Perspective Desperately Needed

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

It will depend on what happens when the lease is up in 2029.  I don't see the Sox staying on the south side. Its just too difficult to get to from their fan base, particularly on weeknights. They used to draw heavily from the factory workers on the south side attending after work, those jobs and people are long gone. The Sox didn't want to be there in the first place, and its only gotten worse over the the 30 + years. The Southside jerseys are cool, but what percentage of the attendance is actually Southside residents?  25 maybe?

Worth noting that of all the original multiple team cities since 1901- Chicago, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, St Louis (1902), only Chicago has its original teams. Doesn't matter how big your market is if the other team is selling 2.5 million plus tickets ever year and the TV market is split.

And yes, decisions are made supposedly in the best interests of MLB. AL and NL are irrelevant.

I believe MLB's owners realize they have several problems, but the largest ones are Oakland and Tampa Bay. They know those have to be dealt with. Tampa Bay I would guess that they hope a new stadium can deal with that but Tampa Bay is stuck in a long deal at their current spot, and Oakland is coming to a head right now in terms of getting a stadium plan together or moving (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10042606-mlbs-rob-manfred-athletics-new-oakland-stadium-deal-needs-to-happen-now). 

Beyond that, MLB owners would really, really like to be able to expand the league. Why? Because they'll get a billion dollar expansion fee from any ownership group they let into the club. 

The last thing MLB wants to have happen is a legacy team like the White Sox who are profitable and in a big market suddenly be unable to support themselves and move as a consequence. Why? Because if the White Sox were to move to Portland...the league could not get an expansion franchise in Portland. 

[CentralChamps21]

47 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

It will depend on what happens when the lease is up in 2029.  I don't see the Sox staying on the south side. Its just too difficult to get to from their fan base, particularly on weeknights. They used to draw heavily from the factory workers on the south side attending after work, those jobs and people are long gone. The Sox didn't want to be there in the first place, and its only gotten worse over the the 30 + years. The Southside jerseys are cool, but what percentage of the attendance is actually Southside residents?  25 maybe?

Worth noting that of all the original multiple team cities since 1901- Chicago, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, St Louis (1902), only Chicago has its original teams. Doesn't matter how big your market is if the other team is selling 2.5 million plus tickets ever year and the TV market is split.

And yes, decisions are made supposedly in the best interests of MLB. AL and NL are irrelevant.

As others have noted, the huge TV money the Sox rake in makes it nearly impossible for them to move. They can't come close to matching that revenue anywhere else.

As to whether or not they stay in their specific location on the south side, that's another question. I'm not privy to the ZIP Code data from Sox ticket sales, but I'd imagine that much larger than 50% comes from south of Madison St., whether that be the city, suburbs, or NW Indiana. I don't see any other site where the Sox could build both a stadium and have anywhere near the parking they have now.

Build a new stadium on the north side of 35th, with the home plate to dead center field line pointing straight toward the downtown skyline. On the site of the current stadium, build a complex with restaurants/nightlife/shopping on the ground level and condos going up from there.

Of course, get new ownership first.

[ThirdGen]

20 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

As others have noted, the huge TV money the Sox rake in makes it nearly impossible for them to move. They can't come close to matching that revenue anywhere else.

As to whether or not they stay in their specific location on the south side, that's another question. I'm not privy to the ZIP Code data from Sox ticket sales, but I'd imagine that much larger than 50% comes from south of Madison St., whether that be the city, suburbs, or NW Indiana. I don't see any other site where the Sox could build both a stadium and have anywhere near the parking they have now.

Build a new stadium on the north side of 35th, with the home plate to dead center field line pointing straight toward the downtown skyline. On the site of the current stadium, build a complex with restaurants/nightlife/shopping on the ground level and condos going up from there.

Of course, get new ownership first.

I don't have that data either, but I suspect the majority of fans are coming from the west and southwest suburbs.  A ballpark closer to the center of that area that avoids the 20 mph trek into the city could be the difference between buying tickets and watching on TV for lots of potential fans.  Woodridge to Sox park is an 1:20 drive lots of nights, and an hour home. Thats rough on a work/school night.  That used to be 45 minutes max 20 years ago, often 30.  Even worse for fans who live in Naperville, Aurora etc, which has large population with the money to buy tickets.

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

I don't have that data either, but I suspect the majority of fans are coming from the west and southwest suburbs.  A ballpark closer to the center of that area that avoids the 20 mph trek into the city could be the difference between buying tickets and watching on TV for lots of potential fans.  Woodridge to Sox park is an 1:20 drive lots of nights, and an hour home. Thats rough on a work/school night.  That used to be 45 minutes max 20 years ago, often 30.  Even worse for fans who live in Naperville, Aurora etc, which has large population with the money to buy tickets.

I get that, but if you want someplace that's going to be a shorter drive for people coming from all of Woodridge, Tinley Park and Munster, your only option is somewhere near one of the exits off the Tri-State between I-55 and I-57, and there isn't anywhere along there to fit in a ballpark with any amount of parking. There's no spot I can find where the Sox can build a stadium and sell more tickets than they sell now.

[greg775]

46 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

Woodridge to Sox park is an 1:20 drive lots of nights, and an hour home. 

No way it's an hour to Woodridge from The Cell after a normal night game. Cmon. Only way I could see that is if you can't get out of the lots for 20 minutes, which mght be possible I guess if that's what u mean.

The 1:20 hour drive to the game is a deal breaker though. I would never do that. Add a 4 hour game that's 5 hours and 20 minutes. There will come a time nobody's gonna go to games, probably when the Boomers hit 80 years old or 75 maybe. Today's TV technology makes it unacceptable to take 1:20 to get to the park.

Edited August 30, 2022 by greg775

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I believe MLB's owners realize they have several problems, but the largest ones are Oakland and Tampa Bay. They know those have to be dealt with. Tampa Bay I would guess that they hope a new stadium can deal with that but Tampa Bay is stuck in a long deal at their current spot, and Oakland is coming to a head right now in terms of getting a stadium plan together or moving (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10042606-mlbs-rob-manfred-athletics-new-oakland-stadium-deal-needs-to-happen-now). 

Beyond that, MLB owners would really, really like to be able to expand the league. Why? Because they'll get a billion dollar expansion fee from any ownership group they let into the club. 

The last thing MLB wants to have happen is a legacy team like the White Sox who are profitable and in a big market suddenly be unable to support themselves and move as a consequence. Why? Because if the White Sox were to move to Portland...the league could not get an expansion franchise in Portland. 

Any sports team that moves to Portland right now is insane. Businesses are moving OUT not into that goshforsaken place.

[poppysox]

On 8/29/2022 at 9:25 AM, WBWSF said:

Fox. Aparicio, Pierce and Wynn liked Veeck as a person. They thought Veecks trading of Mincher, Cash, Battey, Romano and Callison was wrong  They knew  that all of those players were talented. All of those traded players  had All Star years. The media  always liked Veeck. I never understood it. I thought he was a terrible owner.

I tend to agree with you.  Bill couldn't afford to play the money game with the big boys.  Veeck made up for his lack of money with tons of wheeler-dealer trades.  Trades are a fan favorite and he understood that.  The current FO doesn't make anywhere near the number of deals that fans like.  We seem conservative and cheap to the average fan.  I don't think we are cheap at all but we spend the money poorly.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

I tend to agree with you.  Bill couldn't afford to play the money game with the big boys.  Veeck made up for his lack of money with tons of wheeler-dealer trades.  Trades are a fan favorite and he understood that.  The current FO doesn't make anywhere near the number of deals that fans like.  We seem conservative and cheap to the average fan.  I don't think we are cheap at all but we spend the money poorly.

Here's the thing about Bill. Look at who some of his limited partners were...they actually were some of the richest people in America.

Seriously.

But Bill had a philosophy that he would never go to his partners asking for more money and that he'd always somehow turn a profit for them.

That was the sad thing about Bill, who knows what could have been accomplished if only he'd ask.

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Here's the thing about Bill. Look at who some of his limited partners were...they actually were some of the richest people in America.

Seriously.

But Bill had a philosophy that he would never go to his partners asking for more money and that he'd always somehow turn a profit for them.

That was the sad thing about Bill, who knows what could have been accomplished if only he'd ask.

It's hard to put the capital funding standards of today vs. how MLB owners operated in the 1950s-1970s.

CBS, a supposedly smart corporation, dumped the Yankees for chump change (several million dollars) a couple of years before Bill Veeck saved the Sox from a move to Denver.

The Tribune paid double, still chump change, for the Cubs several years later, and Reinsdorf paid about the same for the White Sox that same year.