Trade Rumors Catch-all

[chw42]

Just now, Bob Sacamano said:

A team could have him do that in the minors though so he would not accrue any service time.

That is true. But I think he'd still be on an innings limit for the first few years if he becomes a starter. 

[The Kids Can Play]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You are looking at this wrong.  Of course the Sox want him back.  But you also have to look at what other teams will want.  Crochet is going to be near the top of a lot of teams lists of assets that could be valuable from the Sox with how bad the rest of their farm system is.

Actually I think it is you my friend looking at this all wrong. 

Of course many teams want Crochet. His upside is huge! However if you are weak at pitching prospects in the minors, then you give away position players vs your potential top pitching prospects you already have. The one thing we do have a lot of in the minors are position players. Or perhaps the Sox trade as a package using the pitchers like Ruiz, Martin, Bummer, Foster, Lambert, VV and Banks to name a few.

The Cubs gave up on Cease because they thought he would never reach the potential he has reached...and thus why they felt it was worth giving him up to get Quintana. Btw, that just might just be the worst Cub's trade only second to Lou Brock, especially if Eloy ever reaches his potential.

Be careful what you wish for. If our pitching is still a problem in a few years and we see Crochet go off and have greatness with another team...how will Sox fans feel then? I have many Cubs friends and it sickens them to see Cease killing it and not even have Quintana to show for it. 

 

[chw42]

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

It shouldn't cost nearly that much to get him.  And he has a .795 OPS this year.  He had a .632 OPS 2 seasons ago.  

I wouldn't put too much weight on a 60 game sample. That was also Reynolds' 2nd year in the majors. He's probably not as good as he was last year but nowhere near as bad as he was in 2020.

[GreenSox]

16 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

As the old adage goes, "be careful what you wish for"! Trading away Crochet before the Sox find out what he can do, could be another potential Dylan Cease mistake the Cubs regret to this day.

I'd say that if the Sox can't/won't turn Crochet into a starter, then I would be willing to trade him.  For someone good - not  a middle reliever or that ilk.

Everybody wants developed or semi-developed pitching prospects;  seedlings have a much better chance at success than seeds.

[GreenSox]

2 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I wouldn't put too much weight on a 60 game sample. That was also Reynolds' 2nd year in the majors. He's probably not as good as he was last year but nowhere near as bad as he was in 2020.

I don't disagree.  But look at this year then .795.  Say he's really .820.  That's good, not great.    And his defensive numbers aren't particular good.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

It shouldn't cost nearly that much to get him.  And he has a .795 OPS this year.  He had a .632 OPS 2 seasons ago.  

SO you're going to count the 60 game season as a full season. Got it. Nevermind he is considered one of the best in the game who has 4 years left of eligibility and probably 8 teams would love to have who Pittsburgh probably doesn't even want to trade. Is a 795 OPS considered bad to you? The Sox have only 3 guys with an OPS of .795 or higher. Vaughn , Robert and Areu and are in desperate need of a bat that can do that from the left side and they also are in desperate need of a HR hitter and an OF who can run and field. Plus we have no idea how long Robert is going to be out.

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

I'd say that if the Sox can't/won't turn Crochet into a starter, then I would be willing to trade him.  For someone good - not  a middle reliever or that ilk.

Everybody wants developed or semi-developed pitching prospects;  seedlings have a much better chance at success than seeds.

Everyone here is assuming that the Sox have determined 100 percent that Crochet will never be a starter. I sure would like someone on this forum to show me the documentation where this was publicly stated for the record from the front office.

Base on your premise if he is just a seed, why would any team want him or give us anything back in great value in return on a trade?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

The Astros didn't give up a single top 100 prospect for Gerrit Cole.  

Anyway, making a trade like that this time of year is silly.  Look for cheap rentals.

You can't keep giving away youth for rentals. This team needs some permanent fixes. I'm fine with rental pitchers but the need in the lineup for what Reynolds provides is HUGE.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I don't disagree.  But look at this year then .795.  Say he's really .820.  That's good, not great.    And his defensive numbers aren't particular good.

His defensive numbers aren't great because he's playing CF where he shouldn't be. He's not exactly a RF either with his throwing arm but he can run down some balls at least out there unlike Vaughn, Sheets and Pollock. Go look at the lineups of the best teams and see how many .800 OPS guys some of them have. Without Robert the Sox have 2 and Robert has the same OPS as Reynolds .795 .

Edit: Even the pitiful cubs have 2 legit .800+ Ops guys in Contreras and Happ and 2 more if you count the 58 and 59 games of Morel and the .793 Suzuki has

Edited July 26, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

17 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Actually I think it is you my friend looking at this all wrong. 

Of course many teams want Crochet. His upside is huge! However if you are weak at pitching prospects in the minors, then you give away position players vs your potential top pitching prospects you already have. The one thing we do have a lot of in the minors are position players. Or perhaps the Sox trade as a package using the pitchers like Ruiz, Martin, Bummer, Foster, Lambert, VV and Banks to name a few.

The Cubs gave up on Cease because they thought he would never reach the potential he has reached...and thus why they felt it was worth giving him up to get Quintana. Btw, that just might just be the worst Cub's trade only second to Lou Brock, especially if Eloy ever reaches his potential.

Be careful what you wish for. If our pitching is still a problem in a few years and we see Crochet go off and have greatness with another team...how will Sox fans feel then? I have many Cubs friends and it sickens them to see Cease killing it and not even have Quintana to show for it. 

 

So we should trade our not so good guys to the other teams.  Um, why would you think the other teams will give up premium to get our not so good players?  The reason teams want Crochet is because of his ceiling.  Maybe one other guy in the system has that kind of an arm.  If that your stance, you may well not get any deals done.

And the idea that the Cubs traded Cease because they didn't like him is laughable.  They traded him because the Sox really wanted him AND the Cubs needed a good starting pitcher right now, not in 2 or 3 years.  That is how these deals work.  The other team isn't dumb.  They want the top potential guys. If they don't get it from you, they get it from someone else and you get nothing and have to explain to your fans why you did nothing at the break and missed the playoffs.

[GreenSox]

18 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Everyone here is assuming that the Sox have determined 100 percent that Crochet will never be a starter. I sure would like someone on this forum to show me the documentation where this was publicly stated for the record from the front office.

Base on your premise if he is just a seed, why would any team want him or give us anything back in great value in return on a trade?

He's a seedling, more than that really.  Teams absolutely will want him.   High school Pitchers (seeds when drafted) have the lowest success rate; so teams like to trade for, say high A or AA prospects (seedlings).  That's what I was trying to say.  I see both sides of this; I lean to the reliever side, given the lack of  starter depth, the Sox could have stretched him out this season, but didn't.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Everyone here is assuming that the Sox have determined 100 percent that Crochet will never be a starter. I sure would like someone on this forum to show me the documentation where this was publicly stated for the record from the front office.

Base on your premise if he is just a seed, why would any team want him or give us anything back in great value in return on a trade?

The writing is on the wall.  Even if the Sox don't say it out loud, their actions speak loudest of all.  After that common sense takes over.  Unless you are willing to shove him into the minors for years, he isn't going to be a starter.  You can't just say he is a starter and push him out there for 180 innings. That takes work and time, and Crochet hasn't done any of that work yet.

[GreenSox]

16 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You can't keep giving away youth for rentals. This team needs some permanent fixes. I'm fine with rental pitchers but the need in the lineup for what Reynolds provides is HUGE.

I certainly wouldn't give away good youth for rentals.  But this isn't the time of year to trade for long-term guys (price is higher) and if you trade for a long-term guy, you better be sure.

The following relievers were each traded (by Rick Hahn) for Rule 5 players:

A)       41 games, 48.1 IP, 2.23 ERA, 1 Sv, 1.034 WHIP

B)       40 games, 38.2 IP, 2.56 ERA, 16 Sv, 1.164 WHIP

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by GreenSox

[Colome's Hat]

If the Giants fall out of it this week, how much do we think Rodon and Pederson would cost?  I think they are less costly simply because they are rentals.  Outisde of Reynolds and Soto, I think Pederson is the best option for the Sox.  And having Rodon back would be amazing.  Again, don't know how realistic this is.  I guess it depends on what the Giants do this week.

[Quin]

1 minute ago, Colome's Hat said:

If the Giants fall out of it this week, how much do we think Rodon and Pederson would cost?  I think they are less costly simply because they are rentals.  Outisde of Reynolds and Soto, I think Pederson is the best option for the Sox.  And having Rodon back would be amazing.  Again, don't know how realistic this is.  I guess it depends on what the Giants do this week.

Get Luis Gonzalez back to truly complete the head-desk trade.

[Colome's Hat]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

Get Luis Gonzalez back to truly complete the head-desk trade.

I want JocTober baby!

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I certainly wouldn't give away good youth for rentals.  But this isn't the time of year to trade for long-term guys (price is higher) and if you trade for a long-term guy, you better be sure.

The following relievers were each traded (by Rick Hahn) for Rule 5 players:

A)       41 games, 48.1 IP, 2.23 ERA, 1 Sv, 1.034 WHO

B)       40 games, 38.2 IP, 2.56 ERA, 16 Sv, 1.164 WHIP

 

Well other teams do give away youth for rentals this time of year. But , its cool and the Sox can miss the playoffs this year and come back strong next year without Cueto and Lynn another year older. Welcome back to mired in mediocrity but we've been just that since the All-Star break last year with the great players like Crochet , Eloy , Grandal ,Sheets, Moncada, Pollock, Harrison and Burger and our wonderful minor leaguers no one wants to trade.

Edited July 26, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[GreenSox]

23 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

SO you're going to count the 60 game season as a full season. Got it. Nevermind he is considered one of the best in the game who has 4 years left of eligibility and probably 8 teams would love to have who Pittsburgh probably doesn't even want to trade. Is a 795 OPS considered bad to you? The Sox have only 3 guys with an OPS of .795 or higher. Vaughn , Robert and Areu and are in desperate need of a bat that can do that from the left side and they also are in desperate need of a HR hitter and an OF who can run and field. Plus we have no idea how long Robert is going to be out.

.795 isn't bad, but certainly not "one of the best in the game" unless/until he repeats that 2021 a few times.  Sox are 18th in OPS, so, no kidding, he would be one of our best hitters.  But not for our top 2 prospects (good orgs don't trade their top 2 prospects and few in the top 5 anyway).  The package is Burger, Sheets,  maybe Crochet, a low level minor leaguer or 2.  That should do it for the Pirates.
 

Re our top 2 prospects, they aren't just out of thin air.  They are based on what the Sox do well:

Players from Cuba
Middle infielders:  Escobar, Anderson, Tatis, Semien is top shelf in development.

Oh and Hahn  castoff Luis Gonzales has a .777 OPS with the Giants.  We may not be even having this conversation if the GM was current on analytics and didn't jam the 40-man with  high K reliever who can't throw strikes.

The Sox farm is better than advertised.

[ChiSox59]

56 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Crochet only has 4 years of control left. And one of those years is going to be him rehabbing and maybe getting stretched out to be a starter. So any team getting him really only has 3 arbitration years with him. 

They could option him though.  There is no IL in the offseason.  

[ChiSox59]

12 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

I want JocTober baby!

All the DHs!

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

.795 isn't bad, but certainly not "one of the best in the game" unless/until he repeats that 2021 a few times.  Sox are 18th in OPS, so, no kidding, he would be one of our best hitters.  But not for our top 2 prospects (good orgs don't trade their top 2 prospects and few in the top 5 anyway).  The package is Burger, Sheets,  maybe Crochet, a low level minor leaguer or 2.  That should do it for the Pirates.
 

Re our top 2 prospects, they aren't just out of thin air.  They are based on what the Sox do well:

Players from Cuba
Middle infielders:  Escobar, Anderson, Tatis, Semien is top shelf in development.

Oh and Hahn  castoff Luis Gonzales has a .777 OPS with the Giants.  We may not be even having this conversation if the GM was current on analytics and didn't jam the 40-man with  high K reliever who can't throw strikes.

The Sox farm is better than advertised.

Burger , Sheets and Crochet for Reynolds. That is delusional at best. A 3rd baseman who can't field, a 1b baseman who can't hit and an injured relief pitcher.. Oh thank you white Sox for such a wonderful package for our declining OF who will only surely get worse through all the years he has before he reaches free agency  What a deal !

[Quin]

7 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

.795 isn't bad, but certainly not "one of the best in the game" unless/until he repeats that 2021 a few times.  Sox are 18th in OPS, so, no kidding, he would be one of our best hitters.  But not for our top 2 prospects (good orgs don't trade their top 2 prospects and few in the top 5 anyway).  The package is Burger, Sheets,  maybe Crochet, a low level minor leaguer or 2.  That should do it for the Pirates.
 

Re our top 2 prospects, they aren't just out of thin air.  They are based on what the Sox do well:

Players from Cuba
Middle infielders:  Escobar, Anderson, Tatis, Semien is top shelf in development.

Oh and Hahn  castoff Luis Gonzales has a .777 OPS with the Giants.  We may not be even having this conversation if the GM was current on analytics and didn't jam the 40-man with  high K reliever who can't throw strikes.

The Sox farm is better than advertised.

To be fair, this wasn't trying to jam the 40-man.

It was a stupid as shit attempt at saving money, which is even more infuriating. 

[GreenSox]

23 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 Welcome back to mired in mediocrity but we've been just that since the All-Star break last year with the great players like Crochet , Eloy , Grandal ,Sheets, Moncada, Pollock, Harrison and Burger and our wonderful minor leaguers no one wants to trade.

??  Those are exactly the guys we should trade (not Eloy, as that's clearly selling low). You want to trade our best prospects.
Sheets, Burger, Crochet and a couple of low minors guys for Reynolds?  fine.

And BTW, we're mired in mediocrity because spent $36 million on Leury, Harrison, Kelly and Pollock, the latter of whom suddenly can neither hit nor defend.

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by GreenSox

[ChiSox59]

10 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

.795 isn't bad, but certainly not "one of the best in the game" unless/until he repeats that 2021 a few times.  Sox are 18th in OPS, so, no kidding, he would be one of our best hitters.  But not for our top 2 prospects (good orgs don't trade their top 2 prospects and few in the top 5 anyway).  The package is Burger, Sheets,  maybe Crochet, a low level minor leaguer or 2.  That should do it for the Pirates.
 

Re our top 2 prospects, they aren't just out of thin air.  They are based on what the Sox do well:

Players from Cuba
Middle infielders:  Escobar, Anderson, Tatis, Semien is top shelf in development.

Oh and Hahn  castoff Luis Gonzales has a .777 OPS with the Giants.  We may not be even having this conversation if the GM was current on analytics and didn't jam the 40-man with  high K reliever who can't throw strikes.

The Sox farm is better than advertised.

Lol.  You always act like you have all the answers to what ails this team and then propose a package like this. 

The Pirates would laugh at a Crochet + Sheets + Burger and "a low level minor leaguer or two" offer.  

"Here, take my older spare parts, and give me your most valuable asset" 

Running a baseball org would be easy if you can dictate the terms of every transaction like its a video game.  

[chw42]

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

All the DHs!

When Joc missed that line drive by Sheets against us, it was the most White Sox thing an outfielder could do. He belongs here.