Unprecedented inaction?

[joejoesox]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:00 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

How can you say it was a correct decision ? Which prospects do you expect to come up and actually be good for the Sox in the coming years ? And will those coming years with those prospects yield any playoff  baseball ? Too many here take a playoff appearance for granted like we have so many coming in the near future.

If the Sox had got a couple of LH bats at the trade deadline this team might be in 1st place by a few games already with the starters and the BP doing a pretty good job. Then you have Colas who could've been brought up later  to give the team even more of a LH flavor.

Good pitching with some hitting and defense goes a long way.

trading away what's left of our farm system to attempt to resuscitate this dead season would've been foolish. when are people going to realize adding more talent isn't going to fix the bigger issue

it's a coaching/preparation/leadership problem. replace these people with competent coaches, people who are serious and you'll realize you don't need to mirror the 1990s Yankees to have success, instead try emulating the Rays

[reiks12]

4 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

I wonder if hahn has kinda given up a little because he is frustrated by Jerry.

 

I'm sure hahn hated it when jerry hired larussa and also didn't give him much money to work with. 

Maybe hahn went to jerry in may to fire larussa and menechino and jerry said no and then hahn kinda lost motivation and just did nothing at the deadline. 

That does happen sometimes with employees when they face a frustrating situation in their company that they can't chance,  they kinda emotionally detach themselves from the job and only do the absolute minimum to keep the job until they find another job opportunity. 

Hahn is a smart person, I'm sure he did want to have a smart modern manager,  an improved analytics department and a modern data driven player dev but he probably faced too much resistance in the "bro company" and when jerry didn't support him in cleaning house and remove the guys who resist modernisation he probably just gave up and kinda only did the minimum as he saw his efforts as futile. 

Yet Hahn hasn't applied for other positions in MLB in the last decade. Can we stop painting him like he is a hostage?

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, reiks12 said:

Yet Hahn hasn't applied for other positions in MLB in the last decade. Can we stop painting him like he is a hostage?

Remember that he can’t interview for another GM position (or anything lower) without his owner’s consent. He would most likely have had to resign to do things like that.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Remember that he can’t interview for another GM position (or anything lower) without his owner’s consent. He would most likely have had to resign to do things like that.

Valid point however any individual worth their salt and have any personal pride as a front office executive would have resigned after the owner forced TLR down his throat. Hahn didn't, which tells me he's not that "upset" over the restrictions imposed on him by JR.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Valid point however any individual worth their salt and have any personal pride as a front office executive would have resigned after the owner forced TLR down his throat. Hahn didn't, which tells me he's not that "upset" over the restrictions imposed on him by JR.

The idea that anyone who has a shitty boss just quits on the spot has always amused me.

[elrockinMT]

Let’s strive mightily to win and quit playing the blame game 

[runtheballdown]

6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Valid point however any individual worth their salt and have any personal pride as a front office executive would have resigned after the owner forced TLR down his throat. Hahn didn't, which tells me he's not that "upset" over the restrictions imposed on him by JR.

Hahn decision not to resign is at least because he lives in the village he grew up in ( Winnetka) and has a kid play on the new trier baseball team. Plus the fact that he might have other kids and a wife who doesn’t want to move. 
 

plus he may not be viewed by other teams as a top baseball guy. He might be looked at a guy with a lot of degrees that should be in another line of work.

 

how did he even get hired by Sox? What was his first job with them?

[Quin]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The idea that anyone who has a shitty boss just quits on the spot has always amused me.

Right? Like I know his contract isn't public, but we know with how long he's been with the org and the fact that he was a highly sought after GM candidate once upon a time that he's definitely making a comfortable six figures.

When you've lived in a place for two decades and the one thing standing between you and happiness is the tenure of a man pushing 80, you sigh and carry on.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

Right? Like I know his contract isn't public, but we know with how long he's been with the org and the fact that he was a highly sought after GM candidate once upon a time that he's definitely making a comfortable six figures.

When you've lived in a place for two decades and the one thing standing between you and happiness is the tenure of a man pushing 80, you sigh and carry on.

Also knowing what happened to Kenny Williams when he wanted to interview with Toronto for a promotion, we all have zero idea if Rick can actually take an interview right now.  Quitting won't free him from any non-compete obligations and team control over his future.

He may well want to be here.  None of us here have any actual idea what Rick Hahn thinks and that works both ways. A lack of a real media presence doesn't help that.  But the reality is that this is way more complex than just walking out on your burger flipping job, especially if you want a future in an industry with only 30 similar choices.  It's also worth noting that burning a bridge with JR might be the last thing that Rick Hahn does in this industry.  We have seen him repeatedly block people from entering baseball who he feels are not worthy of the game.  Why wouldn't he do the same to Rick Hahn if he crossed him?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

trading away what's left of our farm system to attempt to resuscitate this dead season would've been foolish. when are people going to realize adding more talent isn't going to fix the bigger issue

it's a coaching/preparation/leadership problem. replace these people with competent coaches, people who are serious and you'll realize you don't need to mirror the 1990s Yankees to have success, instead try emulating the Rays

It still don't get it and get the desire to not make the current team as good as possible . White Sox baseball has been a travesty for over 100 years . It's all well and good to preach competence in other areas of team building (and Lord knows I have been preaching that forever) but what makes anyone ( like you) think that will happen when it's never happened ? Adding talent on the field is all we got.

The behind the scenes talent and spending the money to acquire it has never happened in the history of the organization, otherwise it would have shown up on the field . You expecting some grand turn over in leadership who will spend behind the scenes on top talent is what's foolish.

I'll take the present , you can continue to hope for what has never happened with the White Sox in team history.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

On 8/20/2022 at 3:55 PM, Saufley said:

The season that could have been and never was. 

and.............Sox fans have witnessed that before

[Kyyle23]

Just gonna say that everything shitty is very much precedented with Tony now 

[South Side Hit Men]

13 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

I wonder if hahn has kinda given up a little because he is frustrated by Jerry.

I'm sure hahn hated it when jerry hired larussa and also didn't give him much money to work with. 

Maybe hahn went to jerry in may to fire larussa and menechino and jerry said no and then hahn kinda lost motivation and just did nothing at the deadline. 

That does happen sometimes with employees when they face a frustrating situation in their company that they can't chance,  they kinda emotionally detach themselves from the job and only do the absolute minimum to keep the job until they find another job opportunity. 

Hahn is a smart person, I'm sure he did want to have a smart modern manager,  an improved analytics department and a modern data driven player dev but he probably faced too much resistance in the "bro company" and when jerry didn't support him in cleaning house and remove the guys who resist modernisation he probably just gave up and kinda only did the minimum as he saw his efforts as futile. 

While Tony was something Hahn wouldn’t have done, he is responsible for the eight years previous seasons.

• Jerry gave him $200M.
• Hahn extended Ricky sixty games before Jerry hired Tony.
• Hahn had eight years to improve on league worst scouting, analytics and player development in MLB.
• Hahn wasted four years of top draft picks during tanking.
• Hahn brought in Menechino, not Tony.

[Lip Man 1]

5 hours ago, runtheballdown said:

Hahn decision not to resign is at least because he lives in the village he grew up in ( Winnetka) and has a kid play on the new trier baseball team. Plus the fact that he might have other kids and a wife who doesn’t want to move. 
 

plus he may not be viewed by other teams as a top baseball guy. He might be looked at a guy with a lot of degrees that should be in another line of work.

 

how did he even get hired by Sox? What was his first job with them?

Hahn original position with the Sox was to negotiate contracts given his law (Michigan) and business (Harvard) degrees. And he was very good at that.

How that translated though into knowing the in and outs of being a G.M. and running an organization based on talent, scouting, player development I can't answer.

Kenny, lord knows had his faults...but at least he played the game at a high level, knew the game and the intricacies of it and management. 

In his nine seasons that have been completed where he has been the G.M. the Sox have had seven losing seasons...and they weren't always trying to rebuild in four of those.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Lip Man 1

[Lip Man 1]

6 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The idea that anyone who has a shitty boss just quits on the spot has always amused me.

SS: In the real world I'd certainly agree with you. Certainly with an average person. 

But Hahn does have multiple degrees from some of the best schools in America. Michigan law, Harvard business. 

I'd have to think if he would have quit when the TLR decision came down or even if he quit tomorrow he wouldn't have any trouble getting a very good position in a company. Granted it may not be in baseball but I seriously doubt he'd be wondering where his next meal is coming from.

The fact that JR by all accounts rammed down the TLR decision undercuts Hahn's authority and standing. if that isn't grounds for walking away I can't think of many more. Which is why I personally think he's comfortable (like so many in the organization) knowing if he is loyal, does his job, doesn't make waves he can stay as long as he wants at a very good salary.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

SS: In the real world I'd certainly agree with you. Certainly with an average person. 

But Hahn does have multiple degrees from some of the best schools in America. Michigan law, Harvard business. 

I'd have to think if he would have quit when the TLR decision came down or even if he quit tomorrow he wouldn't have any trouble getting a very good position in a company. Granted it may not be in baseball but I seriously doubt he'd be wondering where his next meal is coming from.

The fact that JR by all accounts rammed down the TLR decision undercuts Hahn's authority and standing. if that isn't grounds for walking away I can't think of many more. Which is why I personally think he's comfortable (like so many in the organization) knowing if he is loyal, does his job, doesn't make waves he can stay as long as he wants at a very good salary.

You ignored the rest of the posted loaded with actual reasons why professionals with things like NCAs and NDAs can't just quit.

[Lip Man 1]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You ignored the rest of the posted loaded with actual reasons why professionals with things like NCAs and NDAs can't just quit.

SS: I didn't ignore it, I said a new position may not be in baseball but I'm sure with his background, education and pedigree he'd have an excellent position. JR can't stop him for example from going to work at a law firm or say an industrial company.

I'm not a lawyer but I don't think there's a court in America that would allow any type of clause like that to stand (you can't prevent someone from making a living) and I've worked in TV and had non-competition clauses in my contracts, but that didn't mean I couldn't quit as long as I gave notice, and take a job outside of the industry.

If Hahn did that I don't see how JR could stop him from leaving for another non-baseball position but I could be wrong, don't know the details of his contract as you pointed out. 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Lip Man 1

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You ignored the rest of the posted loaded with actual reasons why professionals with things like NCAs and NDAs can't just quit.

Haven't we seen GMs move from franchise to franchise before? Immediately coming to mind is Jed Hoyer, who I don't think left the Padres feeling that good when he jumped ship, right? Doesn't that tell us something about whether other teams are using non-compete agreements?

[chitownsportsfan]

I think I'll become an active fan after JR dies or if Hahn is fired. Org needs a complete enema. Outside of a couple good trades that were necessitated by his own failure, Hahn has done nothing of note. We endured a tear down for this?

 

Why is Lip back? Did they let him out of the old folks home at WSI?

Edited August 22, 2022 by chitownsportsfan

[southsider2k5]

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Haven't we seen GMs move from franchise to franchise before? Immediately coming to mind is Jed Hoyer, who I don't think left the Padres feeling that good when he jumped ship, right? Doesn't that tell us something about whether other teams are using non-compete agreements?

Using and enforcement are 2 different things.  We KNOW Jerry is willing to sandbag his own employees. 

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

SS: I didn't ignore it, I said a new position may not be in baseball but I'm sure with his background, education and pedigree he'd have an excellent position. JR can't stop him for example from going to work at a law firm or say an industrial company.

I'm not a lawyer but I don't think there's a court in America that would allow any type of clause like that to stand (you can't prevent someone from making a living) and I've worked in TV and had non-competition clauses in my contracts, but that didn't mean I couldn't quit as long as I gave notice, and take a job outside of the industry.

If Hahn did that I don't see how JR could stop him from leaving for another non-baseball position but I could be wrong, don't know the details of his contract as you pointed out. 

 

Rick Hahn isn't quitting the industry because of Tony LaRussa.  That's absurd as an expectation. 

[Lip Man 1]

16 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think I'll become an active fan after JR dies or if Hahn is fired. Org needs a complete enema. Outside of a couple good trades that were necessitated by his own failure, Hahn has done nothing of note. We endured a tear down for this?

 

Why is Lip back? Did they let him out of the old folks home at WSI?

If my comments/contributions aren't welcome here please say so and I'll oblige you.

[Balta1701]

34 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Using and enforcement are 2 different things.  We KNOW Jerry is willing to sandbag his own employees. 

I mean, this is definitely another reason why you would act and move on after they hired LaRussa because this would also be poor treatment of your employees. Shove the manager down his throat and then use a noncompete agreement to kick him out of the league if he disagrees, and this is considered a solid job situation?

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I mean, this is definitely another reason why you would act and move on after they hired LaRussa because this would also be poor treatment of your employees. Shove the manager down his throat and then use a noncompete agreement to kick him out of the league if he disagrees, and this is considered a solid job situation?

If he is under contract, he can't. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

If he is under contract, he can't. 

If Reinsdorf treats his employees this poorly then it’s hard to imagine why they’d stay.