How I'd fix this

[CentralChamps21]

Trade for: Ian Happ from Cubs, Kyle Schwarber from Phillies, Andrew Chafin from Tigers, Jose Iglesias from Rockies

Give up any/all of the following: Eloy Jimenez, AJ Pollock+cash, Joe Kelly+cash, Leury Garcia+cash (DFA if nobody will take him), Jake Burger, Gavin Sheets, Garrett Crochet, Jimmy Lambert, Jose Ruiz, Reese McGuire, Romy Gonzalez, Wes Kath, Jose Rodriguez, Luis Mieses, Sean Burke.

Is there a way to make that work?

[southsider2k5]

1. Fire Tony LaRussa 

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

1. Fire Tony LaRussa 

Yeah that too.

[MeanJoeCrede]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

1. Fire Tony LaRussa 

Let's start with this.

[iWiN4PreP]

Why would the phils trade Schwarber?

 

Trading for Ian Happ is definitely an interesting move - it should take a decent haul to get him tho, but assuming he's been playing 2b and RF/LF that's a huge get!

 

But yeah, as others have stated, no moves matter unless you fire La Russa and probably the hitting coach IMO.

[CentralChamps21]

7 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Why would the phils trade Schwarber?

 

Trading for Ian Happ is definitely an interesting move - it should take a decent haul to get him tho, but assuming he's been playing 2b and RF/LF that's a huge get!

 

But yeah, as others have stated, no moves matter unless you fire La Russa and probably the hitting coach IMO.

I guess I didn't realize their record was as good as it is. Thought they might be sellers.

[GreenSox]

4 top 10 prospects plus other young players for Schwarber's homers and a pile of mediocrity.  This looks like a couple of  of Hahn's desperation trades. 

That the farm is really improving is the bright spot this season and should give hope for a continued window (unless they give it away.

Edited July 24, 2022 by GreenSox

[ChiSox59]

41 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

4 top 10 prospects plus other young players for Schwarber's homers and a pile of mediocrity.  This looks like a couple of  of Hahn's desperation trades. 

That the farm is really improving is the bright spot this season and should give hope for a continued window (unless they give it away.

Outside of the top few players the farm is pretty awful. 

[Paulie4Pres]

Fire Tony.

[South Side Hit Men]

You're going to have to wait for the Jerry Reinsdorf scoreboard tribute video release before any of the necessary steps to "fix this" can occur,

[ron883]

You could have startrd the thread this way:

Trade for: Ian Happ from Cubs, Kyle Schwarber from Phillies, Andrew Chafin from Tigers, Jose Iglesias from Rockies

Give up any/all of the following: a bunch of ****ing trash 

Edited July 24, 2022 by ron883

[hankchifan]

7 hours ago, GreenSox said:

4 top 10 prospects plus other young players for Schwarber's homers and a pile of mediocrity.  This looks like a couple of  of Hahn's desperation trades. 

That the farm is really improving is the bright spot this season and should give hope for a continued window (unless they give it away.

We could have had Joc Pederson and his LH big homer bat for $6M like the Giants did, but we end up with Pollock instead and no LH outfielder.  We also didn’t sign Rodon our only left handed starter and gave big money to Lynn another aging RH pitcher.

Edited July 24, 2022 by hankchifan
Grammar

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

1. Fire Tony LaRussa 

Would make people happy but the team would stay the same. The same oafs in the OF, the same relief pitchers the same overly RH hittering roster that can't hit RHP and then it's on whoever else is on the field but we all know where the real blame lies. Start with JR and work your way down.

[he gone.]

Going to give this one some actual thought... 

Here's the easiest fixes, then to more complex/ to ripping it off entirely. 

Despite last years success I look at this team I think to myself it doesn't fit the mold to win a Championship with Tony at the helm with how he manages. So the question then becomes, do you can Tony, or re-tool to fit his needs? I'd be most in favor of starting with a mix-up of coaching staff. 

The Firing Squad Route:

Probably the least realistic. doesn't JR have a long track record of barely ever firing in-season? I know it's happened a few times, but don't think it happens very often, nor to one of his cronies. So TLR is here to stay in 2022. I personally think he transitions to the payroll elsewhere for 2023 ... in classic Sox mode, fail upwards. So if were firing now, it's the hitting coach. Menechino has to go as do the base coaches. It's not a huge thing, but we need to show urgency and those are bottom guys on the totem pole. Also heres the stats for team walks ...

22	Cleveland	2.89	2.00	3.00	3.09	2.72	2.80
23	Boston	2.88	1.67	3.00	2.50	3.22	3.17
24	Texas	2.84	2.67	3.00	3.04	2.64	2.67
25	Baltimore	2.79	3.67	2.00	3.00	2.60	2.78
26	Cincinnati	2.79	3.00	3.00	3.08	2.47	3.41
27	Miami	2.74	1.00	0.00	2.76	2.72	2.78
28	Oakland	2.49	4.33	4.00	2.70	2.29	3.36
29	Detroit	2.42	2.33	1.00	2.67	2.15	3.02
30	Chi Sox	2.41	2.67	1.00	2.63	2.19	3.60

There's no way the Sox should be in last in the majors with the amount of all-star caliber guys we have. Moncada and Yaz healthy can go a long way here, but overall this is awful. Assuming we shuffle TLR after this season I'd unfortunately settle for a guy like Naquin even though he doesn't move the needle for me. It allows Sheets to be sent to AAA. Outside of that? if Yaz is truly healthy I'd cut Reese McGuire. You have your lefty bat, and you roll with the hotter bat for the remainder of 2022 in Seby. Neither are likely the answer, but you can't waste a roster spot. So cut him and bring in an arm ala Cueto.. that might just be VV for the time being. Otherwise its a warm body thats similar. We need innings ... and lots of them. We have no chance of any success if we use Cease/Kopech to their max before end of season.  That's it. Then you just hope that pure talent and a hot/healthy streak sneaks you in the playoffs. Cross your fingers and hope for the best knowing you likely lose in the ALDS. This roster is flawed and not a WS contender, but squint and maybe all the stars align for 3-4 weeks. 

The more complex way:

This is actually my preferred method. The FO should know their guys more than me, but overall you can't have a roster consisting of:

Abreu, Eloy, Burger, Vaughn and a version of Yaz that can only catch half the games.

It's not going to win you anything, not this year and not next. To me one of Eloy or Vaughn has to go with whoever sticks around being the fulltime DH and playing field maybe 2 games a week. They are valuable enough names where you should be able to find a great return that makes both teams better. I'd prefer Vaughn sticks around, but obviously you're selling low on Eloy. Burger likely has no home either. You can't keep a bat like that around as backup DH/3B, it's just of no value to the overall team. Allows zero flexibility. He's a classic flip guy for a bullpen arm.  You have to build an OF that makes sense. Pollock is likely back next year and that's not entirely the worst thing. He should be your everyday LF knowing that he's going to be injured and give you about 110 games max meaning your 4th OF is super important. Engel is not that guy either. I was out on him, then loved him, now am back out. If he's your 4th OF, fine, but it's not preferable.  Robert is CF and RF NEEDS TO BE an actual major league talent. Unfortunately if you look around there's not much out there lefty OR righty that fits the bill for us and the other team.

Eloy to me has always been Carlos Lee. And Carlos Lee for Podsednik is kind of where my head is at. On surface it may not be a 1 for 1, but overall it makes the team better. 

The one name I could come up with was Cedric Mullins. Both are controllable for a bit and maybe they like Eloy for his power potential. That said .... they have Hays/Santander on the corners already. Eloy I guess would just slot into DH for Mancini. But trading Mullins doesn't really make them a better team... or give them cheaper/longer control. And the top guys they have coming up are corner OF. So ... ya ... unlikely. Maybe someone like Boston and Jarren Durran? Speedy guy who has talent. If you have an OF of Robert and Duran chasing down balls there's not many touching the ground ... Nick Senzel ... he's about as hurt as Eloy always is too. Same idea though. Former 2nd overall pick. Currently in CF for Reds, but can play 2b too ... like the flexibility. Is there something in Colorado? Maybe Brendan Rodgers and ? for Eloy? He'd be a monster out there. I just don't love their OF guys. Hold my beer on this one ... it's insane to say out loud ... but Mike Trout. I almost think they could do a 1 for 1. And maybe I'm off my rocker, but $35mm for 8 more years? Not Jerry's style. But that franchise is in disaray and if they're not getting Ohtani to extend? Then they're going to sell him ... all of a sudden they're probably seeing what they can get for Trout. I'm not sure anybody can name what a fair price is of taking $270mm contract of an oft-injured 31 year old for 8 more years is though. Nor do I think it's necessarily even a contract I'd risk taking. That said ... Trout in RF, Robert in CF?? wowzas. How about Castellanos? Not a great year out in Philly ... maybe they sell low and can pick him up more along the lines of a Jake Burger + Joe Kelly type of price? Or Graveman ... he's a righty, but I bet you could get him on the low right now. Bryan Reynolds obviously, though again, I don't see the upside necessarily for Pirates. Esteury Ruiz on the Padres? A righty again ... a guy who stole 71 bases in like 60 games this year so far in the minors. batting like .350 ... can play 2b and OF ... Dylan Carlson on the Cards? I don't see the Cards wanting Eloy with Oneil in LF, but maybe as DH? He's a switch hitter, young, controllable. Josh Lowe on the Rays ... probably would have to add a few bullpen type arms on from them. Or maybe add Vidal Brujan as well? 

It's a lot to chew on, but the main idea here goes back to that Carlos Lee trade.. we can't have a bunch of station to station DH types on this team. Abreu is still Abreu so that's not opening up the DH slot, and good ... that's a good problem. But then you need to trade on of the big lugs to get the bases moving, the ball in play. 

[jasonxctf]

AZ Trades: Madison Baumgarner and Cash to the White Sox

CWS Trades: (2) A/AA Prospects

 

Then either the Sox trade Cueto now, to a team in need of pitching for a few months, since he'll be a FA and get some prospects back, or they keep Cueto in the rotation now, move Kopech to the pen for the last few months of the season to bolster that, and make the rotation... (1) Cease (2) Giolito (3) Baumgarner (4) Lynn and (5) Cueto.

Rotation for 2023 would then be set after Cueto exists and Kopech moves back into the rotation again.

[he gone.]

in theory, i don't mind the idea in a vacuum ... however his underlying stats are pretty bad and of late has had some trouble with fly balls/exit velocity.

 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/madison-bumgarner-518516?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

 

I dont think AZ would really be in the driver seat to get ANYTHING in return. I think it would be MadBum, Peralta, and cash for nothing. He's taking home $45-50mm over the next 2.5 years to be Johnny Cueto. The market value for Cueto is probably like $7mm AAV right now. So you're paying $27mm over ask. I'd need every bit of $25mm + Peralta to consider that deal. 

[zisk]

If Colas is still tearing it up in 6 weeks, I'd promote him to the bigs and play him every day. I don't think AAA will

do much for him because of the Japanese league experience and his age. That guy could solve a lot of our problems 

all by himself. It's a tough call but I'd trade Abreu if a contender wanted a bat for the stretch. He's been a rock for

many years, and he will be missed. Vaughn to 1B. Sheets can be launched into the sun along with Pollack, Leury and

Josh. Burger to back up at 1B, 3B and LF. DH the rest of the time. The guy can hit. Eloy in LF. If he's not doing it by june 15th

2023, Send up another rocket. Pray that Yoan continues his little run here because it still could go either way with that guy.

 

 

[T R U]

There is no budget room for the Sox to take on a large commitment. They wouldn't spend meaningful money to fill the holes in 2B and RF so what makes you think that will happen at the trade deadline?

We could use upgrades at 2B and RF (shocking, I know) also bullpen (unreal, spent way too much money here to need more help) maybe another SP to help with workload.

Were most likely looking at Braves like additions from last season, although, it did work out for them.

[GreenSox]

On 7/24/2022 at 2:37 AM, hankchifan said:

We could have had Joc Pederson and his LH big homer bat for $6M like the Giants did, but we end up with Pollock instead and no LH outfielder.  We also didn’t sign Rodon our only left handed starter and gave big money to Lynn another aging RH pitcher.

Hahn spent $18 million on Leury, Harrison and Kelly.  Then he can't afford a real RF or 2B. And then picking Kimbrel over Rodon. Hahn/Haber is just a major anchor to overcome.

[The Kids Can Play]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:29 PM, southsider2k5 said:

1. Fire Tony LaRussa 

Yes and add in Menechino. 

[T R U]

4 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Hahn spent $18 million on Leury, Harrison and Kelly.  Then he can't afford a real RF or 2B. And then picking Kimbrel over Rodon. Hahn/Haber is just a major anchor to overcome.

To be fair, its not like we would have had Rodon anyways. They picked trying to trade Kimbrel over offering the QO to Rodon. I am sure he would have rejected that and since we didn't offer the QO its safe to assume they weren't going to give him a 2 year 44 million dollar deal.

They should have declined Kimbrel, offered QO to Rodon, and then spent that 18 million elsewhere. Joc Pederson would have been perfect as a LH RF bat that would have been affordable.

 

[he gone.]

i'd normally say the above is using revisionist history ... but I don't think any of us think that. I'd have to dig through if i commented on Leury contract, but I remember thinking that's a lot of guaranteed years for Leury. Money to me is actually fine. He had proven himself enough over a decade to demand $5mm, just not for 3 years. 

I think i was generally net positive on Kimbrel trade and picking up his option. In a world of infinite money i can't fault hahn there. his terrible half year really killed his value but thought pollock was fair and we turned out okay there (even if pollock sucks right now)

Joe Kelly? I never liked. That was in response of them knowing they had to trade Kimbrel and that also took away some leverage for the Kimbrel trade. Relievers are failed starters ... they have flaws.  to give a substantial percentage of your payroll away to a bullpen is a risky decision. you better be sure it works. if it does, you're the yankees of a half decade ago ... however i still don't see any rings on those yankees fingers in the past decade and they have more room for error with higher payroll

harrison was a definite hated decision by me. i still think its dumb. i dont care hes playing better. he was cut two years ago by a last place team. dead weight. he had one good half season ... which we've seen many people do ... and then sucked post trade deadline. he's a zero WAR guy. at least it was just a year, so can't hate too much. but bad signing. 

The truth is with Rodon on this team we're probably in 1st place and even with all the shitty offense and terrible injuries etc we probably have a top 3 (and legit) shot at the world series. without him? we don't. less than 5% chance. The cost to acquire a guy like rodon via trade? detrimental to the farm which is also nonexistent. it was a poor FO job during covid and last year, especially covid when contracts were going cheap. our window was opening, the players were cheap, and we had our thumbs up our asses.

[Tnetennba]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:29 PM, southsider2k5 said:

1. Fire Tony LaRussa 

Nothing can be fixed until this happens. 

[kitekrazy]

So the let's "try this again with NL players" who will have to try to adjust to the AL in the 2nd half of the season?  It hasn't worked so far.  With such an inconsistent lineup hitters can't be protected. These guys would do well in the lineup of much, much better teams. 

[caulfield12]

20 hours ago, he gone. said:

Going to give this one some actual thought... 

Here's the easiest fixes, then to more complex/ to ripping it off entirely. 

Despite last years success I look at this team I think to myself it doesn't fit the mold to win a Championship with Tony at the helm with how he manages. So the question then becomes, do you can Tony, or re-tool to fit his needs? I'd be most in favor of starting with a mix-up of coaching staff. 

The Firing Squad Route:

Probably the least realistic. doesn't JR have a long track record of barely ever firing in-season? I know it's happened a few times, but don't think it happens very often, nor to one of his cronies. So TLR is here to stay in 2022. I personally think he transitions to the payroll elsewhere for 2023 ... in classic Sox mode, fail upwards. So if were firing now, it's the hitting coach. Menechino has to go as do the base coaches. It's not a huge thing, but we need to show urgency and those are bottom guys on the totem pole. Also heres the stats for team walks ...

22	Cleveland	2.89	2.00	3.00	3.09	2.72	2.80
23	Boston	2.88	1.67	3.00	2.50	3.22	3.17
24	Texas	2.84	2.67	3.00	3.04	2.64	2.67
25	Baltimore	2.79	3.67	2.00	3.00	2.60	2.78
26	Cincinnati	2.79	3.00	3.00	3.08	2.47	3.41
27	Miami	2.74	1.00	0.00	2.76	2.72	2.78
28	Oakland	2.49	4.33	4.00	2.70	2.29	3.36
29	Detroit	2.42	2.33	1.00	2.67	2.15	3.02
30	Chi Sox	2.41	2.67	1.00	2.63	2.19	3.60

There's no way the Sox should be in last in the majors with the amount of all-star caliber guys we have. Moncada and Yaz healthy can go a long way here, but overall this is awful. Assuming we shuffle TLR after this season I'd unfortunately settle for a guy like Naquin even though he doesn't move the needle for me. It allows Sheets to be sent to AAA. Outside of that? if Yaz is truly healthy I'd cut Reese McGuire. You have your lefty bat, and you roll with the hotter bat for the remainder of 2022 in Seby. Neither are likely the answer, but you can't waste a roster spot. So cut him and bring in an arm ala Cueto.. that might just be VV for the time being. Otherwise its a warm body thats similar. We need innings ... and lots of them. We have no chance of any success if we use Cease/Kopech to their max before end of season.  That's it. Then you just hope that pure talent and a hot/healthy streak sneaks you in the playoffs. Cross your fingers and hope for the best knowing you likely lose in the ALDS. This roster is flawed and not a WS contender, but squint and maybe all the stars align for 3-4 weeks. 

The more complex way:

This is actually my preferred method. The FO should know their guys more than me, but overall you can't have a roster consisting of:

Abreu, Eloy, Burger, Vaughn and a version of Yaz that can only catch half the games.

It's not going to win you anything, not this year and not next. To me one of Eloy or Vaughn has to go with whoever sticks around being the fulltime DH and playing field maybe 2 games a week. They are valuable enough names where you should be able to find a great return that makes both teams better. I'd prefer Vaughn sticks around, but obviously you're selling low on Eloy. Burger likely has no home either. You can't keep a bat like that around as backup DH/3B, it's just of no value to the overall team. Allows zero flexibility. He's a classic flip guy for a bullpen arm.  You have to build an OF that makes sense. Pollock is likely back next year and that's not entirely the worst thing. He should be your everyday LF knowing that he's going to be injured and give you about 110 games max meaning your 4th OF is super important. Engel is not that guy either. I was out on him, then loved him, now am back out. If he's your 4th OF, fine, but it's not preferable.  Robert is CF and RF NEEDS TO BE an actual major league talent. Unfortunately if you look around there's not much out there lefty OR righty that fits the bill for us and the other team.

Eloy to me has always been Carlos Lee. And Carlos Lee for Podsednik is kind of where my head is at. On surface it may not be a 1 for 1, but overall it makes the team better. 

The one name I could come up with was Cedric Mullins. Both are controllable for a bit and maybe they like Eloy for his power potential. That said .... they have Hays/Santander on the corners already. Eloy I guess would just slot into DH for Mancini. But trading Mullins doesn't really make them a better team... or give them cheaper/longer control. And the top guys they have coming up are corner OF. So ... ya ... unlikely. Maybe someone like Boston and Jarren Durran? Speedy guy who has talent. If you have an OF of Robert and Duran chasing down balls there's not many touching the ground ... Nick Senzel ... he's about as hurt as Eloy always is too. Same idea though. Former 2nd overall pick. Currently in CF for Reds, but can play 2b too ... like the flexibility. Is there something in Colorado? Maybe Brendan Rodgers and ? for Eloy? He'd be a monster out there. I just don't love their OF guys. Hold my beer on this one ... it's insane to say out loud ... but Mike Trout. I almost think they could do a 1 for 1. And maybe I'm off my rocker, but $35mm for 8 more years? Not Jerry's style. But that franchise is in disaray and if they're not getting Ohtani to extend? Then they're going to sell him ... all of a sudden they're probably seeing what they can get for Trout. I'm not sure anybody can name what a fair price is of taking $270mm contract of an oft-injured 31 year old for 8 more years is though. Nor do I think it's necessarily even a contract I'd risk taking. That said ... Trout in RF, Robert in CF?? wowzas. How about Castellanos? Not a great year out in Philly ... maybe they sell low and can pick him up more along the lines of a Jake Burger + Joe Kelly type of price? Or Graveman ... he's a righty, but I bet you could get him on the low right now. Bryan Reynolds obviously, though again, I don't see the upside necessarily for Pirates. Esteury Ruiz on the Padres? A righty again ... a guy who stole 71 bases in like 60 games this year so far in the minors. batting like .350 ... can play 2b and OF ... Dylan Carlson on the Cards? I don't see the Cards wanting Eloy with Oneil in LF, but maybe as DH? He's a switch hitter, young, controllable. Josh Lowe on the Rays ... probably would have to add a few bullpen type arms on from them. Or maybe add Vidal Brujan as well? 

It's a lot to chew on, but the main idea here goes back to that Carlos Lee trade.. we can't have a bunch of station to station DH types on this team. Abreu is still Abreu so that's not opening up the DH slot, and good ... that's a good problem. But then you need to trade on of the big lugs to get the bases moving, the ball in play. 

Nobody is going to want to take Joe Kelly and that contract unless we send significant money along with him.

Ruiz makes sense because he will lose his spot on the roster to Tatis in the next couple of weeks.  Although they might prefer to dump Grisham.  That’s a tough call whether that guy can ever rebound this season, a truly Pollock like year except Grisham is a very solid defender and provides occasional/inconsistent pop from the LH side.