Fire Rick Hahn

[Paulie4Pres]

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

That's your belief. Should you leave it at home or share it here? If your belief is shared by millions of other people does it make it less valid? 

 

What? Lol.

Plenty of families have two parents who aren't married. How is that a belief?

Edited September 25, 2022 by Paulie4Pres

[Balta1701]

Does everyone remember how last year there was the occasional rumor that the Bears wouldn’t fire their GM after a debacle of a season because they liked him or how he was helping with the new stadium? Let alone keeping Nagy when the fans were chanting weekly to fire him?

Could you imagine the response of at the end of the year the owner said Im in charge and everyone stays? 

The McCaskey family is a better ownership group than this.

[GreenSox]

Who would JR turn to for advice as to filling KW's position, assuming KW was gone?

[Balta1701]

19 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Who would JR turn to for advice as to filling KW's position, assuming KW was gone?

Tony LaRussa and Bob Nightengale

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

The McCaskey family is a better ownership group than this.

The McCaskey Family is merely incompetent.

Jerry Reinsdorf and Rocky Wirtz are incompetent douchebags.

[Texsox]

13 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

What? Lol.

Plenty of families have two parents who aren't married. How is that a belief?

If you *believe* two parents are better, or marriage before children, that's a belief. If you believe parents don't have to be married that's not a belief? 

I believe that non religious people can have beliefs. They may believe that murder is bad or you shouldn't steal. 

be·lieve

/bəˈlēv/

verb

1.

accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.

"the superintendent believed Lancaster's story"

Similar:

be convinced by

trust

have confidence in

take as gospel

So when a religious and an agnostic person are sharing their beliefs when should the religious person shut up and just allow the angnostic person to speak? That's my main point. You are trying to respect diversity by just allowing similarity and silencing the actual diversity you seem to be trying to protect.  

I actually agree with your opinion on wedlock and kids. The difference is I don't mind sharing the opposite belief. The respectful exchange of beliefs is a positive way to bridge differences through respecting those differences not marginalization and suppression. 

[Snopek]

11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Tony LaRussa and Bob Nightengale

We need a “sad laughing” reaction button

[Chicago White Sox]

Carlos Rodon is currently 1st in fWAR amongst all pitchers.  Rick Hahn passed on offering him a QO, which would have secured him for the 2023 season at $18.5M or resulted in the addition of a compensation pick.  Instead, this was his actual plan:

• Signed Kendall Graveman to 3/$24M - 0.6 fWAR
• Signed Joe Kelly to 2/$17M - 0.4 fWAR
• Signed Leury Garcia to 3/$16.5M - (1.1) fWAR
• Signed Josh Harrison to 1/$5.5M - 1.3 fWAR
• Signed Vince Velasquez to 1/$3M - 0.2 fWAR
• Acquired AJ Pollock ($11.5M salary) - 0.7 fWAR
• Acquired Reese McGuire ($0.4 salary) - 0.4 fWAR

So for a total of ~$42M in spend for the 2023 season, Rick Hahn was able to acquire 2.5 fWAR.  That’s $16.8M per win and in areas that usually provide the least marginal value.  Things look far worse when you consider Rodon would have only cost $3.2M per win and would have required only 44% of those funds.

Also, those ROI figures don’t even account for the following:

• The $36M in commitments beyond the 2023 season to three guys who combined for negative fWAR this year (Graveman, Kelly, & Garcia)
• The $13M we’re on the hook for now for a 35 year old OF who has a poor track record of health and who no longer appears to be able to hit RHP
• The fact Joe Kelly was going to be severely limited for the first two months of the season and still gave him one of the biggest reliever contracts in FA
• The “pitching depth” that Hahn prioritized coming out of the lockout have a +6 ERA (Kelly) & +5 ERA (VV)

TLDR - Rick Hahn is really fucking bad at his job and needs to be fired ASAP.

[South Side Hit Men]

56 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Carlos Rodon is currently 1st in fWAR amongst all pitchers.  Rick Hahn passed on offering him a QO, which would have secured him for the 2023 season at $18.5M or resulted in the addition of a compensation pick.  Instead, this was his actual plan:

• Signed Kendall Graveman to 3/$24M - 0.6 fWAR
• Signed Joe Kelly to 2/$17M - 0.4 fWAR
• Signed Leury Garcia to 3/$16.5M - (1.1) fWAR
• Signed Josh Harrison to 1/$5.5M - 1.3 fWAR
• Signed Vince Velasquez to 1/$3M - 0.2 fWAR
• Acquired AJ Pollock ($11.5M salary) - 0.7 fWAR
• Acquired Reese McGuire ($0.4 salary) - 0.4 fWAR

So for a total of ~$42M in spend for the 2023 season, Rick Hahn was able to acquire 2.5 fWAR.  That’s $16.8M per win and in areas that usually provide the least marginal value.  Things look far worse when you consider Rodon would have only cost $3.2M per win and would have required only 44% of those funds.

Also, those ROI figures don’t even account for the following:

• The $36M in commitments beyond the 2023 season to three guys who combined for negative fWAR this year (Graveman, Kelly, & Garcia)
• The $13M we’re on the hook for now for a 35 year old OF who has a poor track record of health and who no longer appears to be able to hit RHP
• The fact Joe Kelly was going to be severely limited for the first two months of the season and still gave him one of the biggest reliever contracts in FA
• The “pitching depth” that Hahn prioritized coming out of the lockout have a +6 ERA (Kelly) & +5 ERA (VV)

TLDR - Rick Hahn is really fucking bad at his job and needs to be fired ASAP.

I reviewed Hahn's past three years in the GT yesterday, and it's even worse cumulatively than this one year sample. This is what I suspected would happen in 2020 after the Grandal and Keuchel signings, exacerbated further by Hahn doubling down on old and expensive the past two years.

1. Hahn spent $205.8M for 12.8 net bWAR across the three years for newly acquired players.
2. Hahn has $109.6M contract remaining over the next two years (9 total player seasons) for these players, most of whom are in their mid 30s, on their last major contract, and expected to be meh.
3. Hahn's incompetence not only destroyed any chance at legitimately competing over the past three seasons, but has also handcuffed their remaining competitive window with this core. 

Still shocked there are STILL people posting today Hahn should be given 2-3 more years as if he has little to no responsibility for the previous decade.

Remaining Contracts: $109.6M

• L. Hendriks $29.3M 2023 & 2024
• Y. Grandal $18.3M 2023
• L. Lynn $19.5M 2023
• K. Graveman $16.0M 2023 & 2024
• AJ Pollock $13.0M 2023 ($1.0M more possible)
• J. Kelly $9.0M 2023
• J. Diekman $4.5M 2023

Edited September 26, 2022 by South Side Hit Men

[Paulie4Pres]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

If you *believe* two parents are better, or marriage before children, that's a belief. If you believe parents don't have to be married that's not a belief? 

I believe that non religious people can have beliefs. They may believe that murder is bad or you shouldn't steal. 

be·lieve

/bəˈlēv/

verb

1.

accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.

"the superintendent believed Lancaster's story"

Similar:

be convinced by

trust

have confidence in

take as gospel

So when a religious and an agnostic person are sharing their beliefs when should the religious person shut up and just allow the angnostic person to speak? That's my main point. You are trying to respect diversity by just allowing similarity and silencing the actual diversity you seem to be trying to protect.  

I actually agree with your opinion on wedlock and kids. The difference is I don't mind sharing the opposite belief. The respectful exchange of beliefs is a positive way to bridge differences through respecting those differences not marginalization and suppression. 

First off, someone is a parent when they produce offspring. It has absolutely nothing to do with marriage. Nothing in the definition of the word parent includes marriage. Nothing in the legal definition of parent, includes marriage. Two people can, and indeed are parents, when they have a child. So, no. That's not a "belief" at all... It's just a fact. Marriage is a religious and social construct that actually has absolutely nothing at all to do with being a parent.

Second, nobody was saying that. There was no "agnostic" person sharing their beliefs, while silencing the "religious person". Why do Evangelicals in this country feel the need to constantly push their beliefs on others (Dayton Moore is a perfect example)? And why do they have this persecution complex when someone tells them it's not appropriate?

Only one side was spouting off about their religious beliefs and forcing them onto others within the workplace with that anti-porn nonsense. 

Judging people who have a child out of wedlock, when the only difference between them and a married couple with a child is a stupid piece of paper, is holier than thou bullshit that has no place in this century. Religious beliefs should be kept out of the workplace(and government, but we're not going to get into that). That's the entire point here. 

Plus, Dayton Moore is a fucking hypocrite, who defended a guy who molested his six year old niece, and never showed remorse or atoned for it. This, while claiming that porn is basically at the root of evil(lol). 

Dayton Moore’s comments on Luke Heimlich draw backlash - Royals Review

Seems to me his religion is just another way for him to look down on others and claim moral superiority. But we're way off topic now.

[chw42]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Carlos Rodon is currently 1st in fWAR amongst all pitchers.  Rick Hahn passed on offering him a QO, which would have secured him for the 2023 season at $18.5M or resulted in the addition of a compensation pick.  Instead, this was his actual plan:

• Signed Kendall Graveman to 3/$24M - 0.6 fWAR
• Signed Joe Kelly to 2/$17M - 0.4 fWAR
• Signed Leury Garcia to 3/$16.5M - (1.1) fWAR
• Signed Josh Harrison to 1/$5.5M - 1.3 fWAR
• Signed Vince Velasquez to 1/$3M - 0.2 fWAR
• Acquired AJ Pollock ($11.5M salary) - 0.7 fWAR
• Acquired Reese McGuire ($0.4 salary) - 0.4 fWAR

So for a total of ~$42M in spend for the 2023 season, Rick Hahn was able to acquire 2.5 fWAR.  That’s $16.8M per win and in areas that usually provide the least marginal value.  Things look far worse when you consider Rodon would have only cost $3.2M per win and would have required only 44% of those funds.

Also, those ROI figures don’t even account for the following:

• The $36M in commitments beyond the 2023 season to three guys who combined for negative fWAR this year (Graveman, Kelly, & Garcia)
• The $13M we’re on the hook for now for a 35 year old OF who has a poor track record of health and who no longer appears to be able to hit RHP
• The fact Joe Kelly was going to be severely limited for the first two months of the season and still gave him one of the biggest reliever contracts in FA
• The “pitching depth” that Hahn prioritized coming out of the lockout have a +6 ERA (Kelly) & +5 ERA (VV)

TLDR - Rick Hahn is really fucking bad at his job and needs to be fired ASAP.

It probably looks worse in bWAR cause Joe Kelly would be a huge negative WAR value with his 6+ ERA. 0.4 fWAR isn't really representative of his actual results this year. 

Edit: Kelly is worth -0.6 bWAR and Graveman is worth 0.7 bWAR. Those 2 combined got paid $16.5 million this year and produced an awesome 0.1 bWAR. We still owe them a combined $24.5 million for the rest of their contracts too....amazing. If it wasn't for Lynn getting hurt and signing Cueto, this would probably be one of the worst off-seasons in White Sox history. Imagine just lighting $40 million on fire. That's basically what Hahn did. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by chw42

[Paulie4Pres]

Rick Hahn absolutely fucking sucks. The Rodon move alone should get his ass fired. White Sox qualify Rodon and they make the playoffs this season. I'm guessing that wasn't all his decision, though. You know that cheap mother fucker Reinsdorf probably didn't want to pay him.

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Rick Hahn absolutely fucking sucks. The Rodon move alone should get his ass fired. White Sox qualify Rodon and they make the playoffs this season. I'm guessing that wasn't all his decision, though. You know that cheap mother fucker Reinsdorf probably didn't want to pay him.

Our front office is unique in that JR, Kenny, and RH work on these things together in large part.  This front office won't be fixed until new ownership cleans house.  I believe that Kenny is the player evaluator guy and RH is the contract guy.  Since JR is the money guy, they all get into the act.  It's very hard for JR to blame RH when he was part of the problem.

[Paulie4Pres]

Just now, poppysox said:

Our front office is unique in that JR, Kenny, and RH work on these things together in large part.  This front office won't be fixed until new ownership cleans house.  I believe that Kenny is the player evaluator guy and RH is the contract guy.  Since JR is the money guy, they all get into the act.  It's very hard for JR to blame RH when he was part of the problem.

Oh, I'm aware. The entire organization is broken.

[maloney.adam]

6 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Our front office is unique in that JR, Kenny, and RH work on these things together in large part.  This front office won't be fixed until new ownership cleans house.  I believe that Kenny is the player evaluator guy and RH is the contract guy.  Since JR is the money guy, they all get into the act.  It's very hard for JR to blame RH when he was part of the problem.

This makes sense with the tweet below. Sounds like maybe Hahn and KW want TLR out as manager but JR wants to keep him as manager so since JR wants to keeps him and he’s the owner he will overrule them. Messy situation if you ask me.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

It probably looks worse in bWAR cause Joe Kelly would be a huge negative WAR value with his 6+ ERA. 0.4 fWAR isn't really representative of his actual results this year. 

Edit: Kelly is worth -0.6 bWAR and Graveman is worth 0.7 bWAR. Those 2 combined got paid $16.5 million this year and produced an awesome 0.1 bWAR. We still owe them a combined $24.5 million for the rest of their contracts too....amazing. If it wasn't for Lynn getting hurt and signing Cueto, this would probably be one of the worst off-seasons in White Sox history. Imagine just lighting $40 million on fire. That's basically what Hahn did. 

Yup, if Lynn goes down two weeks later who knows if Cueto is still available and how much worse this season would be.

[Frank the Tank 35]

22 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

This makes sense with the tweet below. Sounds like maybe Hahn and KW want TLR out as manager but JR wants to keep him as manager so since JR wants to keeps him and he’s the owner he will overrule them. Messy situation if you ask me.

 

I generally have zero inside info, but I do know at least one view on TLR from the 3. Can PM if anyone is really interested. 

[joejoesox]

2 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Rick Hahn absolutely fucking sucks. The Rodon move alone should get his ass fired. White Sox qualify Rodon and they make the playoffs this season. I'm guessing that wasn't all his decision, though. You know that cheap mother fucker Reinsdorf probably didn't want to pay him.

I don't think they make the playoffs with Rodon but that definitely was a horrible decision to let him walk given all the time invested in him since drafted

[Stinky Stanky]

2 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Rick Hahn absolutely fucking sucks. The Rodon move alone should get his ass fired. White Sox qualify Rodon and they make the playoffs this season. I'm guessing that wasn't all his decision, though. You know that cheap mother fucker Reinsdorf probably didn't want to pay him.

With a payroll of $197M I'd place the blame at RH's feet.  He did get JR to spend the money, so I give him credit for that.  If I were JR, I'd be mad as hell about what he did with it.

[GreenSox]

Wonderful, they are debating La Russa.  They really  have their finger on the heart of the problem....

[chw42]

2 minutes ago, Stinky Stanky said:

With a payroll of $197M I'd place the blame at RH's feet.  He did get JR to spend the money, so I give him credit for that.  If I were JR, I'd be mad as hell about what he did with it.

Yeah, the payroll looks good in terms of total value, but JR also limits what kind of long-term money the FO can spend. Which in turn limits the types of players they can go after. We know JR won't give any mega-deals out, so now we're left with a hand-full of big deals to mid-level free agent types and almost every one of them has blown up in their face. Keuchel and Grandal's deals are now disastrous contracts. Keuchel might be off the books, but we wasted $36 million on him these last 2 years to get below replacement level innings. Grandal, unless he miraculously gets healthy again, is a replacement level catcher who can't even catch every day. Hendriks also got a similar level contract, but he's also trending downwards with potential elbow issues down the line. 

I don't know how Jerry or the FO can sit there with a straight face and tell any of us those investments were better than spending the $300+ million needed to land either Harper or Machado. The 3 aforementioned contracts with Kelly and Graveman added already sits at a total commitment of $222 million over about a 5 year span. Please tell me how that's better than getting 5+ years of prime production from Harper or Machado. 

[Highland]

13 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Wonderful, they are debating La Russa.  They really  have their finger on the heart of the problem....

The fact that there is a debate about LaRussa is amazing.  I can't imagine fans wanting to spend hard-earned money to go the ballpark knowing that LaRussa is the dugout. This just shows how bad things are in this organization. Do they want another year of weird decisions and slurred press conferences?

[chw42]

Machado since 2019: 14.9 fWAR, $89 million. $6.14 million/WAR. He's also about to be half-way done with his deal. 

Harper since 2019: 14.9 fWAR, $78 million. $5.23 million/WAR. He's got 9 years left on his deal.
 

[Texsox]

5 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

First off, someone is a parent when they produce offspring. It has absolutely nothing to do with marriage. Nothing in the definition of the word parent includes marriage. Nothing in the legal definition of parent, includes marriage. Two people can, and indeed are parents, when they have a child. So, no. That's not a "belief" at all... It's just a fact. Marriage is a religious and social construct that actually has absolutely nothing at all to do with being a parent.

Second, nobody was saying that. There was no "agnostic" person sharing their beliefs, while silencing the "religious person". Why do Evangelicals in this country feel the need to constantly push their beliefs on others (Dayton Moore is a perfect example)? And why do they have this persecution complex when someone tells them it's not appropriate?

Only one side was spouting off about their religious beliefs and forcing them onto others within the workplace with that anti-porn nonsense. 

Judging people who have a child out of wedlock, when the only difference between them and a married couple with a child is a stupid piece of paper, is holier than thou bullshit that has no place in this century. Religious beliefs should be kept out of the workplace(and government, but we're not going to get into that). That's the entire point here. 

Plus, Dayton Moore is a fucking hypocrite, who defended a guy who molested his six year old niece, and never showed remorse or atoned for it. This, while claiming that porn is basically at the root of evil(lol). 

Dayton Moore’s comments on Luke Heimlich draw backlash - Royals Review

Seems to me his religion is just another way for him to look down on others and claim moral superiority. But we're way off topic now.

Again, I agree with your view of parenting.

Here's what you said 

If you don't understand why projecting your religious beliefs on a sports team, in 2022, is a fucking ridiculous and idiotic thing, especially given how culturally diverse sports are, maybe you need to enter the 21st century?

You specified "projecting your religious beliefs" leaving open projecting your non religious beliefs. I just questioned why you allow some beliefs but not others. 

I don't believe a person has to be an evangelical to support diversity. I'm just a liberal minded individual open to allowing all views to be represented. I assume evangelicals have the same need to share their beliefs that you do. 

Nice conversation. Thank you. 

 

[soulfly]

5 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

First off, someone is a parent when they produce offspring. It has absolutely nothing to do with marriage. Nothing in the definition of the word parent includes marriage. Nothing in the legal definition of parent, includes marriage. Two people can, and indeed are parents, when they have a child. So, no. That's not a "belief" at all... It's just a fact. Marriage is a religious and social construct that actually has absolutely nothing at all to do with being a parent.

Second, nobody was saying that. There was no "agnostic" person sharing their beliefs, while silencing the "religious person". Why do Evangelicals in this country feel the need to constantly push their beliefs on others (Dayton Moore is a perfect example)? And why do they have this persecution complex when someone tells them it's not appropriate?

Only one side was spouting off about their religious beliefs and forcing them onto others within the workplace with that anti-porn nonsense. 

Judging people who have a child out of wedlock, when the only difference between them and a married couple with a child is a stupid piece of paper, is holier than thou bullshit that has no place in this century. Religious beliefs should be kept out of the workplace(and government, but we're not going to get into that). That's the entire point here. 

Plus, Dayton Moore is a fucking hypocrite, who defended a guy who molested his six year old niece, and never showed remorse or atoned for it. This, while claiming that porn is basically at the root of evil(lol). 

Dayton Moore’s comments on Luke Heimlich draw backlash - Royals Review

Seems to me his religion is just another way for him to look down on others and claim moral superiority. But we're way off topic now.

We get it dude, you hate religion.  It's fine, that's your right, f*** the church.  But bitching about it that hard is no different than those who love it and preach it to others.  They are equally as annoying.

 

But also, f*** Dayton Moore.