2011 Adam Dunn/NY Times >>> 2022 Yasmani Grandal

[caulfield12]

.159 vs. .190 BA  Grandal wins

.292 + .277=.569 Dunn wins

.286 + .232=.519 Grandal loses

 

36 vs. 12 runs (all prorated) Dunn wins handily

79 vs. 66 hits,    Grandal wins

6 vs. 16 doubles,   Dunn wins

4 vs. 11 homers,    Dunn wins

37 vs. 42 RBI’s,    Dunn wins

57 vs. 75 walks,   Dunn wins

116 vs. 177 k’s,    Grandal wins

10 vs. 27 XBH’s,    Dunn wins

 

Less than 1 1/2 seasons of productivity vs. 2 debacles/disasters?

That got KW kicked up to the front office as a reward…

 

Salary, $12,000,000 Dunn vs. $18,250,000 Grandal

60% of Guardians’ entire payroll to Grandal/Keuchel ($36 vs. $60 million), and not counting Leury, Kelly, VV, Pollock, Lynn, Moncada, Jimenez, Hendriks, etc.

Edited August 5, 2022 by caulfield12

[South Side Hit Men]

No, it's not even close, and what does the NYT have to do with anything?

Adam Dunn had the 13th worst batter season in 152 years of baseball.

Adam Dunn -2.9 fWAR 122 G vs. Yasmani "Elite" Grandal -0.6 fWAR 59 G

Worst Batter Single Seasons in MLB History 1871-2022 (lowest fWAR each season):

#	Season	Name	Team	G	PA	HR	R	RBI	SB	BB%	K%	ISO	BABIP	AVG	OBP	SLG	wOBA	xwOBA	wRC+	BsR	Off	Def	WAR
12345678910...   Page size:  95443 items in 3182 pages
1	1933	Jim Levey	SLB	141	567	2	43	36	4	4.6%	12.0%	.045	.220	.195	.237	.240	.227		23	-1.7	-60.1	0.5	-4.0
2	1977	Jerry Royster	ATL	140	491	6	64	28	28	7.7%	13.6%	.072	.241	.216	.278	.288	.258		45	1.9	-31.1	-21.9	-3.8
3	1930	Tommy Thevenow	PHI	156	624	0	57	78	1	3.7%	4.2%	.040	.300	.286	.316	.326	.297		48	0.2	-51.0	-10.4	-3.6
4	2008	Ryan Doumit	PIT	116	465	15	71	69	2	4.9%	11.8%	.183	.333	.318	.357	.501	.369		123	-1.8	11.8	-60.4	-3.4
5	1931	Jim Levey	SLB	139	540	5	53	38	13	6.5%	15.4%	.076	.241	.209	.264	.285	.259		40	-1.0	-44.9	-8.4	-3.3
6	1886	Jim Lillie	KCC	114	427	0	37	22	13	2.6%	18.7%	.022	.217	.175	.197	.197	.190		31	0.1	-44.6	-10.0	-3.2
7	1985	George Wright	TEX	109	395	2	21	18	4	6.3%	12.4%	.052	.213	.190	.241	.242	.217		28	-2.1	-36.1	-7.7	-3.2
8	1899	Sport McAllister	CLE	113	451	1	29	31	5	4.2%		.060		.237	.273	.297	.275		57	-1.8	-29.7	-21.9	-3.2
9	1999	Cristian Guzman	MIN	131	456	1	47	26	9	4.8%	19.7%	.050	.282	.226	.267	.276	.247		34	-1.4	-41.3	-7.4	-3.1
10	1993	David McCarty	MIN	98	371	2	36	21	2	5.1%	21.6%	.071	.272	.214	.257	.286	.247		43	-2.0	-27.8	-14.7	-3.1
11	1997	Jose Guillen	PIT	143	526	14	58	70	1	3.2%	16.7%	.145	.298	.267	.300	.412	.312		82	-0.6	-12.9	-34.7	-3.1
12	2002	Neifi Perez	KCR	145	585	3	65	37	8	3.4%	9.1%	.067	.254	.236	.260	.303	.247		39	0.7	-43.6	-5.4	-2.9
13	2011	Adam Dunn	CHW	122	496	11	36	42	0	15.1%	35.7%	.118	.240	.159	.292	.277	.268		60	-5.4	-28.3	-15.5	-2.9

[kitekrazy]

Sox don't have good luck with veteran NL players.  

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

No, it's not even close, and what does the NYT have to do with anything?

Adam Dunn had the 13th worst batter season in 152 years of baseball.

Adam Dunn -2.9 fWAR 122 G vs. Yasmani "Elite" Grandal -0.6 fWAR 59 G

Worst Batter Single Seasons in MLB History 1871-2022 (lowest fWAR each season?

#	Season	Name	Team	G	PA	HR	R	RBI	SB	BB%	K%	ISO	BABIP	AVG	OBP	SLG	wOBA	xwOBA	wRC+	BsR	Off	Def	WAR
12345678910...   Page size:  95443 items in 3182 pages
1	1933	Jim Levey	SLB	141	567	2	43	36	4	4.6%	12.0%	.045	.220	.195	.237	.240	.227		23	-1.7	-60.1	0.5	-4.0
2	1977	Jerry Royster	ATL	140	491	6	64	28	28	7.7%	13.6%	.072	.241	.216	.278	.288	.258		45	1.9	-31.1	-21.9	-3.8
3	1930	Tommy Thevenow	PHI	156	624	0	57	78	1	3.7%	4.2%	.040	.300	.286	.316	.326	.297		48	0.2	-51.0	-10.4	-3.6
4	2008	Ryan Doumit	PIT	116	465	15	71	69	2	4.9%	11.8%	.183	.333	.318	.357	.501	.369		123	-1.8	11.8	-60.4	-3.4
5	1931	Jim Levey	SLB	139	540	5	53	38	13	6.5%	15.4%	.076	.241	.209	.264	.285	.259		40	-1.0	-44.9	-8.4	-3.3
6	1886	Jim Lillie	KCC	114	427	0	37	22	13	2.6%	18.7%	.022	.217	.175	.197	.197	.190		31	0.1	-44.6	-10.0	-3.2
7	1985	George Wright	TEX	109	395	2	21	18	4	6.3%	12.4%	.052	.213	.190	.241	.242	.217		28	-2.1	-36.1	-7.7	-3.2
8	1899	Sport McAllister	CLE	113	451	1	29	31	5	4.2%		.060		.237	.273	.297	.275		57	-1.8	-29.7	-21.9	-3.2
9	1999	Cristian Guzman	MIN	131	456	1	47	26	9	4.8%	19.7%	.050	.282	.226	.267	.276	.247		34	-1.4	-41.3	-7.4	-3.1
10	1993	David McCarty	MIN	98	371	2	36	21	2	5.1%	21.6%	.071	.272	.214	.257	.286	.247		43	-2.0	-27.8	-14.7	-3.1
11	1997	Jose Guillen	PIT	143	526	14	58	70	1	3.2%	16.7%	.145	.298	.267	.300	.412	.312		82	-0.6	-12.9	-34.7	-3.1
12	2002	Neifi Perez	KCR	145	585	3	65	37	8	3.4%	9.1%	.067	.254	.236	.260	.303	.247		39	0.7	-43.6	-5.4	-2.9
13	2011	Adam Dunn	CHW	122	496	11	36	42	0	15.1%	35.7%	.118	.240	.159	.292	.277	.268		60	-5.4	-28.3	-15.5	-2.9

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/sports/baseball/dunn-a-mighty-free-agent-has-struck-out-with-the-white-sox.html

Well, first of all you need to double Grandal’s negative fWAR to account for differential in games played…

Then, if you take out the positional bonuses for catcher vs. DH, it turns out to be very even…not to mention he’s (Grandal) basically being paid 2-3x as much for his numbers since only 211 at-bats.

For example, $1.825 million per extra base hit.

 

That’s the net worth of the average American in around the Top 3-4%…for lifetime wealth accumulation.

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by caulfield12

[Spicy gar]

54 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/sports/baseball/dunn-a-mighty-free-agent-has-struck-out-with-the-white-sox.html

Well, first of all you need to double Grandal’s negative fWAR to account for differential in games played…

Then, if you take out the positional bonuses for catcher vs. DH, it turns out to be very even.

 

Yes take out all the "bonus" aka value of being a cather and they are the same. It's very clear something is wrong with Grandals lower half. If he broke down that quickly it sucks. He's no Adam Dunn.

[caulfield12]

If we do wRC+, we get Leury and Grandal as two of the ten worst in baseball (280).

#272, Grandal

#276, Leury

 

#266 Jackie Bradley, Jr.

#258 Moncada

#235 Pollock

#234 Cody Bellinger

#225 Engel

OPS is virtually identical…and, fwiw, Reese McGuire clocks in as more than 45% below average for his part.

Six Sox players this year who have been particularly awful and sabotaged the rebuild in different ways…but there are four chief culprits as we know, and Leury simply can’t bench himself.

Edited August 5, 2022 by caulfield12

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/sports/baseball/dunn-a-mighty-free-agent-has-struck-out-with-the-white-sox.html

Well, first of all you need to double Grandal’s negative fWAR to account for differential in games played…

Then, if you take out the positional bonuses for catcher vs. DH, it turns out to be very even…not to mention he’s (Grandal) basically being paid 2-3x as much for his numbers since only 211 at-bats.

For example, $1.825 million per extra base hit.

 

That’s the net worth of the average American in around the Top 3-4%…for lifetime wealth accumulation.

 

Making your suggested adjustments renders WAR completely worthless. A 1B/DH is fungible and can be easily found and fielded for the ML minimum or something close, unless you are talking a 4-5 WAR player. No further proof is the fact more than half of the White Sox batter roster is composed of 1B/DH.

I have been the most vocal on the board about the overpay over Grandal's deal since Day One (primary concern was length for a 30-something catcher, a length no other team considered matching). That said, he is just an injured player who like a half dozen other White Sox.

As bad as Grandal has been, there are literally tens of thousands of single seasons played in the history of baseball that this version of Grandal is superior to. Adam Done can say that about 12 seasons across 150 years, whittled down further by the same player appearing twice (Great Depression era Jim Levey), and two more from the 19th century.

There are only a few humans in the history of mankind who have played professional baseball worse than 2011 Adam Dunn. No favorable comparison of Dunn over any living or future White Sox should ever be uttered.

[caulfield12]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kelenja01.shtml

Kelenic at 495 ops. Menechino will fix him.  Or f#%k him.

Edited August 5, 2022 by caulfield12

[Tnetennba]

2011 Adam Dunn was one of the single most abysmal seasons ever for an everyday player.  

Grandal is likely cooked and the remainder of his contract looks awful, but he’s no 2011 Adam Dunn.  Dunn had some level of productivity left in the bad after 2011 while injury looks to have robbed Yaz of whatever he had left.  It’s not a fair comparison to make, and I hold no fondness whatsoever for either player.  

[Balta1701]

See everyone you’re missing the math. He’s in fact dividing the 2011 Adam Dunn by the New York Times. If we take the limit as the value of the times goes to 0, the value of the left hand side goes to infinity regardless of the value of Adam Dunn’s 2011 season, making the greater than expression true.

[CentralChamps21]

The worst thing about this is it just fuels JR's arguments against giving start players contracts longer than 3 years, completely ignoring that it's much more about what type of player you're offering those years to.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

See everyone you’re missing the math. He’s in fact dividing the 2011 Adam Dunn by the New York Times. If we take the limit as the value of the times goes to 0, the value of the left hand side goes to infinity regardless of the value of Adam Dunn’s 2011 season, making the greater than expression true.

Great, math jokes.

[Eminor3rd]

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/sports/baseball/dunn-a-mighty-free-agent-has-struck-out-with-the-white-sox.html

Well, first of all you need to double Grandal’s negative fWAR to account for differential in games played…

Then, if you take out the positional bonuses for catcher vs. DH, it turns out to be very even…not to mention he’s (Grandal) basically being paid 2-3x as much for his numbers since only 211 at-bats.

For example, $1.825 million per extra base hit.

 

That’s the net worth of the average American in around the Top 3-4%…for lifetime wealth accumulation.

 

Is THIS post a math joke?

[caulfield12]

55 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

The worst thing about this is it just fuels JR's arguments against giving start players contracts longer than 3 years, completely ignoring that it's much more about what type of player you're offering those years to.

And there you have it.

John Danks, Dunn, Grandal, Hendriks…there’s always going to that built-in excuse about adding one more year, like Machado and then the reported Giolito extensions as well.

Think back to not paying Maggio and C-Lee after 2004…or not paying Buehrle in 2011.

Otherwise, we’re almost always limited to three years, like Keuchel and Lynn.  Or at least “almost always,” with few exceptions.  The other remarkable one would be Konerko, for obvious, well-covered reasons.

 

You have all the internal extensions, but all those except for Moncada are not threatening to blow the budget sky high.

So, if you think quite carefully, you can see why Giolito and Tim Anderson will both be gone eventually.

 

Out of those five bolded names, how many would JR, Hahn and KW undo if they could?

Konerko would be the only one to stand…in the same way JR’s only choice for manager could be LaRussa.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Is THIS post a math joke?

It’s a deliberate exaggeration to provoke.

But that’s how this organization ended up throwing out McGuire’s fWAR and 45% below average hitting for a Seby patented inevitable regression accompanied by poor defense and game calling.

It’s how we disregarded Brian Anderson’s great defense/lousy hitting combination for Mackowiak in 2006.

(Well, the fact that Ozzie hated Anderson personally didn’t help him much.)

The same front office keeps repeating the same mistakes decades later.

 

Did we also not learn how not to overspend on bullpens from 2000-2008?  Not really, The Koch Experience wasn’t enough, because we went Dotel/Linebrink then Robertson then REALLY went insane the last two years.  And here we are now.  Stuck in the middle with you.