Sox won't fire TLR, but would reassign him after season

[The Kids Can Play]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:50 AM, Dominikk85 said:

Start a soxtalk gofundme so soxtalk can buy the sox. Maybe you can get elon to donate 700 mil:). 

 

Free agent singings, draft picks and trades will be decided via a poll. 

Screw Musk donating money for the Sox cause. Why couldn't he just buy the damn team from Jerry. The latest Forbes White Sox value is listed as 1.76 billion. Musk has a net worth of 272 billion. He could afford to overpay for it and make it worthwhile for the loser Reinsdorf to sell. How great would that be if the Sox were owned by someone who actually wasn't cheap and had ridiculous liquid billions. Imagine an owner who actually wants to spend the money to build a championship team at any cost.

So f'ing sad for Sox fans we have to wait until Jerry either dies or is mentally incapable of running the team, when he has must be given 24-7 dementia care at his home.

[DoUEvenShift]

1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Screw Musk donating money for the Sox cause. Why couldn't he just buy the damn team from Jerry. The latest Forbes White Sox value is listed as 1.76 billion. Musk has a net worth of 272 billion. He could afford to overpay for it and make it worthwhile for the loser Reinsdorf to sell. How great would that be if the Sox were owned by someone who actually wasn't cheap and had ridiculous liquid billions. Imagine an owner who actually wants to spend the money to build a championship team at any cost.

So f'ing sad for Sox fans we have to wait until Jerry either dies or is mentally incapable of running the team, when he has must be given 24-7 dementia care at his home.

2032 Crosstown Classic on Mars

[joejoesox]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:44 PM, caulfield12 said:

maybe aboriginal tribes...what's the special category for those groups who have never had any him an contact previously?

god damn it Caulfield

[Big Hurtin]

49 minutes ago, shago said:

Worst case scenario -- miss the playoffs ... anything can happen in October, with or without the village idiot in the dugout

Read what I wrote again

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, shago said:

Worst case scenario -- miss the playoffs ... anything can happen in October, with or without the village idiot in the dugout

I mean you take the playoffs every single time.  Post season play is precious.  Who knows if it happens again any time soon and you miss your final chance.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, joesaiditstrue said:

god damn it Caulfield

oops "human contact" missing...

[caulfield12]

40 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I mean you take the playoffs every single time.  Post season play is precious.  Who knows if it happens again any time soon and you miss your final chance.

See 2008 through "2020 extended playoff eligibility Covid anomaly year"

[Green Line]

29 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

See 2008 through "2020 extended playoff eligibility Covid anomaly year"

Sox would have made it in 2020 without the expanded field anyway.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Green Line said:

Sox would have made it in 2020 without the expanded field anyway.

Sure but quite a few don't consider the sixty game WS series winner as legit, or individual awards. Asterisk season***.  The irony being that's the one year LA actually won despite being arguably the best MLB team of the decade.  Either LA or HOU.

[Lip Man 1]

I know Nightengale has been beating this drum for the last few months and he is very close to JR and Kenny. He is actually one of the few media-types that JR has conversations with.

But I've also seen where, regarding the White Sox, he's been wrong an awful lot...sort of the national version of Bruce Levine.

I recently expressed my feelings to some of the folks I know in the Sox front office. I said that if a change is made it can't just be TLR, JR needs to do a housecleaning a la what John Allyn did in September 1970 because the Sox have lost credibility with a large segment of the fan base.

I've know TLR since the early 80's...have interviewed him multiple times and in those in-depth conversations, I've come away with how sharp, how brilliant this guy was baseball-wise.

But this is not the same guy anymore. The bizarre decisions, the stumbling/mumbling press conferences, the falling asleep (or at least looking like he's very tired) in the dugout.

It's hurting this team but he's not the only issue. 

Hahn is going on year 10 as G.M. and his track record (even when the Sox weren't rebuilding) is very poor. The numbers don't lie.

He's wasted millions and millions of dollars on guys I consider retreads, has-been's, guys on the down side of 30, injury-prone guys yet he refuses to go the distance on the elite players when they become available on the market. It can't be coincidence that the vast majority of his acquisitions/signings have put up a negative WAR with their time with the Sox. 

That says there's also an issue with scouting at the Major League level and/or development when those guys get here.

And you can't overlook what appears to be a medical, training and conditioning staff that has serious issues. In the last five years the Sox have gone through three trainers (Herm... Ball, who is suing the club and now Kirk), they've gone through a few strength and development guys (Thomas and Torborg) yet the injuries are relentless.

This past November Hahn publicly said the Sox were going to conduct a study trying to get a handle on the injury situation, especially the soft tissue ones, but those findings were never made public. I did see an ad this off season the Sox placed for a "bio-mechanics" specialist but that's all I know.

I was told that Alan Thomas left (or was fired depending on who you talk to) because he disagreed with the results of that study. That he felt the Sox injury issues were caused by the COVID situation impacting ability to work out and the shortened spring trainings, although that ignores the fact the Sox were getting hard hit by injuries as far back as 2016 (remember that year four rookies making their MLB debuts were never able to even finish their first games due to injuries' that put them on the IL).

One person said that when it comes to things like conditioning, nutrition, sleep-schedules "the Sox play checkers while other teams are playing chess..." (I told the same thing to the folks I've known in the front office.)

My point being there are a LOT of serious issues with this organization that go far beyond the field manager.

Regardless of if they make the playoffs or not this season has shown a lot of those issues clearly.

The question is will JR do anything about it? 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Lip Man 1

[hi8is]

18 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I know Nightengale has been beating this drum for the last few months and he is very close to JR and Kenny. He is actually one of the few media-types that JR has conversations with.

But I've also seen where, regarding the White Sox, he's been wrong an awful lot...sort of the national version of Bruce Levine.

I recently expressed my feelings to some of the folks I know in the Sox front office. I said that if a change is made it can't just be TLR, JR needs to do a housecleaning a la what John Allyn did in September 1970 because the Sox have lost credibility with a large segment of the fan base.

I've know TLR since the early 80's...have interviewed him multiple times and in those in-depth conversations, I've come away with how sharp, how brilliant this guy was baseball-wise.

But this is not the same guy anymore. The bizarre decisions, the stumbling/mumbling press conferences, the falling asleep (or at least looking like he's very tired) in the dugout.

It's hurting this team but he's not the only issue. 

Hahn is going on year 10 as G.M. and his track record (even when the Sox weren't rebuilding) is very poor. The numbers don't lie.

He's wasted millions and millions of dollars on guys I consider retreads, has-been's, guys on the down side of 30, injury-prone guys yet he refuses to go the distance on the elite players when they become available on the market. It can't be coincidence that the vast majority of his acquisitions/signings have put up a negative WAR with their time with the Sox. 

That says there's also an issue with scouting at the Major League level and/or development when those guys get here.

And you can't overlook what appears to be a medical, training and conditioning staff that has serious issues. In the last five years the Sox have gone through three trainers (Herm... Ball, who is suing the club and now Kirk), they've gone through a few strength and development guys (Thomas and Torborg) yet the injuries are relentless.

This past November Hahn publicly said the Sox were going to conduct a study trying to get a handle on the injury situation, especially the soft tissue ones, but those findings were never made public. I did see an ad this off season the Sox placed for a "bio-mechanics" specialist but that's all I know.

I was told that Alan Thomas left (or was fired depending on who you talk to) because he disagreed with the results of that study. That he felt the Sox injury issues were caused by the COVID situation impacting ability to work out and the shortened spring trainings, although that ignores the fact the Sox were getting hard hit by injuries as far back as 2016 (remember that year four rookies making their MLB debuts were never able to even finish their first games due to injuries' that put them on the IL).

One person said that when it comes to things like conditioning, nutrition, sleep-schedules "the Sox play checkers while other teams are playing chess..." (I told the same thing to the folks I've known in the front office.)

My point being there are a LOT of serious issues with this organization that go far beyond the field manager.

Regardless of if they make the playoffs or not this season has shown a lot of those issues clearly.

The question is will JR do anything about it? 

 

Heat.

[GradMc]

On 8/15/2022 at 6:26 PM, hankchifan said:

I only agree with you if we are talking about a family controlled business.  With a public corporation, it is harder to keep an incompetent key employee.

Or a woefully out of touch chairman.

[GradMc]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I know Nightengale has been beating this drum for the last few months and he is very close to JR and Kenny. He is actually one of the few media-types that JR has conversations with.

But I've also seen where, regarding the White Sox, he's been wrong an awful lot...sort of the national version of Bruce Levine.

I recently expressed my feelings to some of the folks I know in the Sox front office. I said that if a change is made it can't just be TLR, JR needs to do a housecleaning a la what John Allyn did in September 1970 because the Sox have lost credibility with a large segment of the fan base.

I've know TLR since the early 80's...have interviewed him multiple times and in those in-depth conversations, I've come away with how sharp, how brilliant this guy was baseball-wise.

But this is not the same guy anymore. The bizarre decisions, the stumbling/mumbling press conferences, the falling asleep (or at least looking like he's very tired) in the dugout.

It's hurting this team but he's not the only issue. 

Hahn is going on year 10 as G.M. and his track record (even when the Sox weren't rebuilding) is very poor. The numbers don't lie.

He's wasted millions and millions of dollars on guys I consider retreads, has-been's, guys on the down side of 30, injury-prone guys yet he refuses to go the distance on the elite players when they become available on the market. It can't be coincidence that the vast majority of his acquisitions/signings have put up a negative WAR with their time with the Sox. 

That says there's also an issue with scouting at the Major League level and/or development when those guys get here.

And you can't overlook what appears to be a medical, training and conditioning staff that has serious issues. In the last five years the Sox have gone through three trainers (Herm... Ball, who is suing the club and now Kirk), they've gone through a few strength and development guys (Thomas and Torborg) yet the injuries are relentless.

This past November Hahn publicly said the Sox were going to conduct a study trying to get a handle on the injury situation, especially the soft tissue ones, but those findings were never made public. I did see an ad this off season the Sox placed for a "bio-mechanics" specialist but that's all I know.

I was told that Alan Thomas left (or was fired depending on who you talk to) because he disagreed with the results of that study. That he felt the Sox injury issues were caused by the COVID situation impacting ability to work out and the shortened spring trainings, although that ignores the fact the Sox were getting hard hit by injuries as far back as 2016 (remember that year four rookies making their MLB debuts were never able to even finish their first games due to injuries' that put them on the IL).

One person said that when it comes to things like conditioning, nutrition, sleep-schedules "the Sox play checkers while other teams are playing chess..." (I told the same thing to the folks I've known in the front office.)

My point being there are a LOT of serious issues with this organization that go far beyond the field manager.

Regardless of if they make the playoffs or not this season has shown a lot of those issues clearly.

The question is will JR do anything about it? 

 

Short of selling, nothing he can do.

CWS has been suffering from the same problems year after year; decade  after decade : horrible ownership from Comiskey to Reinsdorf. 

[Lip Man 1]

6 hours ago, GradMc said:

Short of selling, nothing he can do.

CWS has been suffering from the same problems year after year; decade  after decade : horrible ownership from Comiskey to Reinsdorf. 

Unfortunately JR has publicly said that he will never sell because of the tax hit that would impact his family. If I understand things correctly (and I'm no tax expert) the capital gains tax would hammer him because of the increase in value from the time he bought the team in January 1981. 

After he passes away the taxes aren't as bad when his family sells the club as he has publicly said he has told them to do...keep the Bulls, sell the Sox.

[Harry Chappas]

10 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I know Nightengale has been beating this drum for the last few months and he is very close to JR and Kenny. He is actually one of the few media-types that JR has conversations with.

But I've also seen where, regarding the White Sox, he's been wrong an awful lot...sort of the national version of Bruce Levine.

I recently expressed my feelings to some of the folks I know in the Sox front office. I said that if a change is made it can't just be TLR, JR needs to do a housecleaning a la what John Allyn did in September 1970 because the Sox have lost credibility with a large segment of the fan base.

I've know TLR since the early 80's...have interviewed him multiple times and in those in-depth conversations, I've come away with how sharp, how brilliant this guy was baseball-wise.

But this is not the same guy anymore. The bizarre decisions, the stumbling/mumbling press conferences, the falling asleep (or at least looking like he's very tired) in the dugout.

It's hurting this team but he's not the only issue. 

Hahn is going on year 10 as G.M. and his track record (even when the Sox weren't rebuilding) is very poor. The numbers don't lie.

He's wasted millions and millions of dollars on guys I consider retreads, has-been's, guys on the down side of 30, injury-prone guys yet he refuses to go the distance on the elite players when they become available on the market. It can't be coincidence that the vast majority of his acquisitions/signings have put up a negative WAR with their time with the Sox. 

That says there's also an issue with scouting at the Major League level and/or development when those guys get here.

And you can't overlook what appears to be a medical, training and conditioning staff that has serious issues. In the last five years the Sox have gone through three trainers (Herm... Ball, who is suing the club and now Kirk), they've gone through a few strength and development guys (Thomas and Torborg) yet the injuries are relentless.

This past November Hahn publicly said the Sox were going to conduct a study trying to get a handle on the injury situation, especially the soft tissue ones, but those findings were never made public. I did see an ad this off season the Sox placed for a "bio-mechanics" specialist but that's all I know.

I was told that Alan Thomas left (or was fired depending on who you talk to) because he disagreed with the results of that study. That he felt the Sox injury issues were caused by the COVID situation impacting ability to work out and the shortened spring trainings, although that ignores the fact the Sox were getting hard hit by injuries as far back as 2016 (remember that year four rookies making their MLB debuts were never able to even finish their first games due to injuries' that put them on the IL).

One person said that when it comes to things like conditioning, nutrition, sleep-schedules "the Sox play checkers while other teams are playing chess..." (I told the same thing to the folks I've known in the front office.)

My point being there are a LOT of serious issues with this organization that go far beyond the field manager.

Regardless of if they make the playoffs or not this season has shown a lot of those issues clearly.

The question is will JR do anything about it? 

 

No he will not and hasn't for 40 years...he can outspend the poor teams in the division and the carrot stays out there for us.  This season is exactly what he wants. 

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

No he will not and hasn't for 40 years...he can outspend the poor teams in the division and the carrot stays out there for us.  This season is exactly what he wants. 

I don't think a drop off in attendance is what JR wanted when he dropped almost $200m on payroll this year.

[Harry Chappas]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I don't think a drop off in attendance is what JR wanted when he dropped almost $200m on payroll this year.

If the organization felt the fans were going to buy into this team with no additions and losing rodon after last year that is on them for being stupid.  There was no preseason ticket purchase buzz from a lack of offseason signings and a lockout.

The attendance drop should neither shock or surprise anyone.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Harry Chappas said:

If the organization felt the fans were going to buy into this team with no additions and losing rodon after last year that is on them for being stupid.  There was no preseason ticket purchase buzz from a lack of offseason signings and a lockout.

The attendance drop should neither shock or surprise anyone.

Then this isn't exactly what JR wants.

[ChiSox59]

29 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I don't think a drop off in attendance is what JR wanted when he dropped almost $200m on payroll this year.

Right.  There is no possible way JR is happy with how this season has played out.  

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Right.  There is no possible way JR is happy with how this season has played out.  

Then let's hope he does something about it in the off season. Time will tell.

[South Side Hit Men]

I certainly wouldn’t waste a good paying job, or a kidney, on him.

[Harry Chappas]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Then this isn't exactly what JR wants.

Then he is a fool.  There was little chance of them being better this year and they had to known that.  With that being the case fans aren't rushing to buy tickets before seeign the product.  The product is what everyone thought. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

Then he is a fool.  There was little chance of them being better this year and they had to known that.  With that being the case fans aren't rushing to buy tickets before seeign the product.  The product is what everyone thought. 

I don't get how you can say "They had to know (sic) that" when pretty much everyone, from fans to Fangraphs to professional sportswriters had them as the likely AL Central winner and in the low to mid 90s. I think I voted in the upper 80s here and that put me in the 10% most pessimistic - only a tiny sliver of people had this as an 82-84 win season. 

 

[wegner]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't get how you can say "They had to know (sic) that" when pretty much everyone, from fans to Fangraphs to professional sportswriters had them as the likely AL Central winner and in the low to mid 90s. I think I voted in the upper 80s here and that put me in the 10% most pessimistic - only a tiny sliver of people had this as an 82-84 win season. 

 

Darn I might have forgotten to vote on that one....I'll go 81-81.

[Lip Man 1]

47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't get how you can say "They had to know (sic) that" when pretty much everyone, from fans to Fangraphs to professional sportswriters had them as the likely AL Central winner and in the low to mid 90s. I think I voted in the upper 80s here and that put me in the 10% most pessimistic - only a tiny sliver of people had this as an 82-84 win season. 

 

There absolutely was a lot of optimism and deservedly so but there were also a lot of fans who voiced concern when the Sox failed to make impactful off season moves that really moved the championship needle forward. Else why would Rick Hahn on the radio chastise them? (I think that was in December).