Fire Rick Hahn

[tray]

Grifol should go after the All Star break. Once the season ends JR should probably make larger changes to the baseball side of management, starting with Hahn. Right now Rick looks like a deer caught in the headlights. I actually feel sorry for him because a lot of the close losses this season have been a result of bad luck, bad moves, and bad decisions by Grifol and Katz plus unexpected under-performance by a lot of players. And then there is this: Hindsight is always 20/20. We call that Monday morni ng quarterbacking in the football world.

[Dick Allen]

Phil Jackson called it the Last Dance at Grant Park celebrating the Bulls 6th championship. People panicked but held out hope Phil was mistaken and they would give it another go until someone showed they could beat them. It wasn't to be. Phil was right, it was over.

Who knew on the October night back in 2021 when Leury Garcia hit one over the CF wall to lead the White Sox to victory, avoiding a first round sweep, that it was the White Sox last dance.

Please fire these dopes today. 

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, tray said:

Grifol should go after the All Star break. Once the season ends JR should probably make larger changes to the baseball side of management, starting with Hahn. Right now Rick looks like a deer caught in the headlights. I actually feel sorry for him because a lot of the close losses this season have been a result of bad luck, bad moves, and bad decisions by Grifol and Katz plus unexpected under-performance by a lot of players. And then there is this: Hindsight is always 20/20. We call that Monday morni ng quarterbacking in the football world.

How could Rick Hahn he have possibly dealt with bad moves and bad decisions by Grifol and Katz? They should clearly deal with the person making those bad moves and who hired Grifol and Katz, they're clearly a problem.

[Kyyle23]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

How could Rick Hahn he have possibly dealt with bad moves and bad decisions by Grifol and Katz? They should clearly deal with the person making those bad moves and who hired Grifol and Katz, they're clearly a problem.

It’s weird, I only hope Rick can find the person responsible for all of this!

(meme needed?  Probs not)

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Hahn is going nowhere. The dreadful thing is that this thread will still be active 4 years from now. Hoping for change within the White Sox organization is like beating your head against the wall. 

If Hahn is still the GM in 4 years, means one of two things. Hahn's demented boss Jerry is still alive and the Hahn mediocrity is worse than ever. If that is the case, the Sox home game attendance will challenge the all-time Sox lowest attendance records. Additionally many loyal die-hard Sox fans like myself will have probably have dropped the team and taken a leave of absence, until the new ownership takes over.

In 4 years if Hahn is still here, I will not be one of those fans knocking their head against the wall...as I won't be following the team. I'll find a new team to follow until the new owner takes over.

. 

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

If Hahn is still the GM in 4 years, means one of two things. Hahn's demented boss Jerry is still alive and the Hahn mediocrity is worse than ever. If that is the case, the Sox home game attendance will challenge the all-time Sox lowest attendance records. Additionally many loyal die-hard Sox fans like myself will have probably have dropped the team and taken a leave of absence, until the new ownership takes over.

In 4 years if Hahn is still here, I will not be one of those fans knocking their head against the wall...as I won't be following the team. I'll find a new team to follow until the new owner takes over.

. 

The Sox had one of the biggest attendance drops year to year from last year to this year. Next year will be worse.  A lot of people were hanging on thinking it was all LaRussa's fault. They will go. JR will trim payroll even more. 

[JoeC]

It's simple.

Reinsdorf's job as an owner is to hire the right people, give them the resources to succeed, and give them the authority to make decisions on how to succeed.

He doesn't hire the right people, handcuffs them on resources (both big league and minor league resources), and undermines their authority by doing stupid s%*# like hiring TLR behind Hahn's back.

[bmags]

*Rick hahn in the bathroom practicing his resignation speech when wife tries to get in locked door*

"What are you doing?!"

"Umm Drugs" - Rick Hahn

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, bmags said:

*Rick hahn in the bathroom practicing his resignation speech when wife tries to get in locked door*

"What are you doing?!"

"Umm Drugs" - Rick Hahn

???

[Dick Allen]

I read Everett Teaford, White Sox minor league pitching coordinator left to coach at Auburn. I'm not thinking he was the problem.

[Tony]

3 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Lightning in a bottle is always possible I guess, but it’s hard for me to look at the lack of commitment to the continued and future health of this organization and think that some guy could actually work with this successfully

We only know so much, but seemingly, we can piece together a few things.

- Coming off the World Series in 2005, the Sox had the 4th highest payroll in 2006, behind the Yanks, Red Sox and Angels

- In 2022, the Sox came in with the 7th highest payroll, at 203,205,326..according to Spotrac. 

The point is, Jerry will spend in the upper echelon when the team is in a good spot and there is buzz around the team. 

Now, we also know what he won't do. He seemingly won't go over 5 years with a pitcher, and signing a 300+ million dollar player seems unlikely. We also don't know what he is comfortable with/willing to spend on internals like scouting and analytics, but I tend to believe he would mostly leave that to the President/GM of Baseball, assigning them an overall budget and determining where that money needs to go. 

Those are absolutely hurdles that any GM would need to leap, but there are plenty of "successful" GM's that have those same limitations placed on them every year, often times much worse. The Twins, Indians, Rays, Brewers, etc all have way harsher payroll restrictions, yet have been wildly more successful than the Sox over the last decade+ 

My point is building a successful, consistent and good baseball team is possible under the "limitations" Jerry sets. Certainly harder than someone like the Dodgers, Mets, Red Sox, Yankees...but I believe it absolutely could be done. Rick is very bad at his job, and Jerry continues to let blind loyalty destroy his legacy. Where we sit today, I no doubt hold Jerry/Kenny/Rick all responsible, where the blame goes doesn't really matter at this point because we suffer no matter what. I'm just saying I believe from a pure baseball standpoint, Rick has hurt this team more than anyone else. 

[thedoctor]

54 minutes ago, Tony said:

We only know so much, but seemingly, we can piece together a few things.

- Coming off the World Series in 2005, the Sox had the 4th highest payroll in 2006, behind the Yanks, Red Sox and Angels

- In 2022, the Sox came in with the 7th highest payroll, at 203,205,326..according to Spotrac. 

The point is, Jerry will spend in the upper echelon when the team is in a good spot and there is buzz around the team. 

Now, we also know what he won't do. He seemingly won't go over 5 years with a pitcher, and signing a 300+ million dollar player seems unlikely. We also don't know what he is comfortable with/willing to spend on internals like scouting and analytics, but I tend to believe he would mostly leave that to the President/GM of Baseball, assigning them an overall budget and determining where that money needs to go. 

Those are absolutely hurdles that any GM would need to leap, but there are plenty of "successful" GM's that have those same limitations placed on them every year, often times much worse. The Twins, Indians, Rays, Brewers, etc all have way harsher payroll restrictions, yet have been wildly more successful than the Sox over the last decade+ 

My point is building a successful, consistent and good baseball team is possible under the "limitations" Jerry sets. Certainly harder than someone like the Dodgers, Mets, Red Sox, Yankees...but I believe it absolutely could be done. Rick is very bad at his job, and Jerry continues to let blind loyalty destroy his legacy. Where we sit today, I no doubt hold Jerry/Kenny/Rick all responsible, where the blame goes doesn't really matter at this point because we suffer no matter what. I'm just saying I believe from a pure baseball standpoint, Rick has hurt this team more than anyone else. 

given the budget parameters that hahn would know better than anyone, the money spent on and attention paid to bullpen pieces is straight-up malpractice. all the while just letting two positions essentially get filled for multiple seasons by below league average has-beens or never will bes.

he has two examples in his bullpen this year why you should never, ever do that. and he did it multiple seasons. ffs

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

The Sox had one of the biggest attendance drops year to year from last year to this year. Next year will be worse.  A lot of people were hanging on thinking it was all LaRussa's fault. They will go. JR will trim payroll even more. 

Here are the Sox attendance figures going back to 1970.

I know this probably won't happen, but I wish while Jerry is still alive and Hahn still the GM, the attendance could get down to the the levels of 1970 or 1975. 

Chicago White Attendance   YEAR BALLPARK GM AVG SEASON   1970 Comiskey Park 6,115 495,355   1971 Comiskey Park 10,295 833,891   1972 Comiskey Park 15,290 1,177,318   1973 Comiskey Park 16,081 1,302,527   1974 Comiskey Park 14,105 1,149,596   1975 Comiskey Park 9,327 750,802   1976 Comiskey Park 11,366 914,945   1977 Comiskey Park 20,458 1,657,135   1978 Comiskey Park 18,523 1,491,100   1979 Comiskey Park 16,009 1,280,702   1980 Comiskey Park 14,819 1,200,365   1981 Comiskey Park 17,861 946,651   1982 Comiskey Park 19,355 1,567,787   1983 Comiskey Park 26,331 2,132,821   1984 Comiskey Park 26,383 2,136,988   1985 Comiskey Park 20,489 1,669,888   1986 Comiskey Park 17,584 1,424,313   1987 Comiskey Park 14,914 1,208,060   1988 Comiskey Park 13,860 1,115,749   1989 Comiskey Park 12,989 1,045,651   1990 Comiskey Park 24,720 2,002,357   1991 Comiskey Park (II) 36,224 2,934,154   1992 Comiskey Park (II) 33,101 2,681,156   1993 Comiskey Park (II) 31,865 2,581,091   1994 Comiskey Park (II) 30,042 1,697,398   1995 Comiskey Park (II) 22,204 1,609,773   1996 Comiskey Park (II) 20,569 1,676,403   1997 Comiskey Park (II) 23,165 1,864,782   1998 Comiskey Park (II) 17,175 1,391,146   1999 Comiskey Park (II) 16,656 1,349,151   2000 Comiskey Park (II) 24,047 1,947,799   2001 Comiskey Park (II) 22,077 1,766,172   2002 Comiskey Park (II) 20,701 1,676,804   2003 U.S. Cellular Field 23,944 1,939,524   2004 U.S. Cellular Field 24,437 1,930,537   2005 U.S. Cellular Field 28,923 2,342,834   2006 U.S. Cellular Field 36,511 2,957,414   2007 U.S. Cellular Field 33,140 2,684,395   2008 U.S. Cellular Field 30,877 2,501,103   2009 U.S. Cellular Field 28,199 2,284,164   2010 U.S. Cellular Field 27,091 2,194,378   2011 U.S. Cellular Field 24,705 2,001,117   2012 U.S. Cellular Field 24,271 1,965,955   2013 U.S. Cellular Field 21,832 1,768,413   2014 U.S. Cellular Field 20,381 1,650,821   2015 U.S. Cellular Field 21,677 1,755,810   2016 U.S. Cellular Field 21,559 1,746,293   2017 Guaranteed Rate Field 20,626 1,629,470   2018 Guaranteed Rate Field 20,110 1,608,817   2019 Guaranteed Rate Field 20,622 1,649,775   2020 Guaranteed Rate Field COVID COVID   2021 Guaranteed Rate Field 19,708 1,596,385   2022 Guaranteed Rate Field 24,807 2,009,359   2023 Guaranteed Rate Field 20,415 837,051

 

[FloydBannister1983]

3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Here are the Sox attendance figures going back to 1970.

I know this probably won't happen, but I wish while Jerry is still alive and Hahn still the GM, the attendance could get down to the the levels of 1970 or 1975. 

Chicago White Attendance   YEAR BALLPARK GM AVG SEASON   1970 Comiskey Park 6,115 495,355   1971 Comiskey Park 10,295 833,891   1972 Comiskey Park 15,290 1,177,318   1973 Comiskey Park 16,081 1,302,527   1974 Comiskey Park 14,105 1,149,596   1975 Comiskey Park 9,327 750,802   1976 Comiskey Park 11,366 914,945   1977 Comiskey Park 20,458 1,657,135   1978 Comiskey Park 18,523 1,491,100   1979 Comiskey Park 16,009 1,280,702   1980 Comiskey Park 14,819 1,200,365   1981 Comiskey Park 17,861 946,651   1982 Comiskey Park 19,355 1,567,787   1983 Comiskey Park 26,331 2,132,821   1984 Comiskey Park 26,383 2,136,988   1985 Comiskey Park 20,489 1,669,888   1986 Comiskey Park 17,584 1,424,313   1987 Comiskey Park 14,914 1,208,060   1988 Comiskey Park 13,860 1,115,749   1989 Comiskey Park 12,989 1,045,651   1990 Comiskey Park 24,720 2,002,357   1991 Comiskey Park (II) 36,224 2,934,154   1992 Comiskey Park (II) 33,101 2,681,156   1993 Comiskey Park (II) 31,865 2,581,091   1994 Comiskey Park (II) 30,042 1,697,398   1995 Comiskey Park (II) 22,204 1,609,773   1996 Comiskey Park (II) 20,569 1,676,403   1997 Comiskey Park (II) 23,165 1,864,782   1998 Comiskey Park (II) 17,175 1,391,146   1999 Comiskey Park (II) 16,656 1,349,151   2000 Comiskey Park (II) 24,047 1,947,799   2001 Comiskey Park (II) 22,077 1,766,172   2002 Comiskey Park (II) 20,701 1,676,804   2003 U.S. Cellular Field 23,944 1,939,524   2004 U.S. Cellular Field 24,437 1,930,537   2005 U.S. Cellular Field 28,923 2,342,834   2006 U.S. Cellular Field 36,511 2,957,414   2007 U.S. Cellular Field 33,140 2,684,395   2008 U.S. Cellular Field 30,877 2,501,103   2009 U.S. Cellular Field 28,199 2,284,164   2010 U.S. Cellular Field 27,091 2,194,378   2011 U.S. Cellular Field 24,705 2,001,117   2012 U.S. Cellular Field 24,271 1,965,955   2013 U.S. Cellular Field 21,832 1,768,413   2014 U.S. Cellular Field 20,381 1,650,821   2015 U.S. Cellular Field 21,677 1,755,810   2016 U.S. Cellular Field 21,559 1,746,293   2017 Guaranteed Rate Field 20,626 1,629,470   2018 Guaranteed Rate Field 20,110 1,608,817   2019 Guaranteed Rate Field 20,622 1,649,775   2020 Guaranteed Rate Field COVID COVID   2021 Guaranteed Rate Field 19,708 1,596,385   2022 Guaranteed Rate Field 24,807 2,009,359   2023 Guaranteed Rate Field 20,415 837,051

 

It seems that their modern day floor is about 1.6 million, which they are pretty close to (slightly above) right now.  I don’t think they drop off more next year.  I can’t see 1.4 or lower which would be a 25 year low.  It would be laughably fun to see.

[Kyyle23]

Hey look at the clear bump in attendance when they are good, the next season carries over and the fans buy in, then mass exodus when the same bullshit happens

every time attendance is blamed for lack of moves or money, it should be pointed out that the Sox fans are there when they know you have done it right 

[Lip Man 1]

22 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Hey look at the clear bump in attendance when they are good, the next season carries over and the fans buy in, then mass exodus when the same bullshit happens

every time attendance is blamed for lack of moves or money, it should be pointed out that the Sox fans are there when they know you have done it right 

Very true. The issue is the Sox can not consistently "win" and I use that term loosely. Especially since 2007 started, I mean only five winning seasons.

How do you generate momentum with that type of track record? 

[Jerksticks]

2 hours ago, JoeC said:

It's simple.

Reinsdorf's job as an owner is to hire the right people, give them the resources to succeed, and give them the authority to make decisions on how to succeed.

He doesn't hire the right people, handcuffs them on resources (both big league and minor league resources), and undermines their authority by doing stupid s%*# like hiring TLR behind Hahn's back.

Now that I’ve had time to reflect I definitely think Rick must have called out JR about handcuffing him with big FAs and then JR basically spanked him and told him, “Guess what, TLR is now your manager.”

I don’t know why but I really can’t shake the feeling it was done as an insult to Rick.  
 

Why he didn’t quit I can’t figure. 

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

It seems that their modern day floor is about 1.6 million, which they are pretty close to (slightly above) right now.  I don’t think they drop off more next year.  I can’t see 1.4 or lower which would be a 25 year low.  It would be laughably fun to see.

Normally I would agree with you, but this has a different feel. I dropped out after last season.  I know a few who gave it one more shot. During the rebuild and most of the time they were mired in mediocrity,  they treated their season ticketholders like royalty. No more. Now they think they are doing you the favor by selling you tickets to watch their AAA product. I think 1.3 to 1.4 is not only possible but probable unless they make some really popular changes. No one has any trust in this front office. Even their boy Bob is taking his shots saying it was the shortest contention window of all time.

[NCsoxfan]

3 hours ago, tray said:

Grifol should go after the All Star break. Once the season ends JR should probably make larger changes to the baseball side of management, starting with Hahn. Right now Rick looks like a deer caught in the headlights. I actually feel sorry for him because a lot of the close losses this season have been a result of bad luck, bad moves, and bad decisions by Grifol and Katz plus unexpected under-performance by a lot of players. And then there is this: Hindsight is always 20/20. We call that Monday morni ng quarterbacking in the football world.

How can you feel bad for him? He’s constructed a poor roster that’s clearly nowhere close to competing for a championship. Luck has nothing to do with it. He’s out classed in every single way (draft, free agent signings, etc) by his peers. 

[NCsoxfan]

21 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Now that I’ve had time to reflect I definitely think Rick must have called out JR about handcuffing him with big FAs and then JR basically spanked him and told him, “Guess what, TLR is now your manager.”

I don’t know why but I really can’t shake the feeling it was done as an insult to Rick.  
 

Why he didn’t quit I can’t figure. 

TLR didn’t construct a flawed roster.

[caulfield12]

Maybe Rick Hahn is NOT real???

If that was really the case...at least we could be mired in mediocrity.

Maybe for NotRickHahn's next trick we can plug all the White Sox trade options into ChatGPT and come up with a better "retooling" plan for 2024...

 

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

TLR didn’t construct a flawed roster.

 

[Jerksticks]

2 hours ago, NCsoxfan said:

TLR didn’t construct a flawed

The TLR experience destroyed all the hope, love and interest I had in this baseball team since about 1997.  
 

im no longer a diehard.  Rick Hahn being a terrible GM didn’t do that. 

[NCsoxfan]

4 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

The TLR experience destroyed all the hope, love and interest I had in this baseball team since about 1997.  
 

im no longer a diehard.  Rick Hahn being a terrible GM didn’t do that. 

Hahn = boiling frog syndrome 

[caulfield12]

23 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Hahn = boiling frog syndrome 

No more managers left to blame when he chose Renteria and Grifol...was part of the brain trust that forced Ventura into providing cover for the front office after Ozzie left as well.