Fire Rick Hahn

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 7/23/2022 at 1:33 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

There are so many parties to blame for this disaster of a a season, but Hahn is chief amongst them with one of the worst off-seasons in recent memory for what should have been a legit championship contending team.  A big part of that is his failure to build quality scouting and player development functions, which has stalled our pipeline of talent and has lead to poor acquisitions at the major league level.  There have been some improvements recently (I like what Shirley is doing in the draft), but it’s too little too late IMO.  It’s time to hold the top decision maker accountable and that means Rick Hahn has to go.

Every day I find out new stuff that boggles my mind about the whole front office like the difference between Sheets home and rode splits. Sheets shouldn't even be playing on the road. Where's analytics with this simple info. Who's getting important info to the people who could use it ? So here's another one.

 Brandon Drury, with his 20 HR, which the Sox surely could've used is traded for an 18 yo, DR, SS in the ACL that the Padres paid $1.8M for 2 or 3 years ago.

I don't know maybe he was exactly what the Reds wanted considering the Padres got Drury and no one else did.

However, how could the Sox not beat that ? Did they even look into Drury ? He's a multi-positional guy who would've easily been the Sox best power hitter.

Couldn't some underling  have been looking into what other teams were looking for . Are the Sox understaffed ? There's a lot going on in the off season and during the trade deadline. They'd have to have some idea Drury would be available for at least a month now. How is he overlooked ?

Edited August 4, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Every day I find out new stuff that boggles my mind about the whole front office like the difference between Sheets home and rode splits. Sheets shouldn't even be playing on the road. Where's analytics with this simple info. Who's getting important info to the people who could use it ? So here's another one.

 Brandon Drury, with his 20 HR, which the Sox surely could've used is traded for an 18 yo, DR, SS in the ACL that the Padres paid $1.8M for 2 or 3 years ago.

I don't know maybe he was exactly what the Reds wanted considering the Padres got Drury and no one else did.

However, how could the Sox not beat that ? Did they even look into Drury ? He's a multi-positional guy who would've easily been the Sox best power hitter.

Couldn't some underling  have been looking into what other teams were looking for . Are the Sox understaffed ? There's a lot going on in the off season and during the trade deadline. They'd have to have some idea Drury would be available for at least a month now. How is he overlooked ?

And he’s really strong against RHP this year, at least by lowered Sox standards.

 

Versus LHP 1.016

 Versus RHP  806

Edited August 4, 2022 by caulfield12

[Dominikk85]

I think hahn is a smart person but he seems to be a bit risk averse. 

In drafts he often went with the polished performance college guys and also he rarely pulled the trigger in big trades to buy except for the kimbrel trade. 

 

Do you think he got a little gun shy after the tatis jr trade? 

I also don't like that he did almost nothing this year. 

 

Sure, the manager isn't great and there have been lots of injuries but they were only like 2-3 games back behind two pretty mediocre teams, half of the division is coming out of a rebuild and the core is in their prime now. 

 

I mean what is he waiting for? I'm not suggesting trading montgomery or colas but why not trade some guys out of the 6-12 range for more help? 

The division likely isn't staying this easy forever so they should really try to make it work the next 2-3 years. 

 

The twins actually did a lot at the deadline. 

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Dominikk85 said:

I think hahn is a smart person but he seems to be a bit risk averse. 

In drafts he often went with the polished performance college guys and also he rarely pulled the trigger in big trades to buy except for the kimbrel trade. 

 

Do you think he got a little gun shy after the tatis jr trade? 

I also don't like that he did almost nothing this year. 

 

Sure, the manager isn't great and there have been lots of injuries but they were only like 2-3 games back behind two pretty mediocre teams, half of the division is coming out of a rebuild and the core is in their prime now. 

 

I mean what is he waiting for? I'm not suggesting trading montgomery or colas but why not trade some guys out of the 6-12 range for more help? 

The division likely isn't staying this easy forever so they should really try to make it work the next 2-3 years. 

 

The twins actually did a lot at the deadline. 

Takes two to tango. My guess is no GMs were willing to hand Hahn a difference maker, even on an expiring deal, for anyone outside the Sox top 5-6 prospects. If he wasn’t willing to Montgomery or Colas unless elite talent was coming back (right call), or the next tier of Vera, Sosa, Ramos and Rodriguez for rentals then frankly we had very little to offer. 

It’s been an awful 12 months for Hahn and I think he should be fired. But I’m glad we didn’t see him overpay for marginal upgrades at the deadline. This team is still plenty good to win the division, and probably isn’t good enough to advance past the ALDS without major good fortune regardless of a player or two. 

We certainly need the GM, whether it’s Hahn (likely) or his replacement to figure out how to get this team more athletic, better defensively and more left handed this winter. Pains to say it cause he’s a stud, but trading AV is likely the best path forward. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by ChiSox59

[caulfield12]

Very obvious that criticism of Hahn will be lighter if the team continues to underperform, Robert stays injured and then there’s the TLR excuse.

If he did try to fix them and all the trades went awry like last year...goodbye Hahn.

Almost wrote "Goodbye Lenin" because Hahn is stuck in a 1989 mentality and can't move into or adjust to modern times.

The fact is that the Guardians have the best farm system in the division now and are already utilizing eleven rookies this year.  The average age of their offensive core other than Ramirez and Reyes must be somewhere around 2-3 years younger than the Sox, and that's closer to five considering how few even make it to their mid 30s anymore, outside of mostly relievers and just a handful of position players.

Edited August 4, 2022 by caulfield12

[hogan873]

The off season moves were bad, even on paper.  The team went into the season really no better than last season, and that's a huge fail.  The lack of deadline moves looks really bad.  The Athletic gave the Sox an F for their deadline, and that's a fair grade.  I'm sure Hahn tried to make some trades, and as it has been mentioned, if other GMs don't like what the Sox have to offer, they're not going to deal.   That doesn't excuse Hahn just because other GMs wouldn't play ball.  It's his fault the team is constructed the way it is.  It's his fault the payroll is one of the higher in baseball with mediocre talent.  It's his fault the Sox didn't have the pieces necessary to make impactful moves at the deadline.

So, yeah, he needs to go.  Not really for the lack of deadline moves but for why moves needed to be made but no moves could be made.

[caulfield12]

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/

 

Look at the Top 13 payrolls, higher than MLB overall league average.

All of those teams are in solid playoff position except Red Sox White Sox and Angels.

Angels already fired Maddon, Phillies did the same with Girardi.

The other online is Cardinals right there for the division and final WC spot.

Red Sox already started to prepare for transition phase losing Bogaerts Eovaldi Martinez but still added more than the Sox because Hosmer is an improvement over Dalbec and their other 1B.  Yes, they'be been that bad.

Angels already making plans around Trout's health and Ohtani's future.

Those three teams are the closest to stuck, with the Cardinals at least possessing a much strong farm system and more payroll flexibility.  They just didn't think trading the entire farm and Carlson/Gorman made sense for Soto.

With Diekman, they added even more bullpen salary commitments for 2023.   All they can do is trade Jimenez or Vaughn, but that results in a very similar team next year.

Edited August 4, 2022 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 Brandon Drury, with his 20 HR, which the Sox surely could've used is traded for an 18 yo, DR, SS in the ACL that the Padres paid $1.8M for 2 or 3 years ago.

Just using the fangraphs ratings, the Sox equivalent would have been giving up someone like Yolbert for him.

Hahn could have snagged one of these platoon lefty hitters, but I'm not sure he was looking for that.
But I can't blame him for being measured for this .500 team.  The debacle over the winter is another story (as are his many other debacles).
A mediocre front office to begin with, and then  LaRussa in the mix, ....we could have a real mess, that replacing only Hahn won't fix.

[Balta1701]

52 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Just using the fangraphs ratings, the Sox equivalent would have been giving up someone like Yolbert for him.

Hahn could have snagged one of these platoon lefty hitters, but I'm not sure he was looking for that.
But I can't blame him for being measured for this .500 team.  The debacle over the winter is another story (as are his many other debacles).
A mediocre front office to begin with, and then  LaRussa in the mix, ....we could have a real mess, that replacing only Hahn won't fix.

Bah, big difference between someone who is 18 and someone who is 24 for a team selling players off. Most rebuilding teams will be after the ceiling of the 18 year old rather than the closer to MLB, older, lower ceiling guy. They prefer the small chance of a true breakout from the younger guy. (Notably, the one team I can think of that does not do this is Oakland).

[South Side Hit Men]

43 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/

Look at the Top 13 payrolls, higher than MLB overall league average.

All of those teams are in solid playoff position except Red Sox White Sox and Angels.

The New York A.L., Houston, Toronto, Milwaukee, Seattle and Tampa Bay have done the best in terms of payroll and WS expectations.

Philadelphia, Los Angeles A. L., Chicago N.L, Colorado, Detroit and Washington have done the worst job.

(Odds MGM World Series Futures Profit for $1 wagered)

• Top Payrolls: 1. LAD $265M ($3.5); 2. NYM $261M ($6); 3. NYY $252M ($3.5); 4. PHI $242M ($50); 5. SD $221M ($9).
• High Payrolls: 6. BOS $200M ($100); 7. CHW $196M ($40); 8. HOU $183M ($4.5); 9. ATL $182M ($12); 10. LAA $180M ($1,000).
• Average Payrolls: 11. TOR $175M ($12); 12. STL $162M ($40); 13. SF $156M ($150); 14. CHC $148M ($5,000); 15. TEX $144M ($1,000).
• Below Average Payrolls: 16. MIN $142M ($40); 17. COL $138M ($5,000); 18. DET $135M ($5,000); 19. MIL $132M ($26); 20. WAS $123M ($5,000).
• Low Payrolls: 21. SEA $114M ($30); 22. CIN $113M ($5,000); 23. KC $92M ($5,000); 24. TB $91M ($41); 25. Arizona $85M ($5,000)
• Tanking: 26. MIA $84M ($5,000); 27, CLE $68M ($80); 28. PIT $66M ($5,000); 29. OAK $45M ($5,000); 30, BAL $44M ($500).

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The New York A.L., Houston, Toronto, Milwaukee, Seattle and Tampa Bay have done the best in terms of payroll and WS expectations.

Philadelphia, Los Angeles A. L., Chicago N.L, Colorado, Detroit and Washington have done the worst job.

(Odds MGM World Series Futures Profit for $1 wagered)

• Top Payrolls: 1. LAD $265M ($3.5); 2. NYM $261M ($6); 3. NYY $252M ($3.5); 4. PHI $242M ($50); 5. SD $221M ($9).
• High Payrolls: 6. BOS $200M ($100); 7. CHW $196M ($40); 8. HOU $183M ($4.5); 9. ATL $182M ($12); 10. LAA $180M ($1,000).
• Average Payrolls: 11. TOR $175M ($12); 12. STL $162M ($40); 13. SF $156M ($150); 14. CHC $148M ($5,000); 15. TEX $144M ($1,000).
• Below Average Payrolls: 16. MIN $142M ($40); 17. COL $138M ($5,000); 18. DET $135M ($5,000); 19. MIL $132M ($26); 20. WAS $123M ($5,000).
• Low Payrolls: 21. SEA $114M ($30); 22. CIN $113M ($5,000); 23. KC $92M ($5,000); 24. TB $91M ($41); 25. Arizona $85M ($5,000)
• Tanking: 26. MIA $84M ($5,000); 27, CLE $68M ($80); 28. PIT $66M ($5,000); 29. OAK $45M ($5,000); 30, BAL $44M ($500).

Not sure how CLE is tanking...or God help the Sox when they are actually trying to compete.

Baltimore might be the positive surprise of year, along with Seattle.

Even Pitt and Miami are trending upwards.

[GreenSox]

50 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Bah, big difference between someone who is 18 and someone who is 24 for a team selling players off. Most rebuilding teams will be after the ceiling of the 18 year old rather than the closer to MLB, older, lower ceiling guy. They prefer the small chance of a true breakout from the younger guy. (Notably, the one team I can think of that does not do this is Oakland).

 Plenty of 22-24 year olds went in these deadline trades;  Sox had prospects to trade outside of their top 6 or so,.  That said, I'm glad they didn't.

 

[GreenSox]

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Not sure how CLE is tanking...or God help the Sox when they are actually trying to compete.

Baltimore might be the positive surprise of year, along with Seattle.

Even Pitt and Miami are trending upwards.

Sox #7 in payroll - damn inefficient.   would be closer to the Cardinals but for   c. $29 mill on Pollock, Leury, VV and Joe Kelly.  Unfortunately, c. $21 mill is guaranteed next season to those guys.

[South Side Hit Men]

29 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Not sure how CLE is tanking...or God help the Sox when they are actually trying to compete.

Well, they sure ain't trying. Their position vis a vis the White Sox is irrelevant. Their payroll is the size of 2022 Keuchel, Lynn, Grandal, Pollock and Leury. Come to think of it, perhaps the Sox should also be classified as tanking. 

2021 Trade Deadline:

• 7/29: Traded Cesar Hernandez to the Chicago White Sox. Received Konnor Pilkington.

• 7/30: Traded Eddie Rosario and cash to the Atlanta Braves. Received Pablo Sandoval.. Released Pablo Sandoval.

2022 Offseason transactions: Signed Bryan Shaw as a free agent.

2022 Trade Deadline: Traded Sandy Leon to the Minnesota Twins. Received Ian Hamilton.

Edited August 4, 2022 by South Side Hit Men

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Well, they sure ain't trying. Their position vis a vis the White Sox is irrelevant. Their payroll is the size of 2022 Keuchel, Lynn, Grandal, Pollock and Leury. Come to think of it, perhaps the Sox should also be classified as tanking. 

2021 Trade Deadline:

• 7/29: Traded Cesar Hernandez to the Chicago White Sox. Received Konnor Pilkington.

• 7/30: Traded Eddie Rosario and cash to the Atlanta Braves. Received Pablo Sandoval.. Released Pablo Sandoval.

2022 Offseason transactions: Signed Bryan Shaw as a free agent.

2022 Trade Deadline: Traded Sandy Leon to the Minnesota Twins. Received Ian Hamilton.

Yet they were able to afford a $140 million extension for Jose Ramirez, almost twice Grandal's money...with 2-3 more hitters, they're going to be a bear to deal with even at an $80-90 million payroll.

 

[South Side Hit Men]

32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Yet they were able to afford a $140 million extension for Jose Ramirez, almost twice Grandal's money...with 2-3 more hitters, they're going to be a bear to deal with even at an $80-90 million payroll.

MLB fears losing both the 2018 case and having future grievances and repercussions so a few of the bottom basement teams (Cleveland, Miami and Tampa) locked up players long-term after the new CBA agreement.  Wander Franco and Jose Ramirez's deals (both far below market value) are efforts to avoid future grievances in the event they lose their non payroll spending justifications being challenged via the 2018 grievance.

CBA Page 139 (I couldn't find the 2022 CBA online, but it was reported Revenue Sharing provisions in the new CBA were unchanged).

https://www.mlbplayers.com/_files/ugd/b0a4c2_95883690627349e0a5203f61b93715b5.pdf

Quote

A principal objective of the Revenue Sharing Plan is to promote the growth of the Game and the industry on an individual Club and on an aggregate basis. Accordingly, each Club shall use its revenue sharing receipts (including any distributions from the Commissioner’s Discretionary Fund) in an effort to improve its performance on the field.

Teams are defending their spending by including spending  less than minimum wage on minor league players, government funded minor league and spring training stadiums, and other "player development" costs in their "on field performance improvements".

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/mlbpa-files-revenue-sharing-grievance-four-teams/

Quote

"Our revenue-sharing receipts have decreased for seven consecutive seasons while our major league payroll has more than doubled over this same period," Coonelly said in a statement. "Our revenue-sharing receipts are now just a fraction of what we spend on major league payroll. We also have made significant investments in scouting, signing amateur players, our player development system and our baseball facilities."

 

[A-Train to 35th]

12 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Every day I find out new stuff that boggles my mind about the whole front office like the difference between Sheets home and rode splits. Sheets shouldn't even be playing on the road. Where's analytics with this simple info. Who's getting important info to the people who could use it ? So here's another one.

 Brandon Drury, with his 20 HR, which the Sox surely could've used is traded for an 18 yo, DR, SS in the ACL that the Padres paid $1.8M for 2 or 3 years ago.

I don't know maybe he was exactly what the Reds wanted considering the Padres got Drury and no one else did.

However, how could the Sox not beat that ? Did they even look into Drury ? He's a multi-positional guy who would've easily been the Sox best power hitter.

Couldn't some underling  have been looking into what other teams were looking for . Are the Sox understaffed ? There's a lot going on in the off season and during the trade deadline. They'd have to have some idea Drury would be available for at least a month now. How is he overlooked ?

What do you expect with JR and TLR calling all the shots.  Tony to Rick Hahn "Drury, never heard of him, besides we already have a multi-positional guy who's really a starter in Leury"

Sox are in the stone age when it comes to analytics.

Edited August 4, 2022 by A-Train to 35th

[ChiSox59]

3 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Just using the fangraphs ratings, the Sox equivalent would have been giving up someone like Yolbert for him.

Hahn could have snagged one of these platoon lefty hitters, but I'm not sure he was looking for that.
But I can't blame him for being measured for this .500 team.  The debacle over the winter is another story (as are his many other debacles).
A mediocre front office to begin with, and then  LaRussa in the mix, ....we could have a real mess, that replacing only Hahn won't fix.

GreenSox at it again with his awful trade comps. 

[reiks12]

What the Padres have done over the last few years is exactly where I thought the White Sox would be now. Anyone catch the highlights of that game at Petco last night? Place was unbelievable

[caulfield12]

29 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

GreenSox at it again with his awful trade comps. 

In the Sox system, something like Erick Hernandez…can also throw in Adolfo.

But the Reds were apparently prioritizing multi-position infield talent, which leaves Sosa or Rodriguez.  Jury is still out on Ramos sticking at 3B.  Guess Hahn wanted to hold onto all three.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

And he’s really strong against RHP this year, at least by lowered Sox standards.

 

Versus LHP 1.016

 Versus RHP  806

Plus as you told me earlier , he signed with the Reds for $700K this year. So the Padres have to pay him around $300K the rest of the year.  That along with the young SS they gave up seems to be right up the Sox alley. Missing on him is inexcusable . But hey can't pay $300K or trade away an ACL player for a 20 HR  guy who hits RH, plays mostly 3rd and 2nd base and a little OF and 1st base when we have Moncada, Leury and Harrison to play almost every dayand the lineup already filled with a couple of guys with 10+ HR's.

[South Side Hit Men]

The World's Richest White Sox

 

 

 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jack Parkman]

TIFWIW

 

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

When Rick took over as GM, one of his first mistakes was giving Jeff Keppinger a 3 year contract. He lasted one season putting up a .600 OPS.

He obviously didn't  learn. He gave Leury a 3 year contract for around the same money if you factor in inflation.  Luery has a .500 OPS.

It's time for Rick ro go.