Old Sock Drawer, ex Sox player discussion

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

That would be more palatable than the Padres for most.

The crazy thing is this Giants’ offense might as well be the Cleveland Guardians.  In fact, almost nobody would take SF.  I mean, Luis Gonzalez is playing a key role right now.  Yet they’re somehow right there in the thick of it again, at least so far.

I was referring to the White Sox

[Kyyle23]

17 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Hes already worth the QO, dont have to wait anymore

That's a nice opinion and I am not sure right now if I will agree with it in four months

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Hes already worth the QO, dont have to wait anymore

Didn't have to wait at all to know he was worth the QO. I know the argument always was that the Sox know him best with regards to his medicals which is fair. However it's Hahn's job to improve the White Sox and not to improve the chances of other teams signing him for cheaper or to just throw away draft picks.

If Rodon accepted the QO we got a guy who was among the best pitchers in baseball when he was pitching. If he refuses it the Sox get a draft pick and make it more difficult for others to sign him .The arm tiring was totally expected given how few innings he pitched the previous 2 years. The Giants signed him with a better conditioned arm because of those innings he pitched last year. His meds must've looked OK to the Giants.

You can make up a lot of scenarios of what could've happened if Rodon took the QO . Maybe they don't sign Cueto and Vince Velasquez . Maybe they don't give Leury 3 years . Maybe they don't pick up Kimbrels option and free up money to get different players like Eduardo Escobar instead. There are all kinds of ways the money could've been allocated better.

[CentralChamps21]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Didn't have to wait at all to know he was worth the QO. I know the argument always was that the Sox know him best with regards to his medicals which is fair. However it's Hahn's job to improve the White Sox and not to improve the chances of other teams signing him for cheaper or to just throw away draft picks.

If Rodon accepted the QO we got a guy who was among the best pitchers in baseball when he was pitching. If he refuses it the Sox get a draft pick and make it more difficult for others to sign him .The arm tiring was totally expected given how few innings he pitched the previous 2 years. The Giants signed him with a better conditioned arm because of those innings he pitched last year. His meds must've looked OK to the Giants.

You can make up a lot of scenarios of what could've happened if Rodon took the QO . Maybe they don't sign Cueto and Vince Velasquez . Maybe they don't give Leury 3 years . Maybe they don't pick up Kimbrels option and free up money to get different players like Eduardo Escobar instead. There are all kinds of ways the money could've been allocated better.

I think the deadline to pick up Kimbrel's option came before the decision to make the QO, but the rest of what you said makes sense.

[Rowand44]

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Didn't have to wait at all to know he was worth the QO. I know the argument always was that the Sox know him best with regards to his medicals which is fair. However it's Hahn's job to improve the White Sox and not to improve the chances of other teams signing him for cheaper or to just throw away draft picks.

If Rodon accepted the QO we got a guy who was among the best pitchers in baseball when he was pitching. If he refuses it the Sox get a draft pick and make it more difficult for others to sign him .The arm tiring was totally expected given how few innings he pitched the previous 2 years. The Giants signed him with a better conditioned arm because of those innings he pitched last year. His meds must've looked OK to the Giants.

You can make up a lot of scenarios of what could've happened if Rodon took the QO . Maybe they don't sign Cueto and Vince Velasquez . Maybe they don't give Leury 3 years . Maybe they don't pick up Kimbrels option and free up money to get different players like Eduardo Escobar instead. There are all kinds of ways the money could've been allocated better.

Seemed fair but we clearly shouldn't give this organization the benefit of the doubt.  I was always on the fence about bringing him back just cause I didn't know his health situation but if he was always healthy(and like you said the tired arm was always going to happen last year) then the QO was an absolute no brainer...but here we are.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I think the deadline to pick up Kimbrel's option came before the decision to make the QO, but the rest of what you said makes sense.

From what I can see the Kimbrel option was in the news Nov. 6 and the QO offer decision Nov. 7 so approx. the same time. I'm sure they decided what to do on both way before then.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

29 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

Seemed fair but we clearly shouldn't give this organization the benefit of the doubt.  I was always on the fence about bringing him back just cause I didn't know his health situation but if he was always healthy(and like you said the tired arm was always going to happen last year) then the QO was an absolute no brainer...but here we are.

I never did give them the benefit of the doubt. Like you I didn't know his health but I went under the assumption that he wasn't hurt because he was still pitching just not as effectively.  If his MRI's and what not showed anything wrong ,which Rodon would surely be aware of, then why would he still continue to pitch ? That's why from the beginning I was saying they should give him the QO.

I will never understand picking up the $16M option on a relief pitcher who sucked for you in a short period of time over giving an $18M QO to one of the best starting pitchers in baseball who pitched his heart out for you to help you make the playoffs and without him for the majority of the 2nd half the Sox were barely above .500 . Not only did they pitch him in situations he apparently couldn't handle but then tried to justify what they traded for him by spending the majority of the off season trying to get rid of him.

The odd thing is they pitched Rodon in the 1st half as if there was zero chance his arm would get tired in the 2nd half when they should 've been pitching him less because of the time missed the previous 2 years and tried to keep him available for the playoffs. It's as if they had no clue or didn't care about their best pitcher being available for the playoffs. And that kind of thinking worries me when the same group is handling Kopech.

Edited May 4, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[reiks12]

Imagine if we had an owner like Cohen, not only would we have Rodon, but Keuchel would have been dfa'ed. Those two moves alone add 10 wins to this team by the end of the year.

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Imagine if we had an owner like Cohen, not only would we have Rodon, but Keuchel would have been dfa'ed. Those two moves alone add 10 wins to this team by the end of the year.

Let's see what the sepnding is like after 5 years. That's when the tax advantages of buying the team end and the real owner shows up.

[Kyyle23]

11 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Imagine if we had an owner like Cohen, not only would we have Rodon, but Keuchel would have been dfa'ed. Those two moves alone add 10 wins to this team by the end of the year.

Arturo Moreno came on like a house on fire too and it didn't make a difference at all, even with the greatest player in the world.   Not excusing this front office but spending tons of money doesn't always lead to glory 

[caulfield12]

33 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Arturo Moreno came on like a house on fire too and it didn't make a difference at all, even with the greatest player in the world.   Not excusing this front office but spending tons of money doesn't always lead to glory 

Going by this argument, KW is the only Sox GM who has proven his capability to win a WS with a mid tier payroll.

And "Stars and Scrubs" from 2012-2016 clearly didn't work well, either.  Even in the payroll-challenged AL Central.

Odds are always on the teams with the Top 6-8 payroll, as there is about a 65-75% correlation from year to year with those teams making the postseason.  Rays, Braves, Brewers, A's are exceptions to the general rule.

[Kyyle23]

43 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Going by this argument, KW is the only Sox GM who has proven his capability to win a WS with a mid tier payroll.

And "Stars and Scrubs" from 2012-2016 clearly didn't work well, either.  Even in the payroll-challenged AL Central.

Odds are always on the teams with the Top 6-8 payroll, as there is about a 65-75% correlation from year to year with those teams making the postseason.  Rays, Braves, Brewers, A's are exceptions to the general rule.

No that's not by going off any argument I made that's just you saying some shit

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

That's a nice opinion and I am not sure right now if I will agree with it in four months

Not sure what this means. He's been completely dominant for a month of baseball. The Sox gave Kimbrel 16 million for a max of about 60-70 innings. Rodon is half way there already - 29 innings. If he gets to 60-70 innings, from a financial and impact standpoint, he very likely would have exceeded the QO value. 

One could argue that dominating for 1 months impact on the standings, rotation and bullpen would be worth it now as well. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Arturo Moreno came on like a house on fire too and it didn't make a difference at all, even with the greatest player in the world.   Not excusing this front office but spending tons of money doesn't always lead to glory 

Doesn't guarantee it, but greatly increases the likelihood of succeeding. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Let's see what the sepnding is like after 5 years. That's when the tax advantages of buying the team end and the real owner shows up.

Cohen is a crook and a POS, but he's not going to suddenly cut down on spending at any point. This is who Steve Cohen - lavish to the point of absurdity. 

[Lillian]

When you analyze the decision to not make a qualifying offer, in light of Mr. Reinsdorf's aversion to giving pitchers long term contracts, you simply cannot justify it. This was at least a chance to retain him on a one year deal. It's just completely inexplicable. For that reason, I personally consider it one of the worst decisions this organization has made. Even trading Tatis Jr. could be explained by simply not recognizing the potential of a very young player, but failing to make the right decision, when given all of the "facts," is just inexcusable. It wouldn't matter if Rodon ended up with an injury and never pitched again, it was still a bad decision, because that is something that can't be predicted. Any pitcher can suffer injuries, at any time. If he was healthy at the time that decision was made, they had to at least make the QO. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Lillian

[Kyyle23]

49 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Not sure what this means. He's been completely dominant for a month of baseball. The Sox gave Kimbrel 16 million for a max of about 60-70 innings. Rodon is half way there already - 29 innings. If he gets to 60-70 innings, from a financial and impact standpoint, he very likely would have exceeded the QO value. 

One could argue that dominating for 1 months impact on the standings, rotation and bullpen would be worth it now as well. 

It is pretty clear what it means, I'm taking a wait and see approach.   

[Kyyle23]

59 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Doesn't guarantee it, but greatly increases the likelihood of succeeding. 

Did I say it does not.

[wegner]

This whole obsession with Rodon's starts this year is just getting to be too much....Do you think the Padres' fans followed every White Sox start by James Shields?  Unless they were looking for a good laugh that is.

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, wegner said:

This whole obsession with Rodon's starts this year is just getting to be too much....Do you think the Padres' fans followed every White Sox start by James Shields?  Unless they were looking for a good laugh that is.

This makes a lot more sense to me than the existence of a random thread here dedicated to Kelenic.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

17 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It is pretty clear what it means, I'm taking a wait and see approach.   

k

[Kyyle23]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

k

? 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Not sure what this means. He's been completely dominant for a month of baseball. The Sox gave Kimbrel 16 million for a max of about 60-70 innings. Rodon is half way there already - 29 innings. If he gets to 60-70 innings, from a financial and impact standpoint, he very likely would have exceeded the QO value. 

One could argue that dominating for 1 months impact on the standings, rotation and bullpen would be worth it now as well. 

The Sox might have picked up the option, but they paid for Kimbrel for like two months, and dumped him for their starting RF.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

It is pretty clear what it means, I'm taking a wait and see approach.   

When have you made a controversial prediction before?

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox might have picked up the option, but they paid for Kimbrel for like two months, and dumped him for their starting RF.

Which is perfectly fine if he produces a 3 fWAR like last year with Dodgers.  Not exactly on pace for that so far, though.  And he was a projected starting RFer out of position when acquired.  Unless they predicted Eloy's injury ahead of time...

Edited May 4, 2022 by caulfield12