Fire Rick Hahn

[The Kids Can Play]

On 9/29/2022 at 5:01 AM, shago said:

Failing up .... should be the name of Rick's memoir one day.

How do I get to absolutely suck at my job, be the worst among my peers, and get a promotion?

Jerry Reinsdorf, please [go away] and take the clown show with you.

You are absolutely right about Rick Hahn failing up.

This is called "The Peter Principle", which is commonly known as a facetious and satirical theory that in any organization structure, a person can perform their job well and likely be promoted to the next level. They will tend to be promoted up the hierarchy until eventually, they reach a level of incompetence where they can longer perform their job well. i.e - Rick Hahn

Most successful and Intelligent owners do not tolerate such obvious losing mediocre results. Sharp owners are proactive and fix those ongoing problems by firing their incompetent executives.

Most smart owners would be extremely upset at their top executive if they granted that executive the go ahead in 2016 to tear down the club, trade away all the assets and do a complete rebuild and be in this position going into 2023.

Most successful and winning owners after 6 years of a rebuild that is a failing miserably, would most likely be furious they allowed their top executive to have the 7th highest payroll in baseball, miss the playoffs and their team trending backwards.

Most smart owners would probably question after 6 years, the poor roster signings, weak draft picks, inadequate (26th ranked) farm system, numerous horrible trades and the poor fundamental and dumb baseball being played on the field.

I'm not sure any successful owner except Jerry Reinsdorf and would tell his top executive, "Ok Rick, I get it, it was just bad luck injuries and in 2023 the team will be healthy and your roster construction is solid and not full of any holes or flaws."  "I'm confident you'll get us back to the playoffs next year in year 7 of this rebuild and contend for a world series title....even if I have to eat some expensive contracts and give you more money to spend." 

[South Side Hit Men]

19 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You are absolutely right about Rick Hahn failing up.

This is called "The Peter Principle", which is commonly known as a facetious and satirical theory that in any organization structure, a person can perform their job well and likely be promoted to the next level. They will tend to be promoted up the hierarchy until eventually, they reach a level of incompetence where they can longer perform their job well. i.e - Rick Hahn

Most successful and Intelligent owners do not tolerate such obvious losing mediocre results. Sharp owners are proactive and fix those ongoing problems by firing their incompetent executives.

Most smart owners would be extremely upset at their top executive if they granted that executive the go ahead in 2016 to tear down the club, trade away all the assets and do a complete rebuild and be in this position going into 2023.

Most successful and winning owners after 6 years of a rebuild that is a failing miserably, would most likely be furious they allowed their top executive to have the 7th highest payroll in baseball, miss the playoffs and their team trending backwards.

Most smart owners would probably question after 6 years, the poor roster signings, weak draft picks, inadequate (26th ranked) farm system, numerous horrible trades and the poor fundamental and dumb baseball being played on the field.

I'm not sure any successful owner except Jerry Reinsdorf and would tell his top executive, "Ok Rick, I get it, it was just bad luck injuries and in 2023 the team will be healthy and your roster construction is solid and not full of any holes or flaws."  "I'm confident you'll get us back to the playoffs next year in year 7 of this rebuild and contend for a world series title....even if I have to eat some expensive contracts and give you more money to spend." 

Don’t kid yourself, Jerry knows perfectly well Hahn doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to being a GM, same as he knew Gar Pax were incompetent boobs. 

Jerry doesn’t give a s%*# were the White Sox finish, although it is known second place is his preference.

Jerry likes Hahn personally and thus Hahn will be here fucking things up for as long as Hahn kneels to kiss Jerry’s pinky ring and wants to stay.

[WBWSF]

I've always found it interesting that JR fired Larry Himes (one  of his most successful GMs) but has kept Hahn all these years. This looks like Hahns 8th losing season in 10 years.

[Soxfest]

Until Jerry goes the way of Bill Wirtz nothing will change with this organization 

[Dick Allen]

26 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I've always found it interesting that JR fired Larry Himes (one  of his most successful GMs) but has kept Hahn all these years. This looks like Hahns 8th losing season in 10 years.

He fired Himes because A. he didn't like him personally, and B. Himes tried to keep him out of the decision making. Himes got fired after winning 94 games with the lowest payroll in baseball.

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Don’t kid yourself, Jerry knows perfectly well Hahn doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to being a GM, same as he knew Gar Pax were incompetent boobs. 

Jerry doesn’t give a s%*# were the White Sox finish, although it is known second place is his preference.

Jerry likes Hahn personally and thus Hahn will be here fucking things up for as long as Hahn kneels to kiss Jerry’s pinky ring and wants to stay.

Unfortunately you're probably right and this that is so disgusting and wrong as an owner to be so uncaring and careless with his organization and fans!

It won't be soon enough until Jerry either sells the team, lets his son or someone else from the outside come in to run it, or passes away, so the team can be sold.  

I wish and pray, no matter how unlikely it is...that a large majority of Sox fans get pissed about this and send a loud and clear message to this POS loser owner...and not pay any of their hard earned money on Sox games in 2023.

 

[Bossanoveralls]

36 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He fired Himes because A. he didn't like him personally, and B. Himes tried to keep him out of the decision making. Himes got fired after winning 94 games with the lowest payroll in baseball.

That just chapped my ass!

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

I've always found it interesting that JR fired Larry Himes (one  of his most successful GMs) but has kept Hahn all these years. This looks like Hahns 8th losing season in 10 years.

 

34 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He fired Himes because A. he didn't like him personally, and B. Himes tried to keep him out of the decision making. Himes got fired after winning 94 games with the lowest payroll in baseball.

Yeah another idiot decision from the clueless Reinsdorf that will follow his worthless owner legacy.

Let's get this straight:

1. Himes cleaned up the mess from Reinsdorf's initial stupid decision of hiring a play-by-play broadcaster Hawk to be a GM.

2. Jerry fired a GM that has turned around the Hawk Sox mess to a 2nd place 94 win season with the smallest payroll in baseball all because he didn't like him anymore. Real leadership from smart and successful owners, would sit their GM down and find out why they don't like them anymore, since initially Jerry must have loved Himes since he hired him in the first place. 

3. Jerry was mad because he felt Himes was keeping him out of decisions. Again a good leader and owner would sit down his GM and discuss the issues of what decisions  Jerry thought Himes was keeping from him. Maybe its a mater of just telling Himes to inform, copy or fyi him before Himes pulls the trigger in the future. 

4. Jerry avoids coaching or working with Himes to address his concerns and its more important to just get mad and fire his potential best GM ever.

5. Jerry neglects to consider the success of Himes in the fact, Himes drafted in 4 consecutive years with #1 draft picks of Jack McDowell, Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas and Alex Fernandez starting in 1987, that allowed him to win 90 games in 1990. Not to mention in 1989, he sent an aging Harold Baines to the Rangers for 2B Scott Fletcher, pitcher Wilson Alvarez and 20 year Sammy Sosa.  

I said it many times before and I'll say it again, no mater what the successes with the Bulls or Sox, it had nothing to do with Reinsdorf and he still is a god awful POS loser owner and the worst ever in Chicago!

 

[WBWSF]

21 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

 

Yeah another idiot decision from the clueless Reinsdorf that will follow his worthless owner legacy.

Let's get this straight:

1. Himes cleaned up the mess from Reinsdorf's initial stupid decision of hiring a play-by-play broadcaster Hawk to be a GM.

2. Jerry fired a GM that has turned around the Hawk Sox mess to a 2nd place 94 win season with the smallest payroll in baseball all because he didn't like him anymore. Real leadership from smart and successful owners, would sit their GM down and find out why they don't like them anymore, since initially Jerry must have loved Himes since he hired him in the first place. 

3. Jerry was mad because he felt Himes was keeping him out of decisions. Again a good leader and owner would sit down his GM and discuss the issues of what decisions  Jerry thought Himes was keeping from him. Maybe its a mater of just telling Himes to inform, copy or fyi him before Himes pulls the trigger in the future. 

4. Jerry avoids coaching or working with Himes to address his concerns and its more important to just get mad and fire his potential best GM ever.

5. Jerry neglects to consider the success of Himes in the fact, Himes drafted in 4 consecutive years with #1 draft picks of Jack McDowell, Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas and Alex Fernandez starting in 1987, that allowed him to win 90 games in 1990. Not to mention in 1989, he sent an aging Harold Baines to the Rangers for 2B Scott Fletcher, pitcher Wilson Alvarez and 20 year Sammy Sosa.  

I said it many times before and I'll say it again, no mater what the successes with the Bulls or Sox, it had nothing to do with Reinsdorf and he still is a god awful POS loser owner and the worst ever in Chicago!

 

JR also went on all the TV and radio shows and bad mothed Himes relentlessly after he fired him. It was really a a low class thing to do.

[Lip Man 1]

11 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

JR also went on all the TV and radio shows and bad mothed Himes relentlessly after he fired him. It was really a a low class thing to do.

September 15, 1990 - Owner Jerry Reinsdorf fired G.M. Larry Himes citing ‘personality differences.’ Himes drafted and signed Sox future stars like Frank Thomas, Jack McDowell, Robin Ventura and Alex Fernandez. During the press conference announcing the hiring of Ron Schueler as new G.M., Reinsdorf issued his famous ‘Point A to point B to point C’ comment. Later in a rare radio appearance he was candid on the subject to host Chet Coppock. “The fact is Larry Himes cannot get along with anybody. You can hardly find anybody in the Sox organization that wasn’t happy when Larry Himes left.”

[Lip Man 1]

One of the dividing points between the two men was that JR wanted the Sox to acquire down the stretch run for that season Mike Scott who was being made available by the Astros. Himes refused to part with any of the young players.

Another point and maybe the final nail (and Jeff Torborg told me the same thing) was how down the stretch the A's were able to claim both Harold Baines and Willie McGee on waivers when the Sox could have claimed one or both since they trailed Oakland in the standings.

Jeff told me that JR called him in his hotel room to ask what was going on. Jeff said he told him he had no idea.

[JoshPR]

3 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I've always found it interesting that JR fired Larry Himes (one  of his most successful GMs) but has kept Hahn all these years. This looks like Hahns 8th losing season in 10 years.

Larry himes didn't play nice in the sandbox. Wasn't a boot licker

[JoshPR]

Who the hell is gonna wanna sign here as a free agent? Who would play for this s%*# show

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

One of the dividing points between the two men was that JR wanted the Sox to acquire down the stretch run for that season Mike Scott who was being made available by the Astros. Himes refused to part with any of the young players.

Another point and maybe the final nail (and Jeff Torborg told me the same thing) was how down the stretch the A's were able to claim both Harold Baines and Willie McGee on waivers when the Sox could have claimed one or both since they trailed Oakland in the standings.

Jeff told me that JR called him in his hotel room to ask what was going on. Jeff said he told him he had no idea.

The Sox finished 9 games out of first in 1990, or three games further back than Jerry's infamous White Flag trade year (1997).

Larry Himes was correct to not mortgage the future for Mike Scott. He was due $0.7M for 1/3 of 1990 and $2.1M in 1991 ($2.8M total). He did pitch well down the stretch, but only managed two starts (12.86 ERA - worse than Dallas Keuchel)  before a career ending injury in 1991 (Age 36).

Willie McGee was a free agent in 1991, and would have helped. The Sox dodged a bullet by passing on Harold Baines, as Jerry would have kept him around for up to 12 years averaging about 1.2 bWAR a year at a significant salary.

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

“The fact is Larry Himes cannot get along with anybody. You can hardly find anybody in the Sox organization that wasn’t happy when Larry Himes left.”

- Jerry Reinsdorf

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by South Side Hit Men

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

One of the dividing points between the two men was that JR wanted the Sox to acquire down the stretch run for that season Mike Scott who was being made available by the Astros. Himes refused to part with any of the young players.

Another point and maybe the final nail (and Jeff Torborg told me the same thing) was how down the stretch the A's were able to claim both Harold Baines and Willie McGee on waivers when the Sox could have claimed one or both since they trailed Oakland in the standings.

Jeff told me that JR called him in his hotel room to ask what was going on. Jeff said he told him he had no idea.

Interesting info. Had no idea.

[shago]

7 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Most smart owners would be extremely upset at their top executive if they granted that executive the go ahead in 2016 to tear down the club, trade away all the assets and do a complete rebuild and Most smart owners would probably question after 6 years, the poor roster signings, weak draft picks, inadequate (26th ranked) farm system, numerous horrible trades and the poor fundamental and dumb baseball being played on the field.

Besides that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

FIRE RICK ? 

[JoshPR]

16 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Sox finished 9 games out of first in 1990, or three games further back than Jerry's infamous White Flag trade year (1997).

Larry Himes was correct to not mortgage the future for Mike Scott. He was due $0.7M for 1/3 of 1990 and $2.1M in 1991 ($2.8M total). He did pitch well down the stretch, but only managed two starts (12.86 ERA - worse than Dallas Keuchel)  before a career ending injury in 1991 (Age 36).

Willie McGee was a free agent in 1991, and would have helped. The Sox dodged a bullet by passing on Harold Baines, as Jerry would have kept him around for up to 12 years averaging about 1.2 bWAR a year at a significant salary.

 

90 team didn't need pitching. It needed power

[ThirdGen]

16 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Sox finished 9 games out of first in 1990, or three games further back than Jerry's infamous White Flag trade year (1997).

Larry Himes was correct to not mortgage the future for Mike Scott. He was due $0.7M for 1/3 of 1990 and $2.1M in 1991 ($2.8M total). He did pitch well down the stretch, but only managed two starts (12.86 ERA - worse than Dallas Keuchel)  before a career ending injury in 1991 (Age 36).

Willie McGee was a free agent in 1991, and would have helped. The Sox dodged a bullet by passing on Harold Baines, as Jerry would have kept him around for up to 12 years averaging about 1.2 bWAR a year at a significant salary.

 

Scott wouldn't have made that much of a difference, but worth noting the Sox were only three games back at the trade deadline.  They finished the season with the third best record in MLB, which they also had at the trade deadline, but had the misfortune of being in the West with Oakland prior to the wild card era.  That team was a legit contender.

[shago]

19 hours ago, WBWSF said:

JR also went on all the TV and radio shows and bad mothed Himes relentlessly after he fired him. It was really a a low class thing to do.

Jerry the Hut is a low class POS. Let's hope he gets poisoned soon by all the paste he eats ...

[Boopa1219]

I don’t want this guy making any significant decisions anymore for this team

[Jack Parkman]

I'm beginning to think there is zero skill in GMing. It is all dumb luck. 

[shago]

14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm beginning to think there is zero skill in GMing. It is all dumb luck. 

Wrong. See Neander/Bendix for starters. 

? Hahn

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm beginning to think there is zero skill in GMing. It is all dumb luck. 

Braves and Dodgers just luckier than others?

Why have a GM or leaders at all?

Let’s just allow AI’s and algorithm’s to make decisions and entirely divorce the human element entirely…that would still be much better than Rick Hahn’s roughly 25-30% career success rate.

[Tony]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm beginning to think there is zero skill in GMing. It is all dumb luck. 

Oh man, this has the makings of a classic.

[South Side Hit Men]

21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Braves and Dodgers just luckier than others?

Why have a GM or leaders at all?

Let’s just allow AI’s and algorithm’s to make decisions and entirely divorce the human element entirely…that would still be much better than Rick Hahn’s roughly 25-30% career success rate.

“Luck” is nonsense. Winning organizations use reason, logic and modern analytics. Guys like Casey Stengel, Earl Weaver and Davey Johnson were far ahead of their times in terms of tracking and understanding analytics and probability. 

The past several Sox managers have relied on TWTW, their gut and or their personal anecdotal biases (“he’s got a good face”) to drive their decision making. They have only had three solid managers  in my lifetime (Chuck Tanner, Bob Lemon and Jeff Torborg).

Ozzie’s primary strength was bringing Atlanta’s pitching philosophies, but he (and Tony) were stubborn and arrogant. Ozzie and Tony had a single great season / chance at winning a WS (1983, not 2021) and a near decade of mediocre teams, Ozzie’s teams typically fading in the second half.