Old Sock Drawer, ex Sox player discussion

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Nobody is surprised that Rodon is pitching this well. People will be surprised if he can do it for more than 140 innings.

^^^^^

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Nobody is surprised that Rodon is pitching this well. People will be surprised if he can do it for more than 140 innings.

He did it for 150 innings last year coming off 2 season of barely pitching. Now that he has those innings under his belt he could very well pitch a whole season. But that won't stop the Giants from taking care of him better than the Sox did.

Edited April 16, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Just imagine the Sox facing the Giants in the World Series with Rodon still pitching for the Giants. Then ask yourself "Is Hahn working for the Giants ? "

Why the hell would you ask that question !?! Ok No QO means no draft pick, which means teams would probably have offered Rodon less money ,so the Sox made it easier for any team to sign him for less money ,thereby ,making it harder for the Sox to sign him. Now to stretch this a little bit farther what if the draft pick the Sox might've got from the Giants turns into a really good player  !

Think it's the perfect Boras Era contract...he finishes in Top Ten of Cy Young, he bolts for a bigger contract and more years or equally likely gets it from SFG.  If he gets hurt or underperforms, they're not on the hook for a 4-6 year commitment that's crippling like Danks was for the Sox. Plus they have insurance on the contract that would pay roughly 60% back with a season or multi season injury.

[mmmmmbeeer]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:08 AM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

His first game stat line in 2021: 5 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 9 K, 95 pitches.

Looks awfully similar. Talk to me again in September/October and let’s see how he’s holding up. That’s when it matters most.

This kills me….we don’t really know if he was hurt last AUG/SEP or if they were simply giving him a chance to rest. 
 

What we DO know is he was hitting 99MPH in the first inning against HOU in game 4. And when he was pulled early, his velocity was still there. He gave up some baserunners and two runs, but it was equally likely he was rusty as it was he was still hurt.  And keep in mind, HOU whooped our staff’s ass in that entire series….Los’s performance wasn’t some awful outlier in those 4 games. 

Not resigning him, at a very reasonable cost, will come back to haunt us imo. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by mmmmmbeeer

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

7 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

This kills me….we don’t really know if he was hurt last AUG/SEP or if they were simply giving him a chance to rest. 
 

What we DO know is he was hitting 99MPH in the first inning against HOU in game 4. And when he was pulled early, his velocity was still there. He gave up some baserunners and two runs, but it was equally likely he was rusty as it was he was still hurt.  And keep in mind, HOU whooped our staff’s ass in that entire series….Los’s performance wasn’t some awful outlier in those 4 games. 

Not resigning him, at a very reasonable cost, will come back to haunt us imo. 

Way too early to say. He was great last spring too. Gotta see where he’s at come September. Sox need ALL their pitchers to step up in October or they aren’t going far in the playoffs. Hopefully Houston was just a bad matchup last season and they don’t get paired with an equally bad matchup this year.

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Way too early to say. He was great last spring too. Gotta see where he’s at come September. Sox need ALL their pitchers to step up in October or they aren’t going far in the playoffs. Hopefully Houston was just a bad matchup last season and they don’t get paired with an equally bad matchup this year.

Houston made it to five consecutive ALCS, after all…of course they’re a bad matchup, especially without home field advantage in your back pocket.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

10 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

We are rolling Velazquez, Kechuel, and Lambert out there and people are still defending the FO for not at least putting QO on Rodon. This is absolutely comical.

Also comical that people are still ripping the FO despite a 5-2 start while losing their top two starting pitchers and three starting position players to injury. All I heard this offseason was how little depth they have. Well, despite the injuries, they still look head and shoulders above Detroit and better than two potential playoff teams in Seattle and Tampa.

If guys like VV and Lambert are starting games in October then criticize the FO all you want but as long as it’s April and the Sox are still winning, who gives a shit.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Houston made it to five consecutive ALCS, after all…of course they’re a bad matchup, especially without home field advantage in your back pocket.

They steamrolled the Red Sox too. No idea how the Braves beat them. Apparently, the October version of the Braves was a bad matchup for the rest of MLB. Baseball can be weird like that.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

11 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Nobody is surprised that Rodon is pitching this well. People will be surprised if he can do it for more than 140 innings.

? 

for a team like the Sox where anything less than a WS appearance is a disappointment, it’s all about October these days. Need guys performing at a high level in October. That may be the one silver lining with the Lynn and Giolito early season injuries. Maybe it keeps them fresher come October.

[vilehoopster]

7 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

This kills me….we don’t really know if he was hurt last AUG/SEP or if they were simply giving him a chance to rest. 
 

What we DO know is he was hitting 99MPH in the first inning against HOU in game 4. And when he was pulled early, his velocity was still there. He gave up some baserunners and two runs, but it was equally likely he was rusty as it was he was still hurt.  And keep in mind, HOU whooped our staff’s ass in that entire series….Los’s performance wasn’t some awful outlier in those 4 games. 

Not resigning him, at a very reasonable cost, will come back to haunt us imo. 

This is some serious revisionist history here, not close to reality. I just checked the box score and play by play to make sure my memory wasn’t wrong about how bad Rodon was in this game. It wasn’t. He was terrible.

1st inning, he survives a lead off double and Houston doesn’t score. He got a couple strikeouts to strand man on 3rd. This must have been when he was throwing 99.

2nd inning, lead off single, an out later Tucker flies out to warning track. If he was throwing 99, Tucker was barely, barely missing. Can I claim Rodon was more lucky than good this inning.

Now things turn ugly: 3rd inning. Starts with a strikeout, that’s good. Than a hit batter, than a flyout, so two out. Now real ugly, walk and another walk, now Bases loaded. A double and two guys score and runners on 2nd and 3rd. Kopech comes in and gets last out stranding those two base runners. 

To portray that outing as “he gave up some baserunners and two runs” is totally inaccurate. His arm was cooked by the 3rd inning (a hbp, 2 walks, double) before he could get eight outs. The results clearly show that. I would argue his arm was cooked from the first few pitches and he very was lucky the first two innings. But whatever; but my point is that it not realistic to claim that Rodon had a healthy arm to pitch well in this game. 

 

[vilehoopster]

Let me start out with an immature "I told you so". So, here goes, about three weeks ago, I said on here, that if we shared an office or worked together and could do a handshake bet, I would bet and give ten to one odds that the Sox would not sign Conforto. Some people called me on that wanting to bet, and I said that it was not realistic (I had no desire) for me to do online bets, but that if we worked together, I would bet $10 or $20 dollars and give that 10 to 1 odds that the Sox wouldn't sign Conforto. I even commented that I if we made the bet, I would feel like I was stealing money from you; that how unlikely I thought it was that the Sox would sign him. Well, with the Pollack trade, I think I can say that I'm have been proven correct. 

Here's my next metaphorical bet. 

If I worked with you and someone gave me odds, five to one, you pay me $50 to my $10; I would bet you that Keuchel gets more wins this year than Rodon. ERA, Whip, I don't give a shit about that; Rodon can great in with stats and still not be pitching in August. But wins are accumulated over the entire season; those I would bet on. I believe that with his high cost, the Sox are going to put Keuchel out there every 5th day,or close to that, as long as they can, which I believe will be most of the season. Keuchel doesn't get hurt, as opposed to Rodon. I believe Keuchel will be pitching for the Sox in August into September. 

I would make that bet; hell, I'd make it at three to one odds. I don't feel as confident about this one (really it's a prediction, not a bet since I won't do it online), as I did about the Conforto one, but I would take that bet, certainly I would take it at five to one. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Let me start out with an immature "I told you so". So, here goes, about three weeks ago, I said on here, that if we shared an office or worked together and could do a handshake bet, I would bet and give ten to one odds that the Sox would not sign Conforto. Some people called me on that wanting to bet, and I said that it was not realistic (I had no desire) for me to do online bets, but that if we worked together, I would bet $10 or $20 dollars and give that 10 to 1 odds that the Sox wouldn't sign Conforto. I even commented that I if we made the bet, I would feel like I was stealing money from you; that how unlikely I thought it was that the Sox would sign him. Well, with the Pollack trade, I think I can say that I'm have been proven correct. 

Here's my next metaphorical bet. 

If I worked with you and someone gave me odds, five to one, you pay me $50 to my $10; I would bet you that Keuchel gets more wins this year than Rodon. ERA, Whip, I don't give a shit about that; Rodon can great in with stats and still not be pitching in August. But wins are accumulated over the entire season; those I would bet on. I believe that with his high cost, the Sox are going to put Keuchel out there every 5th day,or close to that, as long as they can, which I believe will be most of the season. Keuchel doesn't get hurt, as opposed to Rodon. I believe Keuchel will be pitching for the Sox in August into September. 

I would make that bet; hell, I'd make it at three to one odds. I don't feel as confident about this one (really it's a prediction, not a bet since I won't do it online), as I did about the Conforto one, but I would take that bet, certainly I would take it at five to one. 

Considering Keuchel only had 4 less wins last season despite a terrible year, I don’t think this is a stretch at all. Wouldn’t surprise me either. I just prefer not to see him starting a game in October and, if the top 4 are healthy, he shouldn’t. Lynn, Giolito, Cease, and Kopech should be extremely formidable unless they run into a team like Houston from last year that just crushes righties.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Also comical that people are still ripping the FO despite a 5-2 start while losing their top two starting pitchers and three starting position players to injury. All I heard this offseason was how little depth they have. Well, despite the injuries, they still look head and shoulders above Detroit and better than two potential playoff teams in Seattle and Tampa.

If guys like VV and Lambert are starting games in October then criticize the FO all you want but as long as it’s April and the Sox are still winning, who gives a shit.

Top 3 starting pitchers Rodon, Lynn and Giolito , which just goes to show you that any pitcher can get hurt but what you want to do is have more good pitchers to overcome one or 2 guys going down.

What's comical is you shilling for the front office after a week of games when injury problems and starting pitching depth typically manifests over a longer period of time . Thrilled about having a good early record. Not thrilled about the starting pitching depth and apparently neither are the Sox since they did make attempts to improve the depth if the rumors about Manaea were true.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Let me start out with an immature "I told you so". So, here goes, about three weeks ago, I said on here, that if we shared an office or worked together and could do a handshake bet, I would bet and give ten to one odds that the Sox would not sign Conforto. Some people called me on that wanting to bet, and I said that it was not realistic (I had no desire) for me to do online bets, but that if we worked together, I would bet $10 or $20 dollars and give that 10 to 1 odds that the Sox wouldn't sign Conforto. I even commented that I if we made the bet, I would feel like I was stealing money from you; that how unlikely I thought it was that the Sox would sign him. Well, with the Pollack trade, I think I can say that I'm have been proven correct. 

Here's my next metaphorical bet. 

If I worked with you and someone gave me odds, five to one, you pay me $50 to my $10; I would bet you that Keuchel gets more wins this year than Rodon. ERA, Whip, I don't give a shit about that; Rodon can great in with stats and still not be pitching in August. But wins are accumulated over the entire season; those I would bet on. I believe that with his high cost, the Sox are going to put Keuchel out there every 5th day,or close to that, as long as they can, which I believe will be most of the season. Keuchel doesn't get hurt, as opposed to Rodon. I believe Keuchel will be pitching for the Sox in August into September. 

I would make that bet; hell, I'd make it at three to one odds. I don't feel as confident about this one (really it's a prediction, not a bet since I won't do it online), as I did about the Conforto one, but I would take that bet, certainly I would take it at five to one. 

I actually said the same thing about Conforto pretty early in the off season.

But I will have to disagree about Rodon. Sometimes you have to take a gamble and the gamble on Rodon was not overly expensive. A real gamble is signing a great 29 yr old pitcher to a 6 yr $150M contract except there wasn't a great 29 yr old pitcher available except Rodon who because of his injury history was available. You rarely have an opportunity to nab a great player for so cheap .  My reasoning always has been look what he did last year when he hardly pitched at all the previous 2 years . And now that he has those 150 innings under his belt, with better mechanics and a better idea of who he is , imagine him at near full strength.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Top 3 starting pitchers Rodon, Lynn and Giolito , which just goes to show you that any pitcher can get hurt but what you want to do is have more good pitchers to overcome one or 2 guys going down.

What's comical is you shilling for the front office after a week of games when injury problems and starting pitching depth typically manifests over a longer period of time . Thrilled about having a good early record. Not thrilled about the starting pitching depth and apparently neither are the Sox since they did make attempts to improve the depth if the rumors about Manaea were true.

lol. If the Sox were 2-5 instead of 5-2, the haters would be out in FULL force. Think they’d give them the team a pass since it’s only a “week of games”?

[mmmmmbeeer]

3 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

This is some serious revisionist history here, not close to reality. I just checked the box score and play by play to make sure my memory wasn’t wrong about how bad Rodon was in this game. It wasn’t. He was terrible.

1st inning, he survives a lead off double and Houston doesn’t score. He got a couple strikeouts to strand man on 3rd. This must have been when he was throwing 99.

2nd inning, lead off single, an out later Tucker flies out to warning track. If he was throwing 99, Tucker was barely, barely missing. Can I claim Rodon was more lucky than good this inning.

Now things turn ugly: 3rd inning. Starts with a strikeout, that’s good. Than a hit batter, than a flyout, so two out. Now real ugly, walk and another walk, now Bases loaded. A double and two guys score and runners on 2nd and 3rd. Kopech comes in and gets last out stranding those two base runners. 

To portray that outing as “he gave up some baserunners and two runs” is totally inaccurate. His arm was cooked by the 3rd inning (a hbp, 2 walks, double) before he could get eight outs. The results clearly show that. I would argue his arm was cooked from the first few pitches and he very was lucky the first two innings. But whatever; but my point is that it not realistic to claim that Rodon had a healthy arm to pitch well in this game. 

 

Then I guess our entire staff was hurt?  
 

Lynn went an inning longer than Los but with a much worse line…3.2ip, 6 hits, 2 walks, and 5 earnies

Gio…4.1ip, 3 hits, 5 walks, and 4 ER. 
 

Blaming health instead of rust combined with a hot Astros lineup is pure speculation. The fact SF looked at his health and committed money to him should tell you all you need to know. He threw 135 innings last season before supposedly “breaking down”. It’s not unreasonable to think he’ll be able to handle 155-175 this season. 
 

Letting Los go, after a really smart decision to bring him back, will go down as one of Rick’s worst decisions as GM. 
 

ETA: It’s with adding that this was the second season in a row the Sox put Los in a position to fail. In 2020, fresh off extended injury, they bring him out of the pen (for the first time in his entire career) in an elimination game. In 2021, they bring him in to start an elimination game after not having pitched for over a month. It’s tough enough to pitch in MLB, tougher still when you’ve been out for a while, and immeasurably tougher to do so in a fucking elimination playoff game where there’s ZERO room for error. Sox fucked him, plain and simple. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by mmmmmbeeer

[thxfrthmmrs]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:30 AM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Also comical that people are still ripping the FO despite a 5-2 start while losing their top two starting pitchers and three starting position players to injury. All I heard this offseason was how little depth they have. Well, despite the injuries, they still look head and shoulders above Detroit and better than two potential playoff teams in Seattle and Tampa.

If guys like VV and Lambert are starting games in October then criticize the FO all you want but as long as it’s April and the Sox are still winning, who gives a shit.

What’s this depth you speaking of? There is a huge difference between depth and quality depth. You really think they could keep winning games with only 2 starters hitting over .250 and 3/5 of the rotation that has no business starting for a contending team? Get a reality check.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

22 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

What’s this depth you speaking of? There is a huge difference between depth and quality depth. You really think they could keep winning games with only 2 starters hitting over .250 and 3/5 of the rotation that has no business starting for a contending team? Get a reality check.

Meh. Even with the injuries, they’re still better than any other ALC team. 

[Snopek]

21 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Meh. Even with the injuries, they’re still better than any other ALC team. 

That’s a pretty low bar, no?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

12 minutes ago, Snopek said:

That’s a pretty low bar, no?

Just get in baby. Then anything can happen…

[Snopek]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Just get in baby. Then anything can happen…

True.

But this is a team with championship aspirations, not some feel good story underdog.

It’s a waaaaaay too passive philosophy for my liking ?‍♂️

[Soxfest]

Let’s see how his arm is by August 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Soxfest

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 hours ago, Snopek said:

True.

But this is a team with championship aspirations, not some feel good story underdog.

It’s a waaaaaay too passive philosophy for my liking ?‍♂️

What did the best regular season record in the league get the Giants last season? Or how about Tampa, the team with the best record in the AL?

[Snopek]

36 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

What did the best regular season record in the league get the Giants last season? Or how about Tampa, the team with the best record in the AL?

Yeah, the playoffs being somewhat of a crapshoot is not breaking news. 

I’d rather see the team that spent years losing on purpose in order to have a window of contention put themselves in the best possible position to succeed, rather than cross their fingers and hope for the best like some fringe contender.

But I guess that’s just me!

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

What did the best regular season record in the league get the Giants last season? Or how about Tampa, the team with the best record in the AL?

The Rays were at least in the World Series the previous year with a bottom tier payroll...so there's that.