Trade Rumors Catch-all

[maxjusttyped]

Fangraphs trade value series ranks Brayan Reynolds as the 34th most valuable player in baseball

Quote

 

What, you thought I was going to leave him off the list again? Reynolds had what will almost certainly be the best season of his career in 2021, but he’s still good this year even if he’s taken a step back. Maybe we let our collective trust in the scouting community get the better of us last year; Reynolds looked vaguely bust-ish as a Giants farmhand, and his early-career success was so BABIP-driven that it was easy to miss what was going on under the hood.

As it turns out, Reynolds has a lot working in his favor. He hits the ball hard, and he hits it in the air. His speed turns balls hit to the outfield into extra-base hits. There are warning signs, no doubt. A lot of his game is built on finding pitches to hit, and he’s having a down plate discipline year. Still, even a diminished Reynolds is a solid addition to any lineup. If you’re looking for a good-hitting center fielder, it’s Reynolds, free-agent-to-be Brandon Nimmo, and a bunch of superstars locked up on long-term deals. When you put it that way, maybe Reynolds should be higher.

Except, I’m not convinced he’s a true center fielder. His instincts out there leave something to be desired, and the defensive metrics mostly agree; they were mixed on him last year and unanimously see him as one of the worst center field defenders in baseball this year. That matches the eye test. Reynolds looks like a competent corner outfielder miscast in a tough job – perhaps a left fielder, given his throwing arm. With his bat, that’s still a really nice player, and given his age and contract status, it’s not like you’re risking much.

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2022-trade-value-31-to-40/

Edited July 26, 2022 by maxjusttyped

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Fangraphs trade value series has Brayan Reynolds at #34 in baseball

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2022-trade-value-31-to-40/

Great, since we’re likely stuck with Pollock unless he retires, we’re left with yet another corner outfielder.

[maxjusttyped]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Great, since we’re likely stuck with Pollock unless he retires, we’re left with yet another corner outfielder.

If the Sox agree with the consensus on here that Mongtomgery + Colas is too much, you don't have to worry about them acquiring Reynolds anytime soon

[ScootsMcGoots]

Can you trade managers? Asking for a friend

[GreenSox]

8 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

If the Sox agree with the consensus on here that Mongtomgery + Colas is too much, you don't have to worry about them acquiring Reynolds anytime soon

The Astros didn't give up a single top 100 prospect for Gerrit Cole.  

Anyway, making a trade like that this time of year is silly.  Look for cheap rentals.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, ScooterMcGuire said:

Can you trade managers? Asking for a friend

Not in Chicago.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

The Astros didn't give up a single top 100 prospect for Gerrit Cole.  

Anyway, making a trade like that this time of year is silly.  Look for cheap rentals.

Cole was a rental.

[caulfield12]

Just now, GreenSox said:

The Astros didn't give up a single top 100 prospect for Gerrit Cole.  

Anyway, making a trade like that this time of year is silly.  Look for cheap rentals.

Pirates made so many bad trades, especially on the pitching side.  Glasnow and Musgrove, too.

Then they dumped quality hitters like Bell and Starling Marte but held on to Gregory Polanco.  They’re seemingly operating much smarter the last 12-18 months, comparatively.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Cole was a rental.

And even then Houston gave up their #5 and #15, plus two MLB pieces.

[The Kids Can Play]

16 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

You do know the difference between Garrett Crochet and every single other starting pitcher you listed right?  Since his college career started in 2018, he has NEVER pitched more than 65 innings in a single calendar year.  Never.  You don't get from 60 to 200 innings in a one or two year span either.  You have to be conditioned for it.  Unless he is wiling to spend the next two full seasons in the minors, he will never be a starter.  It's similar to asking Usain Bolt to from the 100 meters to the marathon.  Their bodies just aren't ready for it.

I never said in any previous post that he could go to starter in one year or the very second he starts pitching again at the major league level. I simply said, in time he could become a starter. I know a pitcher needs to be conditioned to work up to a starter's role and that's why I think in time Crochet can be ramped up to be a starter over time. 

To say he will never be a starter though is ridiculous. To state it like it's a 100 percent done deal is absurd. Since you are not on the Sox staff and are not in charge of the coaching, rehabbing and strength work, that the Sox will require him to perform in order to work towards being a starter, you cannot make that statement like it's a fact and done deal. You can only state it's your opinion. Hahn said it several times that the Sox plan was to eventually make Crochet a starter. Why would they back off that goal. As I said before, it wouldn't be a bad thing for Crochet to be a relief pitcher for a year or so until he can get conditioned and ramped up to become a starter. In the worst case scenario, even if he never becomes a starter, he could be a productive 8th inning set up guy. Plus to your point that unless he is willing to spend two full seasons in the minors is really outlandishly wrong. First of all, it never has or ever will be, the choice of the player on how long he wants to stay in the minors. Secondly, the Sox FO will decide that faith. Based on his draft slot and huge upside potential, I doubt the Sox would keep a top pitching prospect in the minors for two more years to work him into a starter. He will simply be a reliever and then slowly work his strength up, as they did with Kopech and Chris Sale.

Again, what is the rush to get rid of Crochet? He is #1 pick, only 23 yrs old and capable of perhaps once again throwing upper 90's with a wicked slider. Pitching is and always will be the most important position in baseball. If you haven't been studying the minors at all four levels, which I do often, I factually can assure you that we have horrible pitching prospects in our farm system. Go check the ERA's and how they compare to other farm systems! This is why all four minor league teams are all under .500 and a combined 161-202 or.443!  This is also why depending on the which media source you read, the Sox farm system is rated between 28th to 30th. I would think the last thing we need is to get rid of good pitching prospects.

Btw, the comparison of Bolt going from the 100 to a marathon is a really dumb analogy. If you actually knew anything about track training, you would know that comparison is impossible to ever attain, due to body frame structure, muscle twitch fibers, types of training, etc. It might be more realistic to compare going from the 100 to the 400 meters. 

[GreenSox]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Pirates made so many bad trades, especially on the pitching side.  Glasnow and Musgrove, too.

Then they dumped quality hitters like Bell and Starling Marte but held on to Gregory Polanco.  They’re seemingly operating much smarter the last 12-18 months, comparatively.

Yes, Archer too (on the other side).  Let's get some of that action.  For goodness sakes don't be dupes to the Pirates.

This is the kind of deal where you should move Burger and Sheets along, with a couple of low level prospects.  Crochet, okay, but just be sure on this guy.  Get the good scouts to look at him.

Edited July 26, 2022 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I never said in any previous post that he could go to starter in one year or the very second he starts pitching again at the major league level. I simply said, in time he could become a starter. I know a pitcher needs to be conditioned to work up to a starter's role and that's why I think in time Crochet can be ramped up to be a starter over time. 

To say he will never be a starter though is ridiculous. To state it like it's a 100 percent done deal is absurd. Since you are not on the Sox staff and are not in charge of the coaching, rehabbing and strength work, that the Sox will require him to perform in order to work towards being a starter, you cannot make that statement like it's a fact and done deal. You can only state it's your opinion. Hahn said it several times that the Sox plan was to eventually make Crochet a starter. Why would they back off that goal. As I said before, it wouldn't be a bad thing for Crochet to be a relief pitcher for a year or so until he can get conditioned and ramped up to become a starter. In the worst case scenario, even if he never becomes a starter, he could be a productive 8th inning set up guy. Plus to your point that unless he is willing to spend two full seasons in the minors is really outlandishly wrong. First of all, it never has or ever will be, the choice of the player on how long he wants to stay in the minors. Secondly, the Sox FO will decide that faith. Based on his draft slot and huge upside potential, I doubt the Sox would keep a top pitching prospect in the minors for two more years to work him into a starter. He will simply be a reliever and then slowly work his strength up, as they did with Kopech and Chris Sale.

Again, what is the rush to get rid of Crochet? He is #1 pick, only 23 yrs old and capable of perhaps once again throwing upper 90's with a wicked slider. Pitching is and always will be the most important position in baseball. If you haven't been studying the minors at all four levels, which I do often, I factually can assure you that we have horrible pitching prospects in our farm system. Go check the ERA's and how they compare to other farm systems! This is why all four minor league teams are all under .500 and a combined 161-202 or.443!  This is also why depending on the which media source you read, the Sox farm system is rated between 28th to 30th. I would think the last thing we need is to get rid of good pitching prospects.

Btw, the comparison of Bolt going from the 100 to a marathon is a really dumb analogy. If you actually knew anything about track training, you would know that comparison is impossible to ever attain, due to body frame structure, muscle twitch fibers, types of training, etc. It might be more realistic to compare going from the 100 to the 400 meters. 

Hahn said a lot of things that didn't end up being true.  Who knows what the background of the situation actually was, but the bottom line is that Garrett Crochet is coming off of major surgery and has no history of being in shape to give starters innings.  I don't see any team, the Sox or a team trading for him, being willing to wait out the clock until 2025 or 2026 until he can get into the shape to be able  to handle a major league starting role.  Neither Sale nor Kopech were coming off of that low of innings totals AND a major surgery.

You keep mentioning other pitchers, but look at their lead up numbers.  Chris Sale threw 89 and 103 innings his last two seasons as a college starter.  Michael Kopech threw 134 and 126 in back to back seasons in the minors.  It isn't the same jump.  Even in Sale's case the Sox took insane care of him to get that jump, and he still got hurt and almost taken out of the rotation for good.

[GreenSox]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Cole was a rental.

No he wasn't.

[The Kids Can Play]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hahn said a lot of things that didn't end up being true.  Who knows what the background of the situation actually was, but the bottom line is that Garrett Crochet is coming off of major surgery and has no history of being in shape to give starters innings.  I don't see any team, the Sox or a team trading for him, being willing to wait out the clock until 2025 or 2026 until he can get into the shape to be able  to handle a major league starting role.  Neither Sale nor Kopech were coming off of that low of innings totals AND a major surgery.

You keep mentioning other pitchers, but look at their lead up numbers.  Chris Sale threw 89 and 103 innings his last two seasons as a college starter.  Michael Kopech threw 134 and 126 in back to back seasons in the minors.  It isn't the same jump.  Even in Sale's case the Sox took insane care of him to get that jump, and he still got hurt and almost taken out of the rotation for good.

We will have to agree to disagree. I could be wrong, but I don't think the Sox will trade Crochet or give up on making him a starter. Let's say he is never a starter, you can't tell me he couldn't be a reliable reliever. Again, with the complete lack of pitching prospects in the minors, the last thing the Sox need to do is give up and trade Garrett Crochet. Anybody who is still adamant to trade Crochet, seriously haven't followed the White Sox farm system and their pitching prospects. 

[chw42]

21 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Cole was a rental.

Cole was an Astro for 2 years. The Pirates got Musgrove and Moran for him IIRC. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

We will have to agree to disagree. I could be wrong, but I don't think the Sox will trade Crochet or give up on making him a starter. Let's say he is never a starter, you can't tell me he couldn't be a reliable reliever. Again, with the complete lack of pitching prospects in the minors, the last thing the Sox need to do is give up and trade Garrett Crochet. Anybody who is still adamant to trade Crochet, seriously haven't followed the White Sox farm system and their pitching prospects. 

On the Sox schedule, they will use him as a reliever for sure.  Even if someone else trades for him, who is going to wait 2 or 3 years for him to build enough innings to start at the major league level?  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Jesus, Reynolds is not worth what will be two top 100 prospects

Sure he is. What are the odds that either Montgomery or Colas become as good as Bryan Reynolds. Not very high. Reynolds instantly becomes the Sox best HR hitter, he balances the lineup, being a switch hitter , never have to pinch hit for him, he's not a free agent until 2026. He also has decent speed.

He's having a down year compared to how really good he was last year, 11th in MVP voting for a guy on a terrible team. Maybe that means his 2nd half will be very special. It could also mean he's been playing dinged up . He has missed time recently with a right oblique strain. He returned to the Pirates lineup yesterday and went 0-4 playing CF.

Forgot : He's also signed through 2023 at 2 yrs/$13M so relatively cheap through 2023 then he hits arbitration.

Edited July 26, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

On the Sox schedule, they will use him as a reliever for sure.  Even if someone else trades for him, who is going to wait 2 or 3 years for him to build enough innings to start at the major league level?  

As I said, if the worst case he is a permanent late inning reliever that could be a huge benefit. Look how many games were blown this season because of our bullpen always imploding. Although I still think in a few years he is a starter. I still don't think the Sox will trade him right now.

We don't want to be pissed down the road like Cubs fans are every time they see Cease throw another gem. 

[bmags]

Crochet is obviously no longer a starter, and obviously the Sox most likely used trade chip.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said:

As I said, if the worst case he is a permanent late inning reliever that could be a huge benefit. Look how many games were blown this season because of our bullpen always imploding. Although I still think in a few years he is a starter. I still don't think the Sox will trade him right now.

We don't want to be pissed down the road like Cubs fans are every time they see Cease throw another gem. 

You are looking at this wrong.  Of course the Sox want him back.  But you also have to look at what other teams will want.  Crochet is going to be near the top of a lot of teams lists of assets that could be valuable from the Sox with how bad the rest of their farm system is.

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Crochet is obviously no longer a starter, and obviously the Sox most likely used trade chip.

As the old adage goes, "be careful what you wish for"! Trading away Crochet before the Sox find out what he can do, could be another potential Dylan Cease mistake the Cubs regret to this day.

[chw42]

2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

As the old adage goes, "be careful what you wish for"! Trading away Crochet before the Sox find out what he can do, could be another potential Dylan Cease mistake the Cubs regret to this day.

Crochet only has 4 years of control left. And one of those years is going to be him rehabbing and maybe getting stretched out to be a starter. So any team getting him really only has 3 arbitration years with him. 

[GreenSox]

15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sure he is. What are the odds that either Montgomery or Colas become as good as Bryan Reynolds. Not very high. Reynolds instantly becomes the Sox best HR hitter, he balances the lineup, being a switch hitter , never have to pinch hit for him, he's not a free agent until 2026. He also has decent speed.

It shouldn't cost nearly that much to get him.  And he has a .795 OPS this year.  He had a .632 OPS 2 seasons ago.  

[Bob Sacamano]

10 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Crochet only has 4 years of control left. And one of those years is going to be him rehabbing and maybe getting stretched out to be a starter. So any team getting him really only has 3 arbitration years with him. 

A team could have him do that in the minors though so he would not accrue any service time.

[KipWellsFan]

1 hour ago, maxjusttyped said:

Savant had him as the 11th most valuable framer last season despite catching ~half the number of pitches as some of the catchers around him. This year both Fangraphs and Savant both have him at +1 runs or better. He's very clearly a good pitch framer and defensive catcher overall.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catcher_framing?year=2022&team=&min=q&type=catcher&sort=4,1
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=40&type=1&season=2022&month=0&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=20,d

I hope you're right!