Fire Rick Hahn

[SonofaRoache]

10 hours ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

They didn't want to spend money on Harper and Machado because they prioritized re-signing their young championshit core.  Now they can't find anyone who would want them.

This was stupid if true. You ALWAYS sign the MVP and HOF caliber middle of the order lefty bat in his prime. You figure out the rest 8 years down the road and if one of your core players bust, his money funds Harper's last few years. If everyone turned out to be worthy of the money, then you enjoy your multiple championships and use the money from said championships and fame to pay Harper, or trade someone to retool  the farm. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

This was stupid if true. You ALWAYS sign the MVP and HOF caliber middle of the order lefty bat in his prime. You figure out the rest 8 years down the road and if one of your core players bust, his money funds Harper's last few years. If everyone turned out to be worthy of the money, then you enjoy your multiple championships and use the money from said championships and fame to pay Harper, or trade someone to retool  the farm. 

Kenny Williams literally said that on the radio the morning after Machado signed. In the same interview he said the White Sox couldn’t guarantee 2027/2028 to Machado because they had to be prepared to sign their next core and also insisted that their 8/$250 offer with 2 team options was actually worth more than the Padres offer because the team options would pay more money if they were picked up. I believe some of us noted this contrast at the time, it contributed to them being called clowns. (He also said the White Sox don’t do player opt outs).

[South Side Hit Men]

23 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Kenny Williams literally said that on the radio the morning after Machado signed. In the same interview he said the White Sox couldn’t guarantee 2027/2028 to Machado because they had to be prepared to sign their next core and also insisted that their 8/$250 offer with 2 team options was actually worth more than the Padres offer because the team options would pay more money if they were picked up. I believe some of us noted this contrast at the time, it contributed to them being called clowns. (He also said the White Sox don’t do player opt outs).

If they would have signed their core and solid young FAs (27-29), then it would have worked, but Hahn spent the money on a bunch of s%*# they end up DFAing or wishing they never signed if they were ever honest. Hahn also pissed away young cost controlled players for old s%*#, made the team worse with each and every deal.

• $75M Andrew Benintendi 0.3 bWAR Can he hit a home run over 5 years? Perhaps.
• $73M Yasmani Grandal 3.0 bWAR DH masquerading as a catcher.
• $56M Dallas Keuchel 1.0 bWAR Garbage playoffs, clubhouse cancer, DFA'd.
• $40M Lance Lynn 5.8 bWAR Pissed away a valuable cost controlled pitcher. He likes steak, playoff trash.
• $24M Kendall Graveman 1.5 bWAR More money to the bullpen sinkhole while RF and 2B rot in hell.
• $18M Joe Kelly -0.6 bWAR Even more money sunk into the bullpen. He had 2 good weeks.
• $17M A. J. Pollock 0.4 bWAR Hahn flipped s%*# for more expensive s%*#. Took buyout to escape toxicity,
• $17M Leury Garcia -1.0 bWAR Vast overpay for an overplayed backup. DFA'd 1/3 into the contract.
• $12M Edwin Encarnacion -0.3 bWAR Pissed away $12M on a team full of DHs. Absolute garbage.
• $12M Mike Clevinger 0.7 bWAR Child Abuse, Domestic Violence. Team had best stretch with him on IL.
• $9M Jake Diekman -1.3 bWAR Complete and utter garbage. DFA'd.
• $8M Adam Eaton 0.0 bWAR Toxic garbage, wouldn't rehab, DFA'd.
• $6M Craig Kimbrel 0.0 bWAR Hahn and Kenny's best idea. Picked up option turned this to more s%*#.

Totals: $367M for 9.5 bWAR + 

• 2/3 of seasons left for Clevinger, Grandal, Lynn, Kelly.
• 1 2/3 Seasons left for Graveman.
• 4 2/3 Seasons left for Benintendi.

 

[The Kids Can Play]

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

If they would have signed their core and solid young FAs (27-29), then it would have worked, but Hahn spent the money on a bunch of s%*# they end up DFAing or wishing they never signed if they were ever honest. Hahn also pissed away young cost controlled players for old s%*#, made the team worse with each and every deal.

• $75M Andrew Benintendi 0.3 bWAR Can he hit a home run over 5 years? Perhaps.
• $73M Yasmani Grandal 3.0 bWAR DH masquerading as a catcher.
• $56M Dallas Keuchel 1.0 bWAR Garbage playoffs, clubhouse cancer, DFA'd.
• $40M Lance Lynn 5.8 bWAR Pissed away a valuable cost controlled pitcher. He likes steak, playoff trash.
• $24M Kendall Graveman 1.5 bWAR More money to the bullpen sinkhole while RF and 2B rot in hell.
• $18M Joe Kelly -0.6 bWAR Even more money sunk into the bullpen. He had 2 good weeks.
• $17M A. J. Pollock 0.4 bWAR Hahn flipped s%*# for more expensive s%*#. Took buyout to escape toxicity,
• $17M Leury Garcia -1.0 bWAR Vast overpay for an overplayed backup. DFA'd 1/3 into the contract.
• $12M Edwin Encarnacion -0.3 bWAR Pissed away $12M on a team full of DHs. Absolute garbage.
• $12M Mike Clevinger 0.7 bWAR Child Abuse, Domestic Violence. Team had best stretch with him on IL.
• $9M Jake Diekman -1.3 bWAR Complete and utter garbage. DFA'd.
• $8M Adam Eaton 0.0 bWAR Toxic garbage, wouldn't rehab, DFA'd.
• $6M Craig Kimbrel 0.0 bWAR Hahn and Kenny's best idea. Picked up option turned this to more s%*#.

Totals: $367M for 9.5 bWAR + 

• 2/3 of seasons left for Clevinger, Grandal, Lynn, Kelly.
• 1 2/3 Seasons left for Graveman.
• 4 2/3 Seasons left for Benintendi.

 

Too bad the Sox aren't owned by someone like Mark Cuban who would care this much and get pissed off. 

At this point I'm not even convinced Jerry Reinsdorf even watches every game. He lives in Arizona which is two hours difference from Chicago time, so yeah he probably falls sleep or just gets bored and turns it off. 

[GreenSox]

Not signing Harper or Machado, while unfortunate,  isn't why this derailed. This derailed because the team lacked depth from the start, and then never evolved beyond the initial core.  Teams need a steady infusion of young players to create depth and to keep everyone sharp. It's just one of many nuances that this FO can't grasp, can't accomplish or both.
 

[Dick Allen]

58 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Not signing Harper or Machado, while unfortunate,  isn't why this derailed. This derailed because the team lacked depth from the start, and then never evolved beyond the initial core.  Teams need a steady infusion of young players to create depth and to keep everyone sharp. It's just one of many nuances that this FO can't grasp, can't accomplish or both.
 

They have hitters that don't see a pitch they don't want to swing at. They have pitchers who walk and hit too many people and mess around so much their pitch count gets ridiculous, and they don't play good defense. Other than that, they are pretty good. I have no idea why this FO who have seen the same things over and over again, don't want to at least think maybe this isnt a way to build a team that wins all the time.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Too bad the Sox aren't owned by someone like Mark Cuban who would care this much and get pissed off. 

At this point I'm not even convinced Jerry Reinsdorf even watches every game. He lives in Arizona which is two hours difference from Chicago time, so yeah he probably falls sleep or just gets bored and turns it off. 

Actually he is at most of the games up in the owners box. 

[joejoesox]

Just looked at the schedule coming up, these guys will need to pull a horse shoe out of their asses to keep from getting buried. 

[GreenSox]

51 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They have hitters that don't see a pitch they don't want to swing at. They have pitchers who walk and hit too many people and mess around so much their pitch count gets ridiculous, and they don't play good defense. 

They're still at naught-era analytics:  Ks don't matter for hitters; Ks are all that matter for pitchers (while modern front offices are looking for weak contact).

[Dick Allen]

32 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

They're still at naught-era analytics:  Ks don't matter for hitters; Ks are all that matter for pitchers (while modern front offices are looking for weak contact).

That was one of my biggest questions when analytics really started taking over. Eminor was on them early and there was another poster that used to tag team with him on it. They knew their stuff, no question, but I never understood the logic how K's meant nothing to a hitter, just another out was the reasoning, when putting the ball in play could lead to hits and errors and runs, And the just another out meant the world to a pitcher. That part never made any sense to me, just like protection in a line up. The problem with protection is it is almost impossible to measure, yet talk to any pitcher or coach or manager, some players are pitched differently depending who is on deck. In fact, Ed Hermann once led the AL in intentional walks. He hit 8th, in front of the pitcher. According to sabermatricians, protection doesn't matter.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Dick Allen

[FloydBannister1983]

57 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

Just looked at the schedule coming up, these guys will need to pull a horse shoe out of their asses to keep from getting buried. 

I have a feeling we may see some trades (Giolito, Lynn, etc.) happen in June.  Then they will be buried.

 

Hawks and Bears won the first picks. Maybe the Sox and Bulls will join them.

[Y2Jimmy0]

16 hours ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

They didn't want to spend money on Harper and Machado because they prioritized re-signing their young championshit core.  Now they can't find anyone who would want them.

 

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Kenny Williams literally said that on the radio the morning after Machado signed. In the same interview he said the White Sox couldn’t guarantee 2027/2028 to Machado because they had to be prepared to sign their next core and also insisted that their 8/$250 offer with 2 team options was actually worth more than the Padres offer because the team options would pay more money if they were picked up. I believe some of us noted this contrast at the time, it contributed to them being called clowns. (He also said the White Sox don’t do player opt outs).

Ken Williams and Rick Hahn would’ve loved to sign Harper or Machado. Jerry Reinsdorf doesn’t believe in giving baseball players $300 million. That off-season had nothing to do with Hahn/KW. It would’ve been better if they just targeted actually attainable players instead and stopped wasting all of our time. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 minute ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

I have a feeling we may see some trades (Giolito, Lynn, etc.) happen in June.  Then they will be buried.

 

Hawks and Bears won the first picks. Maybe the Sox and Bulls will join them.

Highly doubt it. Trade activity won’t pick up until after the all star break because of the draft being moved. It’s what front offices are focused on. 

[GreenSox]

48 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He hit 8th, in front of the pitcher. According to sabermatricians, protection doesn't matter.

Yea, it reminds me of the saber notion that there is no such thing as "clutch."  And their logic made sense to me and I basically agree that clutch doesn't really exist.
But then I would ask whether there is such thing as the opposite of clutch  - aka "choke" - and I never got a straight answer.

[Dick Allen]

34 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Highly doubt it. Trade activity won’t pick up until after the all star break because of the draft being moved. It’s what front offices are focused on. 

Do they have any international bonus pool money left? JR can sell players for that again.

[Y2Jimmy0]

30 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Do they have any international bonus pool money left? JR can sell players for that again.

Unfortunately, yes. 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Actually he is at most of the games up in the owners box. 

That would be a sight to see. LoL

[South Side Hit Men]

Bullshit is what Hahn says you are. WAR is your actual record.

Benchmark for Position Players and Starting Pitchers:

• Levels beyond all White Sox Players (6+ MVP, 5-6 Superstar, 4-5 All Star)
• 3-4 Good Player
• 2-3 Solid Player
• 1-2 Role Player
• 0-1 Scrub

Chicago White Sox bWAR Per Season (2014-2023) 

(2023 (0.34) and 2020 (0.37) bWAR prorated for all unless noted)

Position Players

• Good Players
  • 3.80 Jose Abreu - 1,270 Games over 8.37 seasons 
  • 3.54 Luis Robert Junior - 275 Games over 2.71 seasons
• Solid Player
  • 2.81 Tim Anderson - 809 Games over 6.71 seasons (2016 callup 0.67 season)
  • 2.77 Yoan Moncada - 661 Games over 5.05 seasons (2017 callup 0.34 season)
• Role Players
  • 1.56 Eloy Jimenez - 343 Games over 3.71 seasons
  • 1.11 Yasmani Grandal - 283 Games over 2.71 seasons
  • 1.11 Jake Burger -- 104 Games over 0.9 seasons (Prorated 2021 = 0.1, 2022 = 0.5, 2023 0.3)
• Scrub
  • 0.88 Andrew Benintendi - 52 Games over 0.34 Seasons
  • 0.12 Gavin Sheets - 219 Games over 1.68 seasons (2021 prorated 0.34)
  • 0.09 Andrew Vaughn - 315 Games over 2.34 seasons

Starting Pitchers

• Solid Pitcher
  • 2.90 Dylan Cease - 102 Starts over 3.21 seasons (2019 prorated 0.50)
  • 2.53 Lucas Giolito - 156 Starts over 4.91 seasons (2017 prorated 0.20)
  • 2.44 Lance Lynn - 60 Starts over 2.34 seasons
• Role Pitcher
  • 1.82 Michael Kopech - 44 Starts. 40 Relief Appearances over 2.47 seasons (2018 prorated 0.12, 0.0 seasons counted for 2019 & 2020)
• Scrub
  • 0.42 Dallas Keuchel - 49 Starts over 2.37 seasons.

Edited May 30, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[Bob Sacamano]

Bump

[GreenSox]

It's Twitter's fault!

[Highland]

On 5/30/2023 at 11:13 AM, Lip Man 1 said:

Actually he is at most of the games up in the owners box. 

That's even worse. He sits there and watches this nonsense and does nothing. Has done nothing for a long time. If I was the owner, I couldn't watch this stuff for this long. He needs to do something dramatic that will help the team in the short and long run. But I am not waiting for anything. This stuff has gone on for the most part since the end of 2008. If he can sit there year after year and decade after decade doing nothing, there is no reason for any real optimism.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Highland said:

That's even worse. He sits there and watches this nonsense and does nothing. Has done nothing for a long time. If I was the owner, I couldn't watch this stuff for this long. He needs to do something dramatic that will help the team in the short and long run. But I am not waiting for anything. This stuff has gone on for the most part since the end of 2008. If he can sit there year after year and decade after decade doing nothing, there is no reason for any real optimism.

Jerry doesn't give a rats ass about on field performance, beyond any substantial impact it may have on what he actually watches like a Hawk, his financial statements.

How much tax revenue and rent have governments in need paid him for intentionally staying under 1.9M attendance?

How much revenue is he getting from the league and common fund?

How much revenue is he getting that are not considered in negotiations with the players union?

How can he screw over his fellow minority owners, in terms of underpaying them for their ownership shares after they die or choose to sell for other reasons?

This is what Jerry cares about. The Sox losing 100 games yet again under Hahn? As long as he's banking budgeted profit, it's less consequential then whether it is 68F or 69F outside,

[reiks12]

On 5/30/2023 at 9:35 AM, South Side Hit Men said:

If they would have signed their core and solid young FAs (27-29), then it would have worked, but Hahn spent the money on a bunch of s%*# they end up DFAing or wishing they never signed if they were ever honest. Hahn also pissed away young cost controlled players for old s%*#, made the team worse with each and every deal.

• $75M Andrew Benintendi 0.3 bWAR Can he hit a home run over 5 years? Perhaps.
• $73M Yasmani Grandal 3.0 bWAR DH masquerading as a catcher.
• $56M Dallas Keuchel 1.0 bWAR Garbage playoffs, clubhouse cancer, DFA'd.
• $40M Lance Lynn 5.8 bWAR Pissed away a valuable cost controlled pitcher. He likes steak, playoff trash.
• $24M Kendall Graveman 1.5 bWAR More money to the bullpen sinkhole while RF and 2B rot in hell.
• $18M Joe Kelly -0.6 bWAR Even more money sunk into the bullpen. He had 2 good weeks.
• $17M A. J. Pollock 0.4 bWAR Hahn flipped s%*# for more expensive s%*#. Took buyout to escape toxicity,
• $17M Leury Garcia -1.0 bWAR Vast overpay for an overplayed backup. DFA'd 1/3 into the contract.
• $12M Edwin Encarnacion -0.3 bWAR Pissed away $12M on a team full of DHs. Absolute garbage.
• $12M Mike Clevinger 0.7 bWAR Child Abuse, Domestic Violence. Team had best stretch with him on IL.
• $9M Jake Diekman -1.3 bWAR Complete and utter garbage. DFA'd.
• $8M Adam Eaton 0.0 bWAR Toxic garbage, wouldn't rehab, DFA'd.
• $6M Craig Kimbrel 0.0 bWAR Hahn and Kenny's best idea. Picked up option turned this to more s%*#.

Totals: $367M for 9.5 bWAR + 

• 2/3 of seasons left for Clevinger, Grandal, Lynn, Kelly.
• 1 2/3 Seasons left for Graveman.
• 4 2/3 Seasons left for Benintendi.

 

now do his draft picks. What is this clown good for? HOW IS HE STILL EMPLOYED

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Jerry doesn't give a rats ass about on field performance, beyond any substantial impact it may have on what he actually watches like a Hawk, his financial statements.

How much tax revenue and rent have governments in need paid him for intentionally staying under 1.9M attendance?

How much revenue is he getting from the league and common fund?

How much revenue is he getting that are not considered in negotiations with the players union?

How can he screw over his fellow minority owners, in terms of underpaying them for their ownership shares after they die or choose to sell for other reasons?

This is what Jerry cares about. The Sox losing 100 games yet again under Hahn? As long as he's banking budgeted profit, it's less consequential then whether it is 68F or 69F outside,

And remember just a few years ago EVERY team in MLB got a check for I believe 52 million dollars when baseball sold off BAM Tech to a private company.

The domestic and international revenue streams are staggering right now for MLB.  

[South Side Hit Men]

The Sox have had many bad seasons over the years, but only four teams 12 + games under .500 entering June.

• 2023 23-35
• 2018 16-37 (62-100)
• 1989 18-33 (69-92)
• 1948 9-26 (51-101-2)

Please fire Rick Hahn to kick off June, and give White Sox fans hope for the future.