Fire Rick Hahn

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Rick Hahn pees sitting down. 

Plenty of reason to rip on Hahn without veiled sexism.  Come on now. 

[LittleHurtCG]

14 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

Funny, Atlanta did the same thing, yet they don't have nearly the degree of terrible effort, results and indifference.

Perhaps its more the organization itself?

or maybe it is a combination of the players and the organization? There were warning signs for all 3 of the big extensions ( Moncada, Eloy, Robert). 

It honestly feels the early extensions were a smokescreen in some regards. Hahn knew that no major free agents like Machado or Harper were coming. He could say most of the $$$ was already spent on extensions as a cover for JR's alligator arms. 

[Chisoxfn]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Just an FYI, if the White Sox do what they haven't done all season, and win the next 2 games, they can be the 4th MLB team ever to start the season 9-16 or worse and make the playoffs. If they split the next 2 games, they can be the second team ever to make the playoffs with an 8-17 start. If they lose the next 2 games, no team has ever started out 7-18 and made the playoffs. 

 

The season is already over.This is supposed to be the middle of their window. Hahn needs to go today.

 

Rick Hahn is a master of sustained losing. Mired in mediocrity would be a step up. JR has used the Step A to Step B bit many times with both his teams when getting rid of coaches and executives. Has there ever been anyone, withany team, in any sport, that has proven he cannot get a team over the hump more  than Rick Hahn? 

I have largley thought this was a prove it year for Hanh. He blamed everything on TLR, which I'm guessing upset JR, but we know JR and loyalty.  He wasn't given any extra payroll for a reason - I think it was - you said it was X, go prove it was that and not your poor roster construction (and I'm guessing TLR probably quietly would have made his piece to JR, regardless, on his concerns, around player development, roster construction, etc.  

At this point - I could see KW retiring (not sure when his contract is over) and Rick getting the axe.  I know everyone is saying Getz is next, but I wonder if JR would actually go an outside route.  I know he doesn't like the Astros - but could his son will some influence on this and they bring in former Astros GM (1% chance) or some form of a true outsider to try and start from scratch. If for nothing else - make that investment now leading into a potential sale of the franchise. 

JR is stubborn and loyal though, but he can't be happy with how this is going. He's also patient - so I don't see it happening immediately but if you are going to do it and they are still sub .500 by end of May and showing no signs of life, even for JR, that has to be time.  

It is sad how apathetic of an owner he seems to be and how accepting he has been of consistent, substandard poor performance from the leaders of his organization.  

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

TLR was a bad hire and a problem.  However, his every single in game decision no matter how small was criticized beyond belief last year. There were entire threads dedicated to archiving his every in game move and then a bunch of piling on by posters.  There was a faction of posters around here who placed 100% of the blame last year on Tony. That was the narrative  the Chicago sports media was running with all offseason as well, that Tony was the problem and that a new manager and coaching staff would get this team back on track. .  Most of the biggest TLR haters have gone awol now that their favorite punching bag is gone, however. 

You nailed it. The players assembled for this team are just not that good. There isn't a manager in the history of the game who could have won anything significant with the "core" assembled by Hahn. Rick Hahn has been in over his head as general manager of the White Sox since his first day on the job. 

I'm happy to volunteer as a person who said that Tony Larussa was awful and as you asked yesterday the #1 reason the White Sox lost to the Astros in 2021. I can also try to track down my "Rick Hahn is the worst GM in baseball" series from 2018 if it helps.

The only way that he was an excuse for Rick Hahn also being awful is that Hahn should have resigned when LaRussa was hired. Saying that LaRussa was blamed for 100% of the problem last year in a thread started last year called "Fire Rick Hahn" is patently absurd, but it's the only way you folks can come back and defend dear Tony since you can't come back and justify walking guys with two strikes or any of the other crap he did.

You had the worst possible coach, a guy who should never have been hired, combined with a GM who is completely inadequate at his job and who should have been fired 6 different times in his career. It's not surprising how quickly this all came crashing down.

[Bob Sacamano]

The posters who usually defend this organization and this core are quiet.

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I have largley thought this was a prove it year for Hanh. He blamed everything on TLR, which I'm guessing upset JR, but we know JR and loyalty.  He wasn't given any extra payroll for a reason - I think it was - you said it was X, go prove it was that and not your poor roster construction (and I'm guessing TLR probably quietly would have made his piece to JR, regardless, on his concerns, around player development, roster construction, etc.  

At this point - I could see KW retiring (not sure when his contract is over) and Rick getting the axe.  I know everyone is saying Getz is next, but I wonder if JR would actually go an outside route.  I know he doesn't like the Astros - but could his son will some influence on this and they bring in former Astros GM (1% chance) or some form of a true outsider to try and start from scratch. If for nothing else - make that investment now leading into a potential sale of the franchise. 

JR is stubborn and loyal though, but he can't be happy with how this is going. He's also patient - so I don't see it happening immediately but if you are going to do it and they are still sub .500 by end of May and showing no signs of life, even for JR, that has to be time.  

It is sad how apathetic of an owner he seems to be and how accepting he has been of consistent, substandard poor performance from the leaders of his organization.  

I'm skeptical. JR hates the finance owners, and luhnow is a finance owner kinda guy. Luhnow is a "find market inefficiencies" guy, JR is a sit back, do nothing, extract rents, complain about paying taxes on your rents kinda guy.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

I'm skeptical. JR hates the finance owners, and luhnow is a finance owner kinda guy. Luhnow is a "find market efficiencies" guy, JR is a sit back, do nothing, extract rents, complain about paying taxes on your rents kinda guy.

I think you were referring to Click not Luhnow, but still I'd group Tampa Rays guys as finance owner picks.

[Lip Man 1]

13 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I have largley thought this was a prove it year for Hanh. He blamed everything on TLR, which I'm guessing upset JR, but we know JR and loyalty.  He wasn't given any extra payroll for a reason - I think it was - you said it was X, go prove it was that and not your poor roster construction (and I'm guessing TLR probably quietly would have made his piece to JR, regardless, on his concerns, around player development, roster construction, etc.  

At this point - I could see KW retiring (not sure when his contract is over) and Rick getting the axe.  I know everyone is saying Getz is next, but I wonder if JR would actually go an outside route.  I know he doesn't like the Astros - but could his son will some influence on this and they bring in former Astros GM (1% chance) or some form of a true outsider to try and start from scratch. If for nothing else - make that investment now leading into a potential sale of the franchise. 

JR is stubborn and loyal though, but he can't be happy with how this is going. He's also patient - so I don't see it happening immediately but if you are going to do it and they are still sub .500 by end of May and showing no signs of life, even for JR, that has to be time.  

It is sad how apathetic of an owner he seems to be and how accepting he has been of consistent, substandard poor performance from the leaders of his organization.  

I've been told Kenny's deal is up after next year.

And as long as JR is making money the results on the field are secondary. He still wants to win, but HIS way which is an important distinction. 

[Southwest Sider]

27 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

The posters who usually defend this organization and this core are quiet.

Theres nothing to defend anymore. Even the best of the loyalists cant defend this team who looks to be historically bad.

[FloydBannister1983]

30 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

The posters who usually defend this organization and this core are quiet.

Not only defend … they actively attacked anyone who said, early on, “Hey, maybe these guys don’t look as good as you may think.”  It was on the verge of turning into WSI in 2018-2019.

[ShoeLessRob]

37 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

The posters who usually defend this organization and this core are quiet.

It’s Hahn and Jerry’s burner accounts. 

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, Highland said:

Sorry got my history wrong, but I don't follow the Hawks anymore. Stopped a long time ago because of Wirtz.  Of course, they won't can Grifol in April. I don't expect anything much to happen.  But I was trying to make a point. Sometimes an organization can't wait for disaster to happen.  If they sit on their hands too long, they are in denial. About many things. And that won't just mean bad things for this season.

I understand your point, I just think it’s lacking full context.  The Hawks were coming into their own and everyone knew it, the blackhawks watched Savard struggle for two seasons with what they felt was a talented roster and moved on.  

the white Sox are coming off a .500 year that they we’re predicted to be a playoff contender, and are trying to reset.  What do you even know about Grifol 4 weeks into the season?  I know the Blackhawk’s knew a hell of a lot more about Savard going forward than the white sox do right now about Grifol.  Does a different manager honestly change this team for the better, and if he even exists do you really believe this team will hire THAT manager?

[The Kids Can Play]

46 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm happy to volunteer as a person who said that Tony Larussa was awful and as you asked yesterday the #1 reason the White Sox lost to the Astros in 2021. I can also try to track down my "Rick Hahn is the worst GM in baseball" series from 2018 if it helps.

The only way that he was an excuse for Rick Hahn also being awful is that Hahn should have resigned when LaRussa was hired. Saying that LaRussa was blamed for 100% of the problem last year in a thread started last year called "Fire Rick Hahn" is patently absurd, but it's the only way you folks can come back and defend dear Tony since you can't come back and justify walking guys with two strikes or any of the other crap he did.

You had the worst possible coach, a guy who should never have been hired, combined with a GM who is completely inadequate at his job and who should have been fired 6 different times in his career. It's not surprising how quickly this all came crashing down.

All great points! However your best point is that Hahn should have resigned when TLR was hired. In hindsight I'm sure in Hahn's own mind, I'm sure he agrees. If he left then his resume wouldn't be as damaged as it has become hanging on. Another owner would easily understand that not being able to hire your own manager is wrong. Now his resume has been trashed even more and probably assures the fact he will never get another quality GM job with a successful wining team. For that matter any losing team. Hell, what owner of a real bad losing team, would want Hahn to be responsible in turning their fortunes. He already proved he failed miserably in his last attempt. 

[Sleepy Harold]

42 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I've been told Kenny's deal is up after next year.

And as long as JR is making money the results on the field are secondary. He still wants to win, but HIS way which is an important distinction. 

JR wanting to win "his way" validates what many of us have felt for a long time, which is that winning isn't and hasn't been important and is a secondary perk if it actually does happen. 

[Dick Allen]

Just now, The Kids Can Play said:

All great points! However your best point is that Hahn should have resigned when TLR was hired. In hindsight I'm sure in Hahn's own mind, I'm sure he agrees. If he left then his resume wouldn't be as damaged as it has become hanging on. Another owner would easily understand that not being able to hire your own manager is wrong. Now his resume has been trashed even more and probably assures the fact he will never get another quality GM job with a successful wining team. For that matter any losing team. Hell, what owner of a real bad losing team, would want Hahn to be responsible in turning their fortunes. He already proved he failed miserably in his last attempt. 

Actually he may have found a decision making job if he left then, I agree with you. Sox were coming off a great partial year, probably a little earlier than had been assumed.

Now, who would hire him? Granted, he tore it down and did well with Sale, Q and Eaton because of contracts he negotiated. But not many teams will have that. Development and roster construction are not strengths. He obviously has a hard time with free agency. Filling holes is a huge problem. I could see a team hiring him for contract negotiation purposes, but he's working his last job as an MLB franchise personnel decision maker.. 

[Kyyle23]

2 hours ago, LittleHurtCG said:

TLR was a bad hire and a problem.  However, his every single in game decision no matter how small was criticized beyond belief last year. There were entire threads dedicated to archiving his every in game move and then a bunch of piling on by posters.  There was a faction of posters around here who placed 100% of the blame last year on Tony. That was the narrative  the Chicago sports media was running with all offseason as well, that Tony was the problem and that a new manager and coaching staff would get this team back on track. .  Most of the biggest TLR haters have gone awol now that their favorite punching bag is gone, however. 

You nailed it. The players assembled for this team are just not that good. There isn't a manager in the history of the game who could have won anything significant with the "core" assembled by Hahn. Rick Hahn has been in over his head as general manager of the White Sox since his first day on the job. 

This entire site save like 5 people hated TLR, who went into hiding?  Lmao

[baseball_gal_aly]

 

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

 

Yeah, but the White Sox tried. Maybe have a parade and award them a participation trophy. Rick then can speak afterwards. 

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

I think the point is that these players Hahn acquired were never as good as advertised or hoped for.  I’m not sure that they succeed with another organization.

I think that's very possible. I also think that the organization as a whole is so incompetent with player development that it's possible they actually would end up more successful with another organization.

Ultimately, I imagine it's a little from column A and a little from column B. The FO overrated the players and the organization couldn't further develop them, so here we are.

[Bad Hombre]

Three shitty small market teams ?

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, Bad Hombre said:

Three shitty small market teams ?

One perennial playoff team, one recent WS winner, and the Chicago White Sox.

[Dick Allen]

Who can argue with JR's approach. This is his 43rd season of ownership, and his team had that one year it won a playoff series. 

What ungrateful bastards White Sox fans are. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Who can argue with JR's approach. This is his 43rd season of ownership, and his team had that one year it won a playoff series. 

What ungrateful bastards White Sox fans are. 

ugh and this is the one franchise where it's like an improvement.

[pcq]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I've been told Kenny's deal is up after next year.

And as long as JR is making money the results on the field are secondary. He still wants to win, but HIS way which is an important distinction. 

If Uncle Jer is no longer day to day management that leaves Ken to run the show who also is getting an ownership interest I thought.

[GreenSox]

5 hours ago, bmags said:

When Hahn switched to rebuild, the entire org should have switched full throttle to player dev and scouting. Maybe hahn feels they did, but full throttle for career sox employees is not full throttle for other orgs. Hahn is capable of catching up to where other teams were 5 years ago, and then he rests on his laurels that they did so much.

He'll never do enough because he's lazy and entitled.

This is a vivid depiction of what has happened.
I never thought Hahn was much of a GM, but a) in June 2016 when he trades for Shields and then drafts Burdi to rush to the pen; and then b) a month later announces that it's time to rebuild, that was it.  How could any normal organization not kick this guy after that dog and pony show?