caulfield12 Posted August 8, 2022 Author Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) It's not as simple as saying, 'This is what's going to happen in Year 1 and Year 2.' That's bull. If you make enough good decisions, three-year plans turn into two-year plans and five-year plans turn into three-year plans. If you make bad decisions, 10-year plans turn into no plan." Dayton Moore June 6, 2006 "I'm not talking about getting to .500, I'm talking about winning the World Series when I say eight to 10 years." Dayton Moore May 20, 2009 "Obviously, the ultimate goal is a world championship. But how many winning seasons have we had in the last 20 years? Two? We have to overcome that hurdle first and then move past it, and we're trying to do it as quickly as possible." Dayton Moore July 18, 2013 https://www.royalsreview.com/2015/11/7/9687928/the-story-of-the-2015-kansas-city-royals-prologue Edited August 8, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 8, 2022 Author Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) Ultimately with KC it was hitting on the Gordon Hosmer Moustakas draft picks in the first round, the Zack Greinke trade to Milwaukee and the Shields trade...culminating with finishing moves for Zobrist and Cueto. Plus the scouting department for finding Salvador Perez. That and assembling the very best bullpen in history that pretty much ushered in the modern era of 5-6 inning starters. Then contact hitting, solid fundamentals, defense and the combination of Dyson and Gore to almost automatically get runners in scoring position in the late innings in close games. The death of Yordano Ventura and health/payroll restrictions quickly led to a demise in 2016-17... Of course, there were numerous times from 2006 - 2013 when KC fans and the local press lost their belief in the rebuild. It felt like Rany's prediction from 2009 was coming to pass: But in practice, I think that years from now we will look at the Yuniesky Betancourt trade the way we look at the Neifi Perez trade. Just as the trade for Perez signaled the death knell for the Allard Baird era – even though it would take years for the Royals to finally put the era out of its misery and make a change at the top – I think that the trade for Betancourt signals the point at which Dayton Moore’s tenure as GM becomes untenable. It will probably be at least a few years before the Glass family sends Moore packing, but I no longer have any expectation that the Royals will ever win anything under the current administration. Edited August 8, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) https://www.truebluela.com/2014/7/21/5921421/keibert-ruiz-dodgers-venezuela-catcher Keibert Ruiz, key part of Scherzer/Turner deal $140k signing bonus out of Venezuela Yordan Alvarez, $2 million bonus, traded for reliever Josh Fields Oneil Cruz signed with the Los Angeles Dodgers in July 2015 as an international free agent for a $950,000 signing bonus. Cruz made his professional debut in 2016 with DSL Dodgers 1, batting . 294 with 23 RBIs in 55 games. He began the 2017 season with the Great Lakes Loons. Traded to the Pirates for reliever Tony Watson. Some other prospects that they did give up that turned out to have some potential include Jharel Cotton (Twins), Frankie Montas, Devin Smeltzer (Twins) and Yusniel Diaz (Orioles). Pitcher Josiah Gray was the other key aspect of Scherzer/Turner deal. On December 21, 2018, the Reds traded Gray, along with Jeter Downs and Homer Bailey, to the Los Angeles Dodgers in exchange for Matt Kemp, Yasiel Puig, Alex Wood, Kyle Farmer and cash considerations. Interesting that Alex Wood arguably turned out to be the best of that group. Just another spare starter in LA...rotation member for SFG historic 2021 season. Edited August 9, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 On 8/8/2022 at 6:07 AM, caulfield12 said: One is most Sox players other than Abreu and Harrison don’t seem to have that burning fire to be in the lineup day in and day out. Why is that? Particularly Moncada and Robert…but this team just seems so passive? Have guys like Pollock and Vaughn just learned to accept their inconsistent playing time? Do they even bother talking to the coaching staff or LaRussa? Have a hard time seeing any pushback happening from players…for way too many reasons. If you're a 25yo kid and had LaRussa as your manager, how comfortable would you be approaching him to tell him you need to be in the lineup? You understand, by doing that, you're insinuating that the HOF baseball person is wrong, right? Our manager is older than most of these guys' grandfathers. Baseball player or not, confronting old men to tell them they're wrong is a pretty difficult task. We can look at other orgs, we can blame RH, we can blame the training staff...whatever...it's all superfluous nonsense. There is absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that this entire rebuild was torpedoed the moment Tony LaRussa was given the reins. Menechino is still around because of TLR. Leury was extended three years because of TLR. There's no fire in that dugout or locker room because of TLR. Guys aren't playing with swagger and emotion because of TLR (he might yell at them or blast them in the press). We can perform as many post-mortems as we want on this team and the answer will ALWAYS come back to Tony LaRussa. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 What's better Chicago Tin Men for having no heart? Chicago Scarecrow's for having no brains ? Chicago Cowardly Lions for having no courage ? Chicago Wizards for being charlatans ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said: If you're a 25yo kid and had LaRussa as your manager, how comfortable would you be approaching him to tell him you need to be in the lineup? You understand, by doing that, you're insinuating that the HOF baseball person is wrong, right? Our manager is older than most of these guys' grandfathers. Baseball player or not, confronting old men to tell them they're wrong is a pretty difficult task. We can look at other orgs, we can blame RH, we can blame the training staff...whatever...it's all superfluous nonsense. There is absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that this entire rebuild was torpedoed the moment Tony LaRussa was given the reins. Menechino is still around because of TLR. Leury was extended three years because of TLR. There's no fire in that dugout or locker room because of TLR. Guys aren't playing with swagger and emotion because of TLR (he might yell at them or blast them in the press). We can perform as many post-mortems as we want on this team and the answer will ALWAYS come back to Tony LaRussa. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Jerry And I can hardly believe KW agrees with the Menechino loyalty program, either. Exact opposite of how the best Sox teams in last 25 years or so were constructed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) On 8/8/2022 at 5:50 PM, JoshPR said: Thinking how many of the Sox first round picks during the rebuild are actually gonna contribute to the team? 1 maybe 2. Vaughn and maybe Crochet? I would love to know what players got drafted in all these drafts that are helping to the team who drafted them or another. While Fulmer, Burdi, and others are pretty much out of the game Sox have 8, count 'em, 8 former first round picks on the 40-man roster. Edited August 10, 2022 by oldsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, oldsox said: Sox have 8, count 'em, 8 former first round picks on the 40-man roster. Anderson, Burger, Crochet, Vaughn Giolito, Pollock, Lance Lynn (39th pick), Kopech But none before Chris Sale’s draft year still playing. 2014-16, 2018…nothing to show for those four years, and the 2017 pick was Burger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 11 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said: If you're a 25yo kid and had LaRussa as your manager, how comfortable would you be approaching him to tell him you need to be in the lineup? You understand, by doing that, you're insinuating that the HOF baseball person is wrong, right? Our manager is older than most of these guys' grandfathers. Baseball player or not, confronting old men to tell them they're wrong is a pretty difficult task. We can look at other orgs, we can blame RH, we can blame the training staff...whatever...it's all superfluous nonsense. There is absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that this entire rebuild was torpedoed the moment Tony LaRussa was given the reins. Menechino is still around because of TLR. Leury was extended three years because of TLR. There's no fire in that dugout or locker room because of TLR. Guys aren't playing with swagger and emotion because of TLR (he might yell at them or blast them in the press). We can perform as many post-mortems as we want on this team and the answer will ALWAYS come back to Tony LaRussa. People call me crazy but I firmly believe that this team would be farther along if Rick Renteria were still the manager. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Anderson, Burger, Crochet, Vaughn Giolito, Pollock, Lance Lynn (39th pick), Kopech But none before Chris Sale’s draft year still playing. 2014-16, 2018…nothing to show for those four years, and the 2017 pick was Burger Yes, and there were plenty of ways better 2+ player options for $30ish M this and next year for the two in bold. (I thought the trade for Dunning was fine after initial concerns the day of the trade, but may have been wrong on that front. Opposed the July extension, thought it was smart to see how the rest of the year played out. Kopech and Giolito were acquired when Hahn dumped everything he inherited from Kenny. White Sox 2022 Roster Construction D (9) Hahn Free Agent or Waiver (Ruiz) Acquisitions: Crick; Cueto; Grandal; Graveman; Harrison; Hendriks; Kelly; Keuchel; Ruiz; Velasquez. C (8) White Sox Top Five Round Draft Picks: Anderson; Bummer; Burger; Crochet; Lambert; Sheets; Stiever; Vaughn B (8) White Sox Round (6th +) Draft Picks: Banks; Engel; Foster; Gonzalez; Martin; Mendick; Sousa; Zavala A (6) Hahn Tanking Acquisitions: Cease, Giolito; Jimenez; Kopech; Lopez; Moncada D (5) Hahn Trade Acquisitions: Diekman; Haseley; Garcia; Lynn; Pollock A (3) Paddy International Acquisitions: Abreu; Robert; Sosa Edited August 10, 2022 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 3 hours ago, oldsox said: Sox have 8, count 'em, 8 former first round picks on the 40-man roster. Can you please name the 8? Vaughn, Anderson, burger annnddd??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Anderson, Burger, Crochet, Vaughn Giolito, Pollock, Lance Lynn (39th pick), Kopech But none before Chris Sale’s draft year still playing. 2014-16, 2018…nothing to show for those four years, and the 2017 pick was Burger Add in Haseley believe it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 44 minutes ago, JoshPR said: Can you please name the 8? Vaughn, Anderson, burger annnddd??? Haseley, Kopech, Giolito, Pollock, Crochett..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, oldsox said: Haseley, Kopech, Giolito, Pollock, Crochett..... Did not include Lynn, who was a supplemental pick, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, oldsox said: Haseley, Kopech, Giolito, Pollock, Crochett..... Oops. Last year and this year we had Tim Beckham 1-1 at Charlotte. Cornelius Randolph/Phillies another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, oldsox said: Add in Haseley believe it or not. Very high, top ten first rounder…8th overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoeLessRob Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 5 hours ago, oldsox said: Haseley, Kopech, Giolito, Pollock, Crochett..... Ok I said in my post Sox first round picks. Drafted by the Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 My accountability ranking 1. Tony 2. Players (slumping, declining, out of position, misused) 3. JR Distant 4. Hahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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