Fire Rick Hahn

[fathom]

So Hahn didn’t acquire pitching depth at the deadline because of Davis Martin….and it took one bad start by him for them to lose faith.  I ask again, how can someone be this bad at their job?

[caulfield12]

11 hours ago, fathom said:

So Hahn didn’t acquire pitching depth at the deadline because of Davis Martin….and it took one bad start by him for them to lose faith.  I ask again, how can someone be this bad at their job?

Wasn't he the 30th ranked prospect at the beginning of the year?

 

We spent page after page after page worrying about Adolfo, and he was irrelevant,especially compared to Luis Gonzalez.  Otoh, the one who made the most impact was Burger and Martin.  Even Lambert would probably be ranked third.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by caulfield12

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Wasn't he the 30th ranked prospect at the beginning of the year?

 

We spent page after page after page worrying about Adolfo, and he was irrelevant, compared to Luis Gonzalez.  Otoh, the one who made the most impact was Burger and Martin.  Even Lambert would probably be ranked third.

 

 

He had a velo increase and found better command. He always missed bats. Who cares what his ranking was

[bmags]

11 hours ago, fathom said:

So Hahn didn’t acquire pitching depth at the deadline because of Davis Martin….and it took one bad start by him for them to lose faith.  I ask again, how can someone be this bad at their job?

It really is astonishing

[caulfield12]

18 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Mattered when the Sox also broadcast select games on independent stations through 2019.

All local television broadcasts since 2019  occur on Jerry Reinsdorf majority (50%) owned NBCSC (Wirtz and NBC Universal own the two remaining 25% shares).

what about Ozzie doing the 10-12 or whatever Spanish languge broadcasts?

wonder what the Q scores are for those, haha?   can you get access to that information, in terms of how many Hispanic listeners the Sox actually have?   what about radio affiliates in Cuba?  they should control/dominate that entire market, but you never ever hear anything about it.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 9/2/2022 at 6:01 PM, fathom said:

So Hahn didn’t acquire pitching depth at the deadline because of Davis Martin….and it took one bad start by him for them to lose faith.  I ask again, how can someone be this bad at their job?

Too bad the Cubs were asking for an arm and a leg for Happ. He's been doing great since the trade deadline.

They probably wouldn't budge off of wanting Colas.

Odd now that when Colas might be able to help the Sox we get Payton and Haseley instead. Guess they don't want to bench Sheets who's been one of their best hitters for 2 months but Colas could be in CF or LF also especially since Pollock is so much better against LHP.

Not enough spots too rotate between 1st base, RF,LF, CF, DH and utility guy between Eloy, Vaughn, Sheets, Abreu, Pollock, Colas, Leury and Robert when he's capable of hitting again. But the bench would appear to be much more powerful every day especially in pinch hitting and extra innings personnel if you have Moncada, Pollock, Colas or Sheets not starting.

No one would miss Haseley, Payton, and Engel. Unfortunately Leury seems to be a necessary piece. But he can be used a lot less.

[South Side Hit Men]

Co-sign.

 

 

[Lip Man 1]

15 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Co-sign.

 

 

Everyone knows I am not a Rick Hahn apologist but like with Frank Thomas I can't blame the Sox in this case. The injury risk was to great.

If someone is to blame first and foremost it's JR and his self-imposed payroll limitations which probably prevented Hahn from even thinking about extending the QO.

Where Hahn deserves blame, in my opinion, is the fact that the best he could do to try to replace him was Vince Velasquez. A guy who in five years or so in the big leagues has never been anything but mediocre at best. There were other possibilities out there.

[Tony]

48 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Everyone knows I am not a Rick Hahn apologist but like with Frank Thomas I can't blame the Sox in this case. The injury risk was to great.

If someone is to blame first and foremost it's JR and his self-imposed payroll limitations which probably prevented Hahn from even thinking about extending the QO.

Where Hahn deserves blame, in my opinion, is the fact that the best he could do to try to replace him was Vince Velasquez. A guy who in five years or so in the big leagues has never been anything but mediocre at best. There were other possibilities out there.

The issue I have with this is two fold:

1. The Sox should have had better medicals/info that anyone on Rodon. Clearly, the guy was healthy in 2021 and is showing he's more than healthy in 2022. 

2. When you use the word "risk" in this case, I'd buy it more if Rodon got a contract for 3,4,5 years. He did not. At worst, he got a 2 year deal, but with his performance this season, it looks like he'll be hitting the FA market again this offseason. 

What's frustrating is given how this season has gone, if Rodon put up these numbers with the Sox, they're still a frustrating team but they're sitting in 1st place right now. 

[Tnetennba]

15 minutes ago, Tony said:

The issue I have with this is two fold:

1. The Sox should have had better medicals/info that anyone on Rodon. Clearly, the guy was healthy in 2021 and is showing he's more than healthy in 2022. 

2. When you use the word "risk" in this case, I'd buy it more if Rodon got a contract for 3,4,5 years. He did not. At worst, he got a 2 year deal, but with his performance this season, it looks like he'll be hitting the FA market again this offseason. 

What's frustrating is given how this season has gone, if Rodon put up these numbers with the Sox, they're still a frustrating team but they're sitting in 1st place right now. 

Letting Rodon walk for absolutely nothing is still the worst move of the off-season.  It was such a minimal commitment to keep him around for another year+ and they completely fucked that up.  Icing on the clusterfuck of an off-season. 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Everyone knows I am not a Rick Hahn apologist but like with Frank Thomas I can't blame the Sox in this case. The injury risk was to great.

If someone is to blame first and foremost it's JR and his self-imposed payroll limitations which probably prevented Hahn from even thinking about extending the QO.

Where Hahn deserves blame, in my opinion, is the fact that the best he could do to try to replace him was Vince Velasquez. A guy who in five years or so in the big leagues has never been anything but mediocre at best. There were other possibilities out there.

Most here were advocating for a QO. If Hahn used that money to properly fill the perma-holes at RF and 2B, people would have understood and agreed if he signed quality starters (not mid 30s Josh Harrison).

He instead used the money to pick up Kimbrel's option, with the intentions of flipping to a max of two teams possibly willing to take on that contract (Atlanta and Los Angeles), and as a result had little to no leverage and ended up getting an even worse contract in return.

Hahn signed Kelly for a similar amount who had it written in his contract he couldn't pitch in consecutive games for half of the first season (and perhaps more restrictions which have not been reported). Also rushed to extend Lynn for whatever reason mid-July who had issues requiring a knee brace and then surgery shortly thereafter.

Previously, he made Grandal the highest paid White Sox despite the fact he was in his 30s and carried a very heavy workload the previous few seasons. Catchers in the 30s who continue their production are few and far between in baseball.

Also, his payroll increased significantly year over year. Instead of acquiring a quality RF and 2B, he dumped it in the bullpen and mid 30s hitters on their last ML contract.

Edited September 5, 2022 by South Side Hit Men

[caulfield12]

On 9/3/2022 at 7:17 AM, bmags said:

He had a velo increase and found better command. He always missed bats. Who cares what his ranking was

Obviously, the Guardians don't.  Whereas young Sox players other than Vaughn have hardly managed to hit their way out of a paper bag.

Particularly Sosa.

[caulfield12]

Miami Marlins: Looking Back at the Alex Vesia Trade (marlinmaniac.com)

Here's a great example, Rick Hahn.  The Dodgers just go out and scour the world.

We don't have a prayer of replacing Crochet and Bummer.   Heck, even KW was great at digging these guys up from the dead, the likes of Jenks, Sergio Santos, Marte, Thornton, Crain, etc.

[Chicago White Sox]

If Cashman were to get fired…

 

[soxfan49]

10 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Everyone knows I am not a Rick Hahn apologist but like with Frank Thomas I can't blame the Sox in this case. The injury risk was to great.

If someone is to blame first and foremost it's JR and his self-imposed payroll limitations which probably prevented Hahn from even thinking about extending the QO.

Where Hahn deserves blame, in my opinion, is the fact that the best he could do to try to replace him was Vince Velasquez. A guy who in five years or so in the big leagues has never been anything but mediocre at best. There were other possibilities out there.

They saved that money and used it on Harrison, Velasquez, Garcia and Kelly ?

[Bossanoveralls]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If Cashman were to get fired…

 

This gives me a bulb.

What if Jerry fired Hahn and Kdub.

Hired Cashman.

Cashman brings the Judge along with him to plug the RF hole.

How would we like them apples, huh?

Oh, baby!

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, Bossanoveralls said:

This gives me a bulb.

What if Jerry fired Hahn and Kdub.

Hired Cashman.

Cashman brings the Judge along with him to plug the RF hole.

How would we like them apples, huh?

Oh, baby!

I am not sure cashman is a good GM anymore. I think a lot of his best talent left for the marlins.

[bmags]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Obviously, the Guardians don't.  Whereas young Sox players other than Vaughn have hardly managed to hit their way out of a paper bag.

Particularly Sosa.

He was here for a week. Great post though.

[GreenSox]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Miami Marlins: Looking Back at the Alex Vesia Trade (marlinmaniac.com)

Here's a great example, Rick Hahn.  The Dodgers just go out and scour the world.

We don't have a prayer of replacing Crochet and Bummer.   Heck, even KW was great at digging these guys up from the dead, the likes of Jenks, Sergio Santos, Marte, Thornton, Crain, etc.

This gets to what I think makes Hahn such a poor GM.  It's one thing to have neither talent evaluation nor analytics skills (and he has neither) but he didn't surround himself with people who could compensate for his lack of skills in those areas.  This shows either a lack of self-awareness, effort, or the old standby of bad managers in any field to not hire people who could possibly outshine you (good managers do the opposite).  Kudos for the Q trade, the Eaton deals, but, otherwise, the best moves that the Sox get out of Hahn are the obvious. 

[Lip Man 1]

57 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

This gets to what I think makes Hahn such a poor GM.  It's one thing to have neither talent evaluation nor analytics skills (and he has neither) but he didn't surround himself with people who could compensate for his lack of skills in those areas.  This shows either a lack of self-awareness, effort, or the old standby of bad managers in any field to not hire people who could possibly outshine you (good managers do the opposite).  Kudos for the Q trade, the Eaton deals, but, otherwise, the best moves that the Sox get out of Hahn are the obvious. 

Very true but you also have to consider (and  no one really knows for sure) how much real authority Hahn has. Remember KW famous quote (paraphrasing) 'When JR wants to know something he calls me...'

For all we know, and I'm certainly not defending him, with this dysfunctional organization the folks you say should have been hired/fired he may not have been allowed to do so. (Small possibility I grant you but it is there.)

Personally the Sox need a major housecleaning on the baseball side because they have lost credibility with much of the fan base. They need to do what then owner John Allyn did in September 1970.

[Bossanoveralls]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

I am not sure cashman is a good GM anymore. I think a lot of his best talent left for the marlins.

Kinda puts the dimmer on the old bulb then, doesn't it?

I got Hahn figured for not a good GM anymore, too.

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Bossanoveralls said:

Kinda puts the dimmer on the old bulb then, doesn't it?

I got Hahn figured for not a good GM anymore, too.

Well Hahn is awful. Cashman has just a complicated case. His trades are usually quite strong, and they usually keep the right prospects. Their latam is good, but their drafting is so so.

So that’s the stuff that’s stripped, albeit not entirely, from the unlimited budget.

But he may very well be good at turning around the Sox roster quickly. His handling of the Yankees this offseason was creative.

Hahn is just a rich boy.

[Bossanoveralls]

16 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well Hahn is awful. Cashman has just a complicated case. His trades are usually quite strong, and they usually keep the right prospects. Their latam is good, but their drafting is so so.

So that’s the stuff that’s stripped, albeit not entirely, from the unlimited budget.

But he may very well be good at turning around the Sox roster quickly. His handling of the Yankees this offseason was creative.

Hahn is just a rich boy.

Cashman would be an upgrade, no?

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Bossanoveralls said:

Cashman would be an upgrade, no?

Absolutely.

[oldsox]

Judging from that picture of Cashman, I think he likes the food in NYC.