Fire Rick Hahn

[Chicago White Sox]

After reading some of Hahn’s quotes from today, I figured this was worth a bump.

[Chicago White Sox]

20 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Should probably change the title to "Fire Hahn & Burry Jerry." Unless both are gone, nothing changes.

If Jerry were to exit the team, Hahn would be gone in a second.  Look at how atrocious his track record is over his 10 years as GM:

• 1st place finishes = once
• 2nd place finishes = once
• Playoffs reached = twice
• + .500 seasons = twice
• 3rd or worse finishes = eight

10 fucking years of this chump lawyer-speaking to us about parades, sustained success, and multiple championships and all we have to show for it is two good seasons where we exited in the 1st round.  For a guy kept around that long, it has to be one of the worst track records for a GM ever and somehow he keeps get more chances under Jerry.

The good news is any new owner would hear him use the word “precipice” and fire him on the spot.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Chicago White Sox

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If Jerry were to exit the team, Hahn would be gone in a second.  Look at how atrocious his track record is over his 10 years as GM:

• 1st place finishes = once
• 2nd place finishes = once
• Playoffs reached = twice
• + .500 seasons = twice
• 3rd or worse finishes = eight

10 fucking years of this chump lawyer-speaking to us about parades, sustained success, and multiple championships and all we have to show for it is two good seasons where we exited in the 1st round.  For a guy kept around that long, it has to be one of the worst track records for a GM ever and somehow he keeps get more chances under Jerry.

The good news is any new owner would hear him use the word “precipice” and fire him on the spot.

And don’t forget the strong rumors are that during 2020, Ricky asked him to acquire a starting pitcher and Hahn said no.

[southsideirish71]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If Jerry were to exit the team, Hahn would be gone in a second.  Look at how atrocious his track record is over his 10 years as GM:

• 1st place finishes = once
• 2nd place finishes = once
• Playoffs reached = twice
• + .500 seasons = twice
• 3rd or worse finishes = eight

10 fucking years of this chump lawyer-speaking to us about parades, sustained success, and multiple championships and all we have to show for it is two good seasons where we exited in the 1st round.  For a guy kept around that long, it has to be one of the worst track records for a GM ever and somehow he keeps get more chances under Jerry.

The good news is any new owner would hear him use the word “precipice” and fire him on the spot.

The day after Jerry is gone, Hahn, Kenny, Daryl Boston, and the rest of the cronies hiding out in the country club would all be getting new jobs.  

[maxjusttyped]

Just now, fathom said:

And don’t forget the strong rumors are that during 2020, Ricky asked him to acquire a starting pitcher and Hahn said no.

I've always wondered if they wanted Lynn at the deadline in 2020 but he wasn't willing to be traded. I know there were rumors Lynn was going to opt out of the season if Texas traded him somewhere he didn't want to go.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, maxjusttyped said:

I've always wondered if they wanted Lynn at the deadline in 2020 but he wasn't willing to be traded. I know there were rumors Lynn was going to opt out of the season if Texas traded him somewhere he didn't want to go.

I always thought Texas was taking offers on him but had a price that was way too high. From the White Sox I thought they were probably asking for Vaughn.

[Balta1701]

Guys, I think we're getting a little specific on the wishing for death. Let's at least have some limits on that.

[greg775]

Sox should have never parted ways with Dombroski in the organization. We'd have had a few more titles by now and not have to put up with this Hahn tank job/rebuild that failed. To not hire the best medical training staff also is inexcusable. Sox have become a laughingstock in the Hahn era.

[southsideirish71]

Just now, greg775 said:

Sox should have never parted ways with Dombroski in the organization. We'd have had a few more titles by now and not have to put up with this Hahn tank job/rebuild that failed. To not hire the best medical training staff also is inexcusable. Sox have become a laughingstock in the Hahn era.

Do you really think Dombrowski does Dombrowski things under Jerry and his budgets.   

[Chisoxfn]

53 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If Jerry were to exit the team, Hahn would be gone in a second.  Look at how atrocious his track record is over his 10 years as GM:

• 1st place finishes = once
• 2nd place finishes = once
• Playoffs reached = twice
• + .500 seasons = twice
• 3rd or worse finishes = eight

10 fucking years of this chump lawyer-speaking to us about parades, sustained success, and multiple championships and all we have to show for it is two good seasons where we exited in the 1st round.  For a guy kept around that long, it has to be one of the worst track records for a GM ever and somehow he keeps get more chances under Jerry.

The good news is any new owner would hear him use the word “precipice” and fire him on the spot.

100 percent for sure. 

[bmags]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If Jerry were to exit the team, Hahn would be gone in a second.  Look at how atrocious his track record is over his 10 years as GM:

• 1st place finishes = once
• 2nd place finishes = once
• Playoffs reached = twice
• + .500 seasons = twice
• 3rd or worse finishes = eight

10 fucking years of this chump lawyer-speaking to us about parades, sustained success, and multiple championships and all we have to show for it is two good seasons where we exited in the 1st round.  For a guy kept around that long, it has to be one of the worst track records for a GM ever and somehow he keeps get more chances under Jerry.

The good news is any new owner would hear him use the word “precipice” and fire him on the spot.

one crazy part about Hahn compared to KW is also how much money of JRs he's been allowed to waste in DFA. From Keppinger onward, there has been this thought the sox would hang onto guys just out of prudence, but he's had to go to his boss to cut (from my memory) some pretty big numbers in Keuchel, Keppinger, Eaton, and I know there have been more.

I remember in 2017 when this all kicked off hoping hahn would have learned the lesson on paying for depth pieces and the waste of money that was. But they can't help themselves. I thought having to waste $4 mill on emilio bonifacio when Sanchez outplayed him easily on $800k would have been some sort of revelation on paying for replacement players, but then they signed Leury for a 3 ... year...deal when they had Romy at that point on the way and Mendick. Both showed they could match negative value for free (this is all aside from the fact that we hoped they would, like, actually focus on building a farm but instead had hostetler try and just hack the farm by only drafting fat college players with advanced approaches).

He's so clearly hamstrung on some of the splash deals that could cover up his mistakes that it obscures how many mistakes he makes and how much more budget runway he'd have if he could just stop wasting money on depth.

Just where he is healthwise, I think if any other team started talking about trading hendriks it would be seen as somewhat savvy. But it's so obviously that hahn so bloated that bullpen in contracts they are trying to redistribute.

[bmags]

https://twitter.com/jamesfox917/status/1600105496995721216?s=46&t=dkm75wyEuQdyLbcA7WGTEQ

Having some hardcore Nick Friedell / Garpax era flashbacks.

[Tnetennba]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

one crazy part about Hahn compared to KW is also how much money of JRs he's been allowed to waste in DFA. From Keppinger onward, there has been this thought the sox would hang onto guys just out of prudence, but he's had to go to his boss to cut (from my memory) some pretty big numbers in Keuchel, Keppinger, Eaton, and I know there have been more.

I remember in 2017 when this all kicked off hoping hahn would have learned the lesson on paying for depth pieces and the waste of money that was. But they can't help themselves. I thought having to waste $4 mill on emilio bonifacio when Sanchez outplayed him easily on $800k would have been some sort of revelation on paying for replacement players, but then they signed Leury for a 3 ... year...deal when they had Romy at that point on the way and Mendick. Both showed they could match negative value for free (this is all aside from the fact that we hoped they would, like, actually focus on building a farm but instead had hostetler try and just hack the farm by only drafting fat college players with advanced approaches).

He's so clearly hamstrung on some of the splash deals that could cover up his mistakes that it obscures how many mistakes he makes and how much more budget runway he'd have if he could just stop wasting money on depth.

Just where he is healthwise, I think if any other team started talking about trading hendriks it would be seen as somewhat savvy. But it's so obviously that hahn so bloated that bullpen in contracts they are trying to redistribute.

If you really go back and look at all of the money Hahn has wasted on the fringes, it’s really no wonder why JR won’t give him more to waste this winter.  They are so averse to bad money in the future but have no problem wasting it on bad in the now.  The sum of all of Hahns bad money mistakes would pay for a few impact FA signings over that time, but no, we get the Emilio Bonefacios of the world burning $4M at a time.  

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

If you really go back and look at all of the money Hahn has wasted on the fringes, it’s really no wonder why JR won’t give him more to waste this winter.  They are so averse to bad money in the future but have no problem wasting it on bad in the now.  The sum of all of Hahns bad money mistakes would pay for a few impact FA signings over that time, but no, we get the Emilio Bonefacios of the world burning $4M at a time.  

Wellington Castillo. Why? Jay and Alonzo. Why? One that really chapped my ass, actually performed well but it was stupid. They pick up Joakim Soria and $8 million of his salary, to try to flip him at the deadline, because I’m guessing Chapman to the Cubs previously. Well Soria was better for the Sox than anyone could have expected, but theY were in the middle of a rebuild, why not see if you can find anyone in your system capable of being a closer. It may save you some money in the long run and failing wasn’t costing you anything. So Soria gets flipped for a minor league arm no longer in baseball and the Sox paid 5 or 6 million for this honor. Did everyone but Hahn know what Velasquez was a year ago?

And I get the “3 million, 8 million is nothing “ crowd but it sure would be nice to have some of it available now.

[bmags]

20 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Wellington Castillo. Why? Jay and Alonzo. Why? One that really chapped my ass, actually performed well but it was stupid. They pick up Joakim Soria and $8 million of his salary, to try to flip him at the deadline, because I’m guessing Chapman to the Cubs previously. Well Soria was better for the Sox than anyone could have expected, but theY were in the middle of a rebuild, why not see if you can find anyone in your system capable of being a closer. It may save you some money in the long run and failing wasn’t costing you anything. So Soria gets flipped for a minor league arm no longer in baseball and the Sox paid 5 or 6 million for this honor. Did everyone but Hahn know what Velasquez was a year ago?

And I get the “3 million, 8 million is nothing “ crowd but it sure would be nice to have some of it available now.

also they traded all the bullpen arms for like maxed out 25 year olds with back problems rather than trying to get younger higher ceiling guys.

[ShoeLessRob]

Every time this dude talks I want to fart in his face. 

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

also they traded all the bullpen arms for like maxed out 25 year olds with back problems rather than trying to get younger higher ceiling guys.

The list of reasons to move on from the guy is a lot longer than the list of reasons to keep him. He’s bright, no question. Seems like a nice person. But he’s just a bad GM, and if JR or KW conclude he’s actually a good GM who has been put in an impossible situation, why are they making the situation appear more impossible? It’s so messed up. 

[Chicago White Sox]

What I hate about Rick is it’s like he doesn’t get this mess is all his fault.  When the rebuild started, instead of going for high-end talent he drafted a bunch of high floor college guys who profiled as corner IF/OF types.  Perhaps that’s because he was concerned about his player development system not turning  young athletic prospects into quality major leaguers.  Regardless, he failed to build a pipeline of cheap talent despite multiple years of top 15 picks.  That is the biggest single reason we’re in this spot where we’re capped out and having to trade from our major league roster to fill needs.

Look at the Phillies for example.  When we were pursuing Machado & Harper, they were a year ahead of us in terms of their rebuild.  Since then, the bulk of their first wave of prospects ultimately failed whereas the bulk of our high profile guys mostly worked out.  However, despite those shortfalls, the Phillies were in the World Series last October while we were still dreaming about all those promised parades.  The reason for this?  The Phillies were able to go out and add impact talent in free agency.  Harper, Wheeler, Schwarber, and Castellanos were all signed to contracts that would have been franchise records in addition to the Realmuto extension.  And guess what?  Those guys carried their team and they’ve been able to supplement them with enough cheap above replacement level players from their farm.

Meanwhile, the Sox have had to allocate the bulk of their money to relievers and role players because the well completely dried up as soon as the first wave of talent was called up.  Hahn essentially kicked off a rebuild with several great trades and an awesome Robert signing, but completely failed in every element after that.  It’s absolutely mind-boggling how bad his mismanaged this thing.

[Tony]

23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What I hate about Rick is it’s like he doesn’t get this mess is all his fault.  When the rebuild started, instead of going for high-end talent he drafted a bunch of high floor college guys who profiled as corner IF/OF types.  Perhaps that’s because he was concerned about his player development system not turning  young athletic prospects into quality major leaguers.  Regardless, he failed to build a pipeline of cheap talent despite multiple years of top 15 picks.  That is the biggest single reason we’re in this spot where we’re capped out and having to trade from our major league roster to fill needs.

Look at the Phillies for example.  When we were pursuing Machado & Harper, they were a year ahead of us in terms of their rebuild.  Since then, the bulk of their first wave of prospects ultimately failed whereas the bulk of our high profile guys mostly worked out.  However, despite those shortfalls, the Phillies were in the World Series last October while we were still dreaming about all those promised parades.  The reason for this?  The Phillies were able to go out and add impact talent in free agency.  Harper, Wheeler, Schwarber, and Castellanos were all signed to contracts that would have been franchise records in addition to the Realmuto extension.  And guess what?  Those guys carried their team and they’ve been able to supplement them with enough cheap above replacement level players from their farm.

Meanwhile, the Sox have had to allocate the bulk of their money to relievers and role players because the well completely dried up as soon as the first wave of talent was called up.  Hahn essentially kicked off a rebuild with several great trades and an awesome Robert signing, but completely failed in every element after that.  It’s absolutely mind-boggling how bad his mismanaged this thing.

I'm never one to stand in the way of a good Hahn nut-kicking, because he absolutely deserves it, but it's not "all" his fault. 

If Rick was operating with a different owner, say Steve Cohen...Harper is probably here. They seemingly can always get that seat at the table, but when a contract needs to be signed, I'm not putting that all on Rick. 

But, the bigger point is they all need to go. They've failed as a collective. Jerry, Rick, Kenny, and down the list. It's a bad organization. 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

I'm never one to stand in the way of a good Hahn nut-kicking, because he absolutely deserves it, but it's not "all" his fault. 

If Rick was operating with a different owner, say Steve Cohen...Harper is probably here. They seemingly can always get that seat at the table, but when a contract needs to be signed, I'm not putting that all on Rick. 

But, the bigger point is they all need to go. They've failed as a collective. Jerry, Rick, Kenny, and down the list. It's a bad organization. 

I would be really curious  as to how this would look.

[Tony]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I would be really curious  as to how this would look.

I don't want to find out with my baseball team, let someone else run that experiment. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

If Hahn did his job and tried to improve the team at the deadline instead of sabotaging the season he would have more money to spend this year.  They certainly wouldn't have won the division but at least they could have made it more competitive and come closer to the attendance projections and Reindorf wouldn't have "lost" so much money.  You reap what you sow, Rick. 

[Chicago White Sox]

16 minutes ago, Tony said:

I'm never one to stand in the way of a good Hahn nut-kicking, because he absolutely deserves it, but it's not "all" his fault. 

If Rick was operating with a different owner, say Steve Cohen...Harper is probably here. They seemingly can always get that seat at the table, but when a contract needs to be signed, I'm not putting that all on Rick. 

But, the bigger point is they all need to go. They've failed as a collective. Jerry, Rick, Kenny, and down the list. It's a bad organization. 

Of course Jerry is at the root of it all, but if your owner is unwilling to spend on big-time free agents then reprioritize your money towards player development, analytics, pro scouting, the training staff, etc.  We have been below average in almost every function under Rick since Herm left.  At some point, you can’t keep using the owner’s aversion to risk as an excuse and need to adjust your plan.  Hahn has completely failed in that regard IMO.

[Lip Man 1]

"You win with star players" - Dave Dombrowski

[Harry Chappas]

Rick has a budget....seems like a decent enough budget, he just has no clue how to use it.