Fire Everyone Thread/Rebuild Maybe?

[Dam8610]

11 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Can we just have a fire everyone thread?
 

First base coach - accused rapist ✅

third base coach - leads league in players thrown out at home ✅

miguel Cairo - does he even exist? ✅

TLR - too many reasons to list ✅

training staff/strength conditioning staff - ✅

analytics department - Duncan’s son ✅

Hahn - ✅

Jerry - ✅

I could careless if any of these people come back next year. 

To borrow from a famous local politician: YES WE CAN!

 

Anyway, this entire season is worthy of a front office house cleaning, right? We surely didn't endure the latter half of the 2010s for this, did we? This got me thinking, if there is a new front office, which by all rights there should be, with all the holes they'll be looking at filling, while simultaneously having a roster with admittedly a lot of talent, would another rebuild be the best option? A lot could be had for Cease, Kopech, Vaughn, Anderson, Robert etc. You could probably also get some halfway interesting pieces for some of the other players as well. I think with a competent ownership group and front office, investing everything into scouting and development and starting over would be the obvious choice, which is why I'm hesitant with the current ownership group even if they did put a new front office in place.

[reiks12]

It wont matter until Jerry sells the team and dies

[Bossanoveralls]

Dam, great thread!

Will recommend to friends.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[Timmy U]

Yep, much needed thread.  Everyone in this org should go except Getz, Katz, and maybe Southpaw.  I’d get rid of  him too, but knowing Jerry he’d bring back Ribbie, Rhubarb, and Don Cooper dressed as Waldo the White Sox Wolf.

[The Mighty Mite]

20 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Yep, much needed thread.  Everyone in this org should go except Getz, Katz, and maybe Southpaw.  I’d get rid of  him too, but knowing Jerry he’d bring back Ribbie, Rhubarb, and Don Cooper dressed as Waldo the White Sox Wolf.

I'm too old for another rebuild but there needs to be some changes on and off the field.

 

[Bossanoveralls]

It's about motherfuckers.

They need to fire a buncha motherfuckers so they can hire a buncha motherfuckers then fire them motherfuckers so they can hire a buncha new motherfuckers so they can hurry up and fire them motherfuckers too.

Just boils down to motherfuckers.

[JTB]

43 minutes ago, Bossanoveralls said:

It's about motherfuckers.

They need to fire a buncha motherfuckers so they can hire a buncha motherfuckers then fire them motherfuckers so they can hire a buncha new motherfuckers so they can hurry up and fire them motherfuckers too.

Just boils down to motherfuckers.

And parboiling, especially the carrots and celery. 

[CentralChamps21]

1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

Yep, much needed thread.  Everyone in this org should go except Getz, Katz, and maybe Southpaw.  I’d get rid of  him too, but knowing Jerry he’d bring back Ribbie, Rhubarb, and Don Cooper dressed as Waldo the White Sox Wolf.

I guess we should add Roger Bossard to the 'Do not Fire' list.

[ShoeLessRob]

1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

Yep, much needed thread.  Everyone in this org should go except Getz, Katz, and maybe Southpaw.  I’d get rid of  him too, but knowing Jerry he’d bring back Ribbie, Rhubarb, and Don Cooper dressed as Waldo the White Sox Wolf.

Fuck Southpaw, Waldo the Wolf for life! 

[pcq]

No more rebuilds. Just an excuse for more losing. Sox players are not in demand. 

[GradMc]

CWS will have to be put on the open market to draw the kind of financial firepower and marketing prowness required to finally put this organization on a projectory  similar to LAD, NYY or SD.

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by GradMc

[Lip Man 1]

4 hours ago, GradMc said:

CWS will have to be put on the open market to draw the kind of financial firepower and marketing prowness required to finally put this organization on a projectory  similar to LAD, NYY or SD.

 

And that is exactly what will happen when JR passes away. He's already made that clear publicly on numerous occasions when he has spoken about this. he's told his family to keep the Bulls and sell the Sox. And he also will never sell the club because of the tax hit the family would take if he were to do it when he was still alive.

Was told by a source in the mainstream media, the guy who owns the Cubs South Bend affiliate (and who grew up a Sox fan) twice offered to buy the Sox in 2008 and was told "no."

“The only way I’d sell in the foreseeable future is for health or family reasons or if we lost so much money that it didn’t make sense to keep the team. Under the most recent changes in the law, a pro sports franchise no longer is a good tax shelter. The owners can’t write off half the cost immediately for player depreciation.”– Jerry Reinsdorf to Bob Logan. From the book ‘Miracle On 35^th Street’ by Bob Logan. Pg. 146. Published 1983.

Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf is approaching seventy years old. What about the future of the Sox after he’s gone? Does it stay in the family? It doesn’t look like it, as Reinsdorf explained to ‘Chicago Tonight’ host Bob Sirott in May 2004.  (In that interview he explained what he told his family i.e. 'sell the Sox, keep the Bulls.')

[Balta1701]

On the subject of a “rebuild”, I continue to believe the only option for the white Sox is some version of running it back again next year. 

They have too many guys under contract who have performed so poorly they can’t be moved for what you’d need to get to justify a rebuild. Robert, Moncada, Eloy, Grandal, Giolito, Lynn, Pollock, Kelly, Anderson - you’d be selling low on any of them, and Grandal is on the edge of DFA. For example, moving Lynn or Moncada might save them money next year, but you’re unlikely to get anything back that makes the team better other than saving money, and you might even have to send money with them. Does moving Moncada for no return, saving some money, and having Burger start at 3b make this team better? Does moving Lynn for scraps and having $15 million to spend on the FA market make them better if Davis Martin takes his spot?

With all of those guys, continuing to play them and hoping for improvement remains the only realistic option. For some of them it gets you through their contract, for others maybe they can stay healthy or have a comeback season and that rebuilds their value.

They have guys they could trade to bring back a solid haul such as Cease, but doing so doesn’t get them out of their current contract situation. It does them little good to trade Cease for a prospect haul that helps in 2 or 3 seasons while they still have to pay Grandal, Lynn, and the others next year. What happens if a few of those guys return to form, but you traded away Cease, so you’re still only an expensive .500 team? Furthermore, there’s no reason to think Cease or Kopech will be worth vastly less next offseason if it does come to that point. 

Change the entire coaching staff and front office, parade Rick Hahn through the south side after being tarred and feathered, make some tweaks around the edge to the roster with the limited room you have, and hope that a new staff can reinvigorate some of these players next year. If they can, maybe the team competes, or at least maybe someone like Moncada regains some value. If they can’t, then you’ve cleared a couple contracts (Kelly, Lynn, Grandal), and now you talk about moving a Cease or a Kopech at the deadline next year or in winter 2023-2024.

[South Side Hit Men]

It’s going to take 4-5 years to develop the next core.

• Replace GM and entire scouting (except Marco Paddy, player development, trainer and medical staff.
• Parlay Paddy’s expertise to stock up on solid young players.
• Have solid minor league development staff build catchers, infielders, outfielders and pitchers who can perform at the ML level.
• Have a solid 15-18 players on the ML 0-3 minimum salary level, and complement as needed.

This should have been been done 2017-2022. None of this was done well. This is how smart teams win at any payroll level (Top, Middle or Bottom Ten).

[greg775]

Sox obviously need a new GM and new coaching staff and new medical staff.

That would probably be enough assuming Jerry won't sell the team. When season ends 

[AlSoxfan]

8 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

On the subject of a “rebuild”, I continue to believe the only option for the white Sox is some version of running it back again next year. 

They have too many guys under contract who have performed so poorly they can’t be moved for what you’d need to get to justify a rebuild. Robert, Moncada, Eloy, Grandal, Giolito, Lynn, Pollock, Kelly, Anderson - you’d be selling low on any of them, and Grandal is on the edge of DFA. For example, moving Lynn or Moncada might save them money next year, but you’re unlikely to get anything back that makes the team better other than saving money, and you might even have to send money with them. Does moving Moncada for no return, saving some money, and having Burger start at 3b make this team better? Does moving Lynn for scraps and having $15 million to spend on the FA market make them better if Davis Martin takes his spot?

With all of those guys, continuing to play them and hoping for improvement remains the only realistic option. For some of them it gets you through their contract, for others maybe they can stay healthy or have a comeback season and that rebuilds their value.

They have guys they could trade to bring back a solid haul such as Cease, but doing so doesn’t get them out of their current contract situation. It does them little good to trade Cease for a prospect haul that helps in 2 or 3 seasons while they still have to pay Grandal, Lynn, and the others next year. What happens if a few of those guys return to form, but you traded away Cease, so you’re still only an expensive .500 team? Furthermore, there’s no reason to think Cease or Kopech will be worth vastly less next offseason if it does come to that point. 

Change the entire coaching staff and front office, parade Rick Hahn through the south side after being tarred and feathered, make some tweaks around the edge to the roster with the limited room you have, and hope that a new staff can reinvigorate some of these players next year. If they can, maybe the team competes, or at least maybe someone like Moncada regains some value. If they can’t, then you’ve cleared a couple contracts (Kelly, Lynn, Grandal), and now you talk about moving a Cease or a Kopech at the deadline next year or in winter 2023-2024.

I agree with you for the most part but I think there needs to be some changes made. A new mgr. and all new coaches might be asking for to much but thats what is needed most. I'd keep the pitchers we have but we def. have to many 1st baseman/DH's. The players who don't seem to want to play and/or the guys who are always hurt need to be talked about. We're not getting anything or much out of them anyways, so salary relief  might give us something to work with. I've suffered long enough to sit and watch this team of supposed playoff caliber losers play anymore. I don't believe a rebuild is necessary but changes should be made. The only fear for that is who's making them.

[caulfield12]

17 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

To borrow from a famous local politician: YES WE CAN!

 

Anyway, this entire season is worthy of a front office house cleaning, right? We surely didn't endure the latter half of the 2010s for this, did we? This got me thinking, if there is a new front office, which by all rights there should be, with all the holes they'll be looking at filling, while simultaneously having a roster with admittedly a lot of talent, would another rebuild be the best option? A lot could be had for Cease, Kopech, Vaughn, Anderson, Robert etc. You could probably also get some halfway interesting pieces for some of the other players as well. I think with a competent ownership group and front office, investing everything into scouting and development and starting over would be the obvious choice, which is why I'm hesitant with the current ownership group even if they did put a new front office in place.

You forgot the Ball lawsuit against Hahn et al for sexual orientation bias or discrimination…

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, AlSoxfan said:

I agree with you for the most part but I think there needs to be some changes made. A new mgr. and all new coaches might be asking for to much but thats what is needed most. I'd keep the pitchers we have but we def. have to many 1st baseman/DH's. The players who don't seem to want to play and/or the guys who are always hurt need to be talked about. We're not getting anything or much out of them anyways, so salary relief  might give us something to work with. I've suffered long enough to sit and watch this team of supposed playoff caliber losers play anymore. I don't believe a rebuild is necessary but changes should be made. The only fear for that is who's making them.

The problem is Moncada and Robert are two of the most important core pieces that fit that description.

Good luck replacing that talent.

If you can bottle heart, determination and the so-called will to win..?  Of course, Moncada showed flashes again the last week, and even some rare emotion, too.

[Stinky Stanky]

Gonna be some good times two months from now when we refer back to this thread in the morning before we head out to the parade.  Could happen.?

[dohnut]

This was the rebuild. ?

[greg775]

1 hour ago, dohnut said:

This was the rebuild. ?

Good organizations reload not rebuild and try to fool their fans. Tanking is for the weak. Just fire Hahn, all the coaches plus Tony. Beg Jerry to sell. Maybe with the Bears leaving the city, sox fan mayor would build a new stadium for the Sox downtown by Soldier Field. Definitely a good time for a new owner to come in and threaten to move the team if a new palace is not built. It would look very bad for LL if Bears and Sox leave. GRate field is OK for we diehards but not good nuff.

Edited August 22, 2022 by greg775

[ShoeLessRob]

Adios Soxtalk, hope there are some big changes with this organization next year (doubt it). Maybe will stop back during the off season! 

[RJSox_22]

This rebuild is quickly moving towards a failure.  World Series is further away now than it was last year for sure.
 

Young core either isn’t improving/regressing or simply cannot stay healthy for several months at a time.  A lot of this is just bad luck.. the prospects they got just happened to be injury prone guys.  Not being on the field for 145+ games a year will slow development for sure.

Veteran free agent signings have mostly been huge misses or very replaceable level signings  - nothing of major impact outside of Hendriks and Cueto (Graveman has been solid, and I guess Lynn has been okay? But not really).

Then you have the manager hire that hijacked the whole thing.  I’m sure we will learn much more in the future how badly this effected the club in a negative way… 

Only hope we have is to just write this nightmare 2022 season off.  Best case scenario is:

1) the coaching staff and maybe even GM are fired 

2) players come into next season in better shape, more to prove, and actual hunger and we get good seasons from talented guys like Moncada, Robert, Eloy, Vaughn, Anderson, Giolito, Grandal

3) Better luck with injuries 

4) Hope payroll doesn’t have to decrease.

 

 

 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, RJSox_22 said:

This rebuild is quickly moving towards a failure.  World Series is further away now than it was last year for sure.
 

Young core either isn’t improving/regressing or simply cannot stay healthy for several months at a time.  A lot of this is just bad luck.. the prospects they got just happened to be injury prone guys.  Not being on the field for 145+ games a year will slow development for sure.

Veteran free agent signings have mostly been huge misses or very replaceable level signings  - nothing of major impact outside of Hendriks and Cueto (Graveman has been solid, and I guess Lynn has been okay? But not really).

Then you have the manager hire that hijacked the whole thing.  I’m sure we will learn much more in the future how badly this effected the club in a negative way… 

Only hope we have is to just write this nightmare 2022 season off.  Best case scenario is:

1) the coaching staff and maybe even GM are fired 

2) players come into next season in better shape, more to prove, and actual hunger and we get good seasons from talented guys like Moncada, Robert, Eloy, Vaughn, Anderson, Giolito, Grandal

3) Better luck with injuries 

4) Hope payroll doesn’t have to decrease.

 

 

 

If you compare it three years into the "contention window" to the Astros and Cubs rebuild it already is a failure.

[The Kids Can Play]

On 8/21/2022 at 6:03 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

And that is exactly what will happen when JR passes away. He's already made that clear publicly on numerous occasions when he has spoken about this. he's told his family to keep the Bulls and sell the Sox. And he also will never sell the club because of the tax hit the family would take if he were to do it when he was still alive.

Was told by a source in the mainstream media, the guy who owns the Cubs South Bend affiliate (and who grew up a Sox fan) twice offered to buy the Sox in 2008 and was told "no."

“The only way I’d sell in the foreseeable future is for health or family reasons or if we lost so much money that it didn’t make sense to keep the team. Under the most recent changes in the law, a pro sports franchise no longer is a good tax shelter. The owners can’t write off half the cost immediately for player depreciation.”– Jerry Reinsdorf to Bob Logan. From the book ‘Miracle On 35^th Street’ by Bob Logan. Pg. 146. Published 1983.

Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf is approaching seventy years old. What about the future of the Sox after he’s gone? Does it stay in the family? It doesn’t look like it, as Reinsdorf explained to ‘Chicago Tonight’ host Bob Sirott in May 2004.  (In that interview he explained what he told his family i.e. 'sell the Sox, keep the Bulls.')

Jerry turns 87 in Feb of 2023. Who knows how long he will last. However until he dies, why can't he drop his stubborn arrogance and let someone else run this club, like he did with his son Michael and the Bulls. In the best case scenario, Jerry brings in some excellent and accomplished baseball executive from another winning organization. In turn that person comes in and makes this team great for once. Then as a result, when Jerry does actually pass away....his family will own the Sox which by then, will be a much higher valued team to sell! Obviously that would be great selfless gesture to give to his family. 

It's nice to fantasize, but sadly I realize that will probably never happen.