bmags Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 Seems like Giants are still pretty good. If you have an owner who feels its icky to spend most of the orgs money and time scouting unproven talent, well the Giants showing you can still make hay with great pro scouting and incredible player development. BUt you have to have people in your org who want to be the best at something, not just make sure they are competent in all the things the other orgs are doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, ptatc said: And how is deGrom pitching this year? you are right, hes been hurt since July. I am so happy we stuck with healthier arms in Keuchel, Velasquez, and Cueto (-1 WAR, 22 million) rather than offer $16 million for a TOR who gets hurt sometimes. If and when his arm gets tired, do you think its going to be before or after he throws up 6 WAR on the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 imagine not offering the most dominant pitcher in the game the QO because you were scared he'd accept it. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: imagine not offering the most dominant pitcher in the game the QO because you were scared he'd accept it. Unfortunately we don't have to imagine it, Ray 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, reiks12 said: you are right, hes been hurt since July. I am so happy we stuck with healthier arms in Keuchel, Velasquez, and Cueto (-1 WAR, 22 million) rather than offer $16 million for a TOR who gets hurt sometimes. If and when his arm gets tired, do you think its going to be before or after he throws up 6 WAR on the season? Does it matter? People seem down on Jimenez because he is always hurt. However this doesn't seem to apply to Rodon. We will take what we get from Rodon but not Jimenez. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: imagine not offering the most dominant pitcher in the game the QO because you were scared he'd accept it. Well, arguably Top 5-10 in the game...but on the way. The last time we clearly had THE best pitcher in baseball was Jose Contreras for a stretch of 2005-06. At this point, only another injury is going to derail this narrative about Hahn's offseason decision-making. Getting rid of players in their 20s for veterans in their 30s doesn't usually work unless you are the Braves or Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 1 minute ago, ptatc said: Does it matter? People seem down on Jimenez because he is always hurt. However this doesn't seem to apply to Rodon. We will take what we get from Rodon but not Jimenez. Because Jimenez's career fWAR is less than Rodon's 2021. Second point is pitchers are always injured in peak velocity modern day baseball. Position players were always perceived to be more valuable due to playing nearly everyday and getting hurt less frequently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 Just now, ptatc said: Does it matter? People seem down on Jimenez because he is always hurt. However this doesn't seem to apply to Rodon. We will take what we get from Rodon but not Jimenez. It applied to Rodon until he carried this club last season with Cy Young stuff. The QO was a no brainer. When Eloy throws up front running MVP numbers until mid August then the comparison would be more fair. Until then, not even close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 34 minutes ago, ptatc said: Does it matter? People seem down on Jimenez because he is always hurt. However this doesn't seem to apply to Rodon. We will take what we get from Rodon but not Jimenez. If Carlos throws even 90-100 innings at his current production (or near it) he'd be worth the QO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, reiks12 said: It applied to Rodon until he carried this club last season with Cy Young stuff. The QO was a no brainer. When Eloy throws up front running MVP numbers until mid August then the comparison would be more fair. Until then, not even close. Carried the club in the first half, and then proceeded to suck and be hurt when it mattered like the rest of his career. Happy for Rodon, but he’ll be hurt in no time. still no excuse to not give him the QO tho. Edited April 27, 2022 by ChiSox59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 39 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Carried the club in the first half, and then proceeded to suck and be hurt when it mattered like the rest of his career. Happy for Rodon, but he’ll be hurt in no time. still no excuse to not give him the QO tho. this is where I am at. Love that he looks great. Really want him to succeed...just don't see it as summer heats up. But HOW did you not offer a QO? That literally should have made JR cream his pants..."we can get a stud for market value or less....for 1 year...and if he says NO...we get a draft pick and don't have to pay him....ohhhhhhhh" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 Just now, EloyJenkins said: this is where I am at. Love that he looks great. Really want him to succeed...just don't see it as summer heats up. But HOW did you not offer a QO? That literally should have made JR cream his pants..."we can get a stud for market value or less....for 1 year...and if he says NO...we get a draft pick and don't have to pay him....ohhhhhhhh" It almost feels like there was some sort of handshake agreement when he took the cheap 1 year deal that if he had a big season they wouldn't QO him. It honestly seems like the only thing that makes even a sliver of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: It almost feels like there was some sort of handshake agreement when he took the cheap 1 year deal that if he had a big season they wouldn't QO him. It honestly seems like the only thing that makes even a sliver of sense. and if the sox did Rodon and Boras that solid...he surely isn't returning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: It almost feels like there was some sort of handshake agreement when he took the cheap 1 year deal that if he had a big season they wouldn't QO him. It honestly seems like the only thing that makes even a sliver of sense. If they actually did something like this, I am a little surprised there hasn't been any whisper of it other than me and you speculating here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: It almost feels like there was some sort of handshake agreement when he took the cheap 1 year deal that if he had a big season they wouldn't QO him. It honestly seems like the only thing that makes even a sliver of sense. I think this line of thinking gives too much credit to the FO. They screwed up by not giving it to him. I'm 100% on board with not matching the Giants offer, because it's $4 mil more for this year and if he has a monster year he opts out and if he doesn't you're on the hook for the 2nd year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 It was obvious on how they used Rodon last year that they never intended to offer a QO. He didnt pitch for 2 years and there was no limit. Just let him gas himself out and then let him walk. I am interested to see what the Giants do this season but in his first 4 starts hes averaging ~10 less pitches a game compared to 2021. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, reiks12 said: It was obvious on how they used Rodon last year that they never intended to offer a QO. He didnt pitch for 2 years and there was no limit. Just let him gas himself out and then let him walk. I am interested to see what the Giants do this season but in his first 4 starts hes averaging ~10 less pitches a game compared to 2021. I think its safe to say based on his use in the early going with the Giants that they're going to wring him dry. He's pitched more innings than just about any SP. A lot of that is because he's been good, but his pitch counts will climb as he gets out of April. Edited April 27, 2022 by ChiSox59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I think its safe to say based on his use in the early going with the Giants that they're going to ring him dry. He's pitched more innings than just about any SP. A lot of that is because he's been good, but his pitch counts will climb as he gets out of April. Damn yeah hes up there, 4th in MLB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 3 hours ago, ptatc said: Does it matter? People seem down on Jimenez because he is always hurt. However this doesn't seem to apply to Rodon. We will take what we get from Rodon but not Jimenez. Rodon would have replaced Keuchel in the rotation, so a similar comparison would be preferring Haseley over Eloy, which no one is saying, despite Eloy always being injured. I would take chance with Rodon at the cost of QO over Keuchel any day. This wouldn’t be as big of a deal had they not extend the QO but brought in a Gausman or Ray or traded for Montas or Manaea. That would have at least tell me that they recognize the issue with the backend of rotation, they didn’t feel comfortable with Rodon, but brought in someone else to replace him. But the fact that they let Rodon go for nothing (not even a QO) and then did nothing to strengthen the rotation just makes this a more and more silly decision with each passing day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said: Rodon would have replaced Keuchel in the rotation, so a similar comparison would be preferring Haseley over Eloy, which no one is saying, despite Eloy always being injured. I would take chance with Rodon at the cost of QO over Keuchel any day. This wouldn’t be as big of a deal had they not extend the QO but brought in a Gausman or Ray or traded for Montas or Manaea. That would have at least tell me that they recognize the issue with the backend of rotation, they didn’t feel comfortable with Rodon, but brought in someone else to replace him. But the fact that they let Rodon go for nothing (not even a QO) and then did nothing to strengthen the rotation just makes this a more and more silly decision with each passing day. I agree they should have brought someone else in. However it would have needed to been someone they could count on for the season lime Manea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 5 hours ago, ptatc said: Does it matter? People seem down on Jimenez because he is always hurt. However this doesn't seem to apply to Rodon. We will take what we get from Rodon but not Jimenez. And Robert… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 4 hours ago, reiks12 said: It was obvious on how they used Rodon last year that they never intended to offer a QO. He didnt pitch for 2 years and there was no limit. Just let him gas himself out and then let him walk. I am interested to see what the Giants do this season but in his first 4 starts hes averaging ~10 less pitches a game compared to 2021. He’s #4 in pitches per game in MLB in 2022. This idea that the Giants are somehow going to take much better care of him and not “abuse” him like the Sox did in 2021 is dumb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 https://www.mlb.com/news/carlos-rodon-sets-giants-record-for-strikeouts-in-1st-4-games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 3 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: And Robert… True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoUEvenShift Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 11 hours ago, reiks12 said: not worth the QO. Was about to post this... fuck Hahn, fuck Jerry, Fuck TLR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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