

16 hours ago, reiks12 said:

I would like to see who the other 4 analytical minds on the Sox are, because im starting to believe they are probably Duncan's buddies or favors to Sox employees who have kids who just graduated college

One of these clowns does not belong in this lineup.

[PolishPrince34]

[The Kids Can Play]

On 7/30/2022 at 1:22 PM, kitekrazy said:

 I'm gonna do a different take.   A GM relies on scouts.  Then there is your staff in the instructional leagues,  We see the same patterns in the organization.  There are probably people we never heard of that are probably under JRs loyalty program.   There are no outsiders from consistent winning organizations.  Guys like Boston are part of the mired in mediocrity organization.

 There is no pressure on anyone in this organization.  Stone reflected that in some words about the farm system.

 I know drafting in baseball is a crapshoot but even during the KW era there are some major busts.     

There are plenty of organizations that trade that talented player for prospects and then start the cycle over again and might have a few winning seasons out of each decade.  Those big market teams seem to produce good homegrown talent and spend the money.

 When you have a not so good system that is not good at evaluating talent the "get a haul for x player" seems closer to fantasy then reality.  There's enough teams like that. At some point money has to be spent but what good is that if the scouting isn't there.   So far the Sox spend bad money and make bad trades.   

 It will be interesting to see how the Mets fare in Oct.

 With overpriced pitching the Giants got value out of Rodon so far.  Hindsight for the Sox is not good on that one.

You are absolutely right it starts with scouting, player evaluations and player development. Rick Hahn has screwed this part of the organization up big time.

Tampa Bay has been one of the best in this respect for years. Since they don't have the money to spend and they play in a small market and small attendance park, they clearly understand the value of drafting and developing. You are right, drafting is tough, but it doesn't have to be a crapshoot. The good teams like Tampa seem to have an understanding of the type of player they need in their system. They seem to understand basic fundamental baseball in which TB knows the type of player they want that have good speed, fielding and plate presence. They obviously also understand this formula with pitchers. Once these drafted players enter Tampa's farm system, they seem to have the right coaches throughout their entire minor league system to develop these players into productive ML players to bring up over the future years to their big league team. Once these TB players become stars and before they reach free agency, they usually trade them away for more prospects to continue strengthening their farm system. 

As we know TB plays in probably the toughest division in baseball year in and year out. Since 2008, TB Win-Loss record is 1270-1062 for a .554%. That is 208 games over 500! Yet the Rays have done this success with being one of the lowest payrolls yearly since 2008. Imagine Tampa record if they play in the AL central. 

Year W L Payroll Rank 2022 69 56 24 2021 100 62 26 2020 60 40 28 2019 96 66 30 2018 90 72 28 2017 80 82 29 2016 68 94 28 2015 80 82 28 2014 77 85 28 2013 92 71 28 2012 90 72 25 2011 91 71 29 2010 96 66 21 2009 84 78 25 2008 97 65 29   1270 1062

This is why we need to get someone from the Tampa Bay Front Office to create this successful formula in Chicago. I realize this may not happen until Jerry dies and the team is sold. However Jerry allowed this to happen with his Bulls team. He allowed his son Michael to run the Bulls and his son went out and found an outside executive who had great success building another basketball winning organization. Keep in mind the Dodgers stole Andrew Friedman in 2015 to be their president of baseball ops and have full control. They knew Friedman could draft and develop players. However now the Dodgers gave him unlimited money to spend to hire all the top free agents. However the key point here is Freidman didn't forget how to build the farm system. The Dodgers are not only the winningest team in baseball with the highest payroll, but they have the #2 ranked farm system.

There is no reason Jerry can't let his son Michael take over the Sox and let him go outside and find the right man to clean house from top to bottom. Obviously as we all know, the only thing stopping this is Jerry with his stubborn, arrogant and ignorant personality. As I have stated before, it would only be in Jerry's best interest to do this. Since Jerry plans on selling the team when he dies, it's an even more logical reason to allow his family to sell the Sox after his death for a much higher valued amount. This is usually referred to as following "Best Practices" in all successful companies or organizations"! 

 

[Lip Man 1]

31 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You are absolutely right it starts with scouting, player evaluations and player development. Rick Hahn has screwed this part of the organization up big time.

Tampa Bay has been one of the best in this respect for years. Since they don't have the money to spend and they play in a small market and small attendance park, they clearly understand the value of drafting and developing. You are right, drafting is tough, but it doesn't have to be a crapshoot. The good teams like Tampa seem to have an understanding of the type of player they need in their system. They seem to understand basic fundamental baseball in which TB knows the type of player they want that have good speed, fielding and plate presence. They obviously also understand this formula with pitchers. Once these drafted players enter Tampa's farm system, they seem to have the right coaches throughout their entire minor league system to develop these players into productive ML players to bring up over the future years to their big league team. Once these TB players become stars and before they reach free agency, they usually trade them away for more prospects to continue strengthening their farm system. 

As we know TB plays in probably the toughest division in baseball year in and year out. Since 2008, TB Win-Loss record is 1270-1062 for a .554%. That is 208 games over 500! Yet the Rays have done this success with being one of the lowest payrolls yearly since 2008. Imagine Tampa record if they play in the AL central. 

Year W L Payroll Rank 2022 69 56 24 2021 100 62 26 2020 60 40 28 2019 96 66 30 2018 90 72 28 2017 80 82 29 2016 68 94 28 2015 80 82 28 2014 77 85 28 2013 92 71 28 2012 90 72 25 2011 91 71 29 2010 96 66 21 2009 84 78 25 2008 97 65 29   1270 1062

This is why we need to get someone from the Tampa Bay Front Office to create this successful formula in Chicago. I realize this may not happen until Jerry dies and the team is sold. However Jerry allowed this to happen with his Bulls team. He allowed his son Michael to run the Bulls and his son went out and found an outside executive who had great success building another basketball winning organization. Keep in mind the Dodgers stole Andrew Friedman in 2015 to be their president of baseball ops and have full control. They knew Friedman could draft and develop players. However now the Dodgers gave him unlimited money to spend to hire all the top free agents. However the key point here is Freidman didn't forget how to build the farm system. The Dodgers are not only the winningest team in baseball with the highest payroll, but they have the #2 ranked farm system.

There is no reason Jerry can't let his son Michael take over the Sox and let him go outside and find the right man to clean house from top to bottom. Obviously as we all know, the only thing stopping this is Jerry with his stubborn, arrogant and ignorant personality. As I have stated before, it would only be in Jerry's best interest to do this. Since Jerry plans on selling the team when he dies, it's an even more logical reason to allow his family to sell the Sox after his death for a much higher valued amount. This is usually referred to as following "Best Practices" in all successful companies or organizations"! 

 

Michael is running the Bulls, he's not going to take over two franchises.

[caulfield12]

59 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You are absolutely right it starts with scouting, player evaluations and player development. Rick Hahn has screwed this part of the organization up big time.

Tampa Bay has been one of the best in this respect for years. Since they don't have the money to spend and they play in a small market and small attendance park, they clearly understand the value of drafting and developing. You are right, drafting is tough, but it doesn't have to be a crapshoot. The good teams like Tampa seem to have an understanding of the type of player they need in their system. They seem to understand basic fundamental baseball in which TB knows the type of player they want that have good speed, fielding and plate presence. They obviously also understand this formula with pitchers. Once these drafted players enter Tampa's farm system, they seem to have the right coaches throughout their entire minor league system to develop these players into productive ML players to bring up over the future years to their big league team. Once these TB players become stars and before they reach free agency, they usually trade them away for more prospects to continue strengthening their farm system. 

As we know TB plays in probably the toughest division in baseball year in and year out. Since 2008, TB Win-Loss record is 1270-1062 for a .554%. That is 208 games over 500! Yet the Rays have done this success with being one of the lowest payrolls yearly since 2008. Imagine Tampa record if they play in the AL central. 

Year W L Payroll Rank 2022 69 56 24 2021 100 62 26 2020 60 40 28 2019 96 66 30 2018 90 72 28 2017 80 82 29 2016 68 94 28 2015 80 82 28 2014 77 85 28 2013 92 71 28 2012 90 72 25 2011 91 71 29 2010 96 66 21 2009 84 78 25 2008 97 65 29   1270 1062

This is why we need to get someone from the Tampa Bay Front Office to create this successful formula in Chicago. I realize this may not happen until Jerry dies and the team is sold. However Jerry allowed this to happen with his Bulls team. He allowed his son Michael to run the Bulls and his son went out and found an outside executive who had great success building another basketball winning organization. Keep in mind the Dodgers stole Andrew Friedman in 2015 to be their president of baseball ops and have full control. They knew Friedman could draft and develop players. However now the Dodgers gave him unlimited money to spend to hire all the top free agents. However the key point here is Freidman didn't forget how to build the farm system. The Dodgers are not only the winningest team in baseball with the highest payroll, but they have the #2 ranked farm system.

There is no reason Jerry can't let his son Michael take over the Sox and let him go outside and find the right man to clean house from top to bottom. Obviously as we all know, the only thing stopping this is Jerry with his stubborn, arrogant and ignorant personality. As I have stated before, it would only be in Jerry's best interest to do this. Since Jerry plans on selling the team when he dies, it's an even more logical reason to allow his family to sell the Sox after his death for a much higher valued amount. This is usually referred to as following "Best Practices" in all successful companies or organizations"! 

 

Even the Rays just extended Glasnow two years into FA, and then there's the Wander Franco deal.

[Chick Mercedes]

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You are absolutely right it starts with scouting, player evaluations and player development. Rick Hahn has screwed this part of the organization up big time.

Tampa Bay has been one of the best in this respect for years. Since they don't have the money to spend and they play in a small market and small attendance park, they clearly understand the value of drafting and developing. You are right, drafting is tough, but it doesn't have to be a crapshoot. The good teams like Tampa seem to have an understanding of the type of player they need in their system. They seem to understand basic fundamental baseball in which TB knows the type of player they want that have good speed, fielding and plate presence. They obviously also understand this formula with pitchers. Once these drafted players enter Tampa's farm system, they seem to have the right coaches throughout their entire minor league system to develop these players into productive ML players to bring up over the future years to their big league team. Once these TB players become stars and before they reach free agency, they usually trade them away for more prospects to continue strengthening their farm system. 

As we know TB plays in probably the toughest division in baseball year in and year out. Since 2008, TB Win-Loss record is 1270-1062 for a .554%. That is 208 games over 500! Yet the Rays have done this success with being one of the lowest payrolls yearly since 2008. Imagine Tampa record if they play in the AL central. 

Year W L Payroll Rank 2022 69 56 24 2021 100 62 26 2020 60 40 28 2019 96 66 30 2018 90 72 28 2017 80 82 29 2016 68 94 28 2015 80 82 28 2014 77 85 28 2013 92 71 28 2012 90 72 25 2011 91 71 29 2010 96 66 21 2009 84 78 25 2008 97 65 29   1270 1062

This is why we need to get someone from the Tampa Bay Front Office to create this successful formula in Chicago. I realize this may not happen until Jerry dies and the team is sold. However Jerry allowed this to happen with his Bulls team. He allowed his son Michael to run the Bulls and his son went out and found an outside executive who had great success building another basketball winning organization. Keep in mind the Dodgers stole Andrew Friedman in 2015 to be their president of baseball ops and have full control. They knew Friedman could draft and develop players. However now the Dodgers gave him unlimited money to spend to hire all the top free agents. However the key point here is Freidman didn't forget how to build the farm system. The Dodgers are not only the winningest team in baseball with the highest payroll, but they have the #2 ranked farm system.

There is no reason Jerry can't let his son Michael take over the Sox and let him go outside and find the right man to clean house from top to bottom. Obviously as we all know, the only thing stopping this is Jerry with his stubborn, arrogant and ignorant personality. As I have stated before, it would only be in Jerry's best interest to do this. Since Jerry plans on selling the team when he dies, it's an even more logical reason to allow his family to sell the Sox after his death for a much higher valued amount. This is usually referred to as following "Best Practices" in all successful companies or organizations"! 

 

I’ve been beating this drum for awhile. 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Michael is running the Bulls, he's not going to take over two franchises.

He absolutely could run both and many other owners do. He doesn't have to run it much. He just needs to find a stud like the Dodgers did with Andrew Friedman, and get out of his way and let him do his job.

Btw, there are several owners past and present in all four sports that owned or own more than one team.

Ted Leonis - owner of Washington Wizards, Capitals and Mystics

Jody Allen, sister of her decease brother Paul Allen - owner of Seattle Seahawks and Portland Trailblazers

Gayle Benson, wife of her decease husband Tom Benson - owner of New Orleans Saints and Pelicans

 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Even the Rays just extended Glasnow two years into FA, and then there's the Wander Franco deal.

There is the occasional contract they do sign over the years to extend to a good player. However there is a reason the Rays are near the bottom every year for team payroll. 

The good new if we got a stud from the Rays or some other similar team, he could be like Freidman at LAD and not have to deal with limited money to spend. The reason we want one these executives from TB is there knowledge and consistency in building great teams thru the draft and farm system without spending money. The assumption is give them serious money to spend which the  Sox have, and a sharp TB executive for example, could do serious winning things here because they would also build a quality farm system. 

[The Kids Can Play]

12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Senior Director of Baseball Operations Dan Fabian
Director of Baseball Analytics Matt Koenig
Director of Baseball Operations Daniel Zien

They need to be fired as well and the entire organization wiped clean.

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

He absolutely could run both and many other owners do. He doesn't have to run it much. He just needs to find a stud like the Dodgers did with Andrew Friedman, and get out of his way and let him do his job.

Btw, there are several owners past and present in all four sports that owned or own more than one team.

Ted Leonis - owner of Washington Wizards, Capitals and Mystics

Jody Allen, sister of her decease brother Paul Allen - owner of Seattle Seahawks and Portland Trailblazers

Gayle Benson, wife of her decease husband Tom Benson - owner of New Orleans Saints and Pelicans

 

You forgot the Tigers/Red Wings owner Mike Iilitch

[ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack]

Matt Araiza (Bills) gets cut and Daryl Boston still has a job.  

[fathom]

So including this past offseason and the deadline, Hahn has added about 40 million on the books for next year with the following players:

Graveman, Kelly, Pollock, Diekman, Leury

It’s hard to do a worse job than he did at the 21 trade deadline, but he found a way to do it.  Fire this clown!

[Harold's Leg Lift]

He ignored defense, he ignored baserunning, he ignored flexibility, he ignored depth and he ignored leadership.  He put togther a fantasy baseball team that looks good on a spreadsheet. 10 years and he still hasn't figured out that baseball is not played on a spreadsheet.  

[fathom]

15 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He ignored defense, he ignored baserunning, he ignored flexibility, he ignored depth and he ignored leadership.  He put togther a fantasy baseball team that looks good on a spreadsheet. 10 years and he still hasn't figured out that baseball is not played on a spreadsheet.  

It’s still so crazy to me that he didn’t address their inability to hit RHP.  It was a big focus during the series against the Astros….and then we get Leury, Harrison and Pollock.

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said:

Matt Araiza (Bills) gets cut and Daryl Boston still has a job.  

Vince Coleman and Dwight Gooden support this message.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He ignored defense, he ignored baserunning, he ignored flexibility, he ignored depth and he ignored leadership.  He put togther a fantasy baseball team that looks good on a spreadsheet. 10 years and he still hasn't figured out that baseball is not played on a spreadsheet.  

Where does Kelenic end up getting traded in proverbial “change of scenery” move?

Seems he lost all that extension money to Julio Rodriguez and likely Luis Castillo.

[The Kids Can Play]

15 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

You forgot the Tigers/Red Wings owner Mike Iilitch

Yep and over the history of owning teams, it's a long list of previous owners who owned multiple teams.

[GreenSox]

10 hours ago, fathom said:

It’s still so crazy to me that he didn’t address their inability to hit RHP.  It was a big focus during the series against the Astros….and then we get Leury, Harrison and Pollock.

Those 3 can't hit either hand pitching.  And of the 3, only Pollock is a candidate for the  "who could have known" excuse  (and it's not that surprising anyway, given his age).

[Balta1701]

 

[South Side Hit Men]

16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

Anyone have any pictures of the LIV /  Saudi / Trump Golf League Reinsdorf was pimping at the stadium last night for ca$h, cause Jerry needs ca$h?

First article comment:

Quote

At least they also did an in stadium promotion for the Saudi golf league last night. Good vibes all around!

 

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Yep and over the history of owning teams, it's a long list of previous owners who owned multiple teams.

Except JR has consistently told his family to sell the Sox and keep the Bulls. Michael will not be running the franchise now or ever in my opinion.