9/14 vs. Rockies @ 110CT - Cease v. Freeland: Keep Winning, Please

[wegner]

3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You can only dump Hahn's shitty players next year by adding good players.

The Dodgers don't sign Trea Turner, they may take on 1 or 2 contracts (Grandal, Moncada, Pollock) if you give them Tim Anderson and Liam Hendriks.

Then again, if Hahn is still here, wouldn't be surprised if he traded LIam and Tim straight up for Kimbrel and Bellinger.

No need for a trade.  Kimbrel is a free agent.  Rick will be looking to add to the best bullpen $$ can buy.

[southsideirish71]

3 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Yoan is only 27. If he actually gets healthy and trains well this off-season he has a chance to be good again. Almost all those guys you listed are expensive and past their prime. I wouldn't give up on him yet but if he shows up in ST and hits .150 again we're gonna be in for a long next 2 seasons. 

I think he is the protypical "I got my money" player and this is what he is.  I dont think his pride is an issue.  He will go back this winter and party and drink and have fun and will show up with the promise of "potential"

[wegner]

Just now, southsideirish71 said:

I think he is the protypical "I got my money" player and this is what he is.  I dont think his pride is an issue.  He will go back this winter and party and drink and have fun and will show up with the promise of "potential"

Hey, good defensive 3B are expensive.  We just have to live with that. 

[South Side Hit Men]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

With a player option I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. I think to DFA him at the deadline would have cost his full contract in 2022 and the full $10 million option in 2023. You'd have saved the $1-2 million for the PA bonuses. 

He would have the same two options next year ($5M to go elsewhere / retire, or $10M to return).

What I'm saying is the additional $3M - $5M in PA incentives would have been gone, and he likely would have taken the $5M plus whatever new contract he could get in 2023 versus returning to the team that cut him with his tail between his legs for $10M, especially if he could sign for $3M-$5M + for next season.

So the Sox traded a likely $5M 2023 cost for $14M-$15M near certain cost by continuing to play him after they pulled the plug on the season by passing on adding at the deadline. Far more than what they would have to pay Colas four years later, and he could have been a difference maker, or just play Haseley and Payton.

 

[Balta1701]

Just now, South Side Hit Men said:

He would have the same two options next year ($5M to go elsewhere / retire, or $10M to return).

What I'm saying is the additional $3M - $5M in PA incentives would have been gone, and he likely would have taken the $5M plus whatever new contract he could get in 2023 versus returning to the team that cut him with his tail between his legs for $10M, especially if he could sign for $3M-$5M + for next season.

So the Sox traded a likely $5M 2023 cost for $14M-$15M near certain cost by continuing to play him after they pulled the plug on the season by passing on adding at the deadline. Far more than what they would have to pay Colas four years later, and he could have been a difference maker, or just play Haseley and Payton.

 

No he can't return though, he can have the option picked up but the white sox have already DFA'd him, so that means the White Sox have decided they will pay the whole option and he can still go sign somewhere else. He doesn't need to take the buyout. I'd bet you that they owed him the entire option if he was DFAd. 

[southsideirish71]

Imagine if we hired AJ Hinch instead of the corpse.  This to me is just as bad as the white flag trade, the lockout in 94.  This is just JR destroying things.  We assumed that the lockout would cost us years due to the principals involved.  Its JR self destroying the team.  

[wegner]

Cairo admitted Robert did not look comfortable with his swing today....why have him hit in 9th??

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, wegner said:

Cairo admitted Robert did not look comfortable with his swing today....why have him hit in 9th??

We told him to rub some dirt on it, what else could you possibly expect us to do?

[southsideirish71]

They are probably not going to have Soxfest because they will use Covid or something to avoid it.  But that is the ticket to get this offseason.  It will be rockin if they have it.  

[wegner]

I really am not comfortable with all the talk about injuries to this team pre, during and post game.  It just seems like they are setting themselves up for an offseason of "if only we were healthy"

I'm sorry but there is a helluva lot more problems with this team than just injuries.

[fathom]

I mentioned them earlier, but the trio of Robert, Engel and Sheets are 9 for their last 93!

[fathom]

11 minutes ago, wegner said:

Cairo admitted Robert did not look comfortable with his swing today....why have him hit in 9th??

No shot he looked comfortable in BP

[southsideirish71]

1 minute ago, wegner said:

I really am not comfortable with all the talk about injuries to this team pre, during and post game.  It just seems like they are setting themselves up for an offseason of "if only we were healthy"

I'm sorry but there is a helluva lot more problems with this team than just injuries.

Thats my thoughts for why TLR will be back.  His ego is beyond impressive. He wont want to go out like this.  He will come back with a "if only they were healthy, we could of won"

 

Then we will have to watch Hahn do very very interesting things trying to "fix" the roster.  

[kitekrazy]

31 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I got nothing against Cairo, but they need to do a real managerial search this time around. Maybe playing better in the last 2 weeks gives the team some sense of direction, but the FO and managerial staff shouldn't be free from consequences for blowing this season so badly. 

Plus who is available other than the recently fired managers.  Sox fans are infected insert former player here as manager.  I don't expect Francona or Hinch to be fired.

[South Side Hit Men]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What is the point of getting rid of a Moncada salary if you're also getting rid of good players? Congrats, you've moved Moncada's salary so you have more money to spend on the free agent market, but you also must replace Tim Anderson. You have $29 million extra to spend but you have no starting SS or 3b. That doesn't even pay Correa's salary this year.

All you've done in that case is save Jerry Reinsdorf some money while making the team actually worse and less competitive. What's the point of doing that other than to throw a tantrum over Moncada being bad? 

The Sox are not going to increase payroll from this season, if anything they will likely try to cut $20M-$40M. See a big plunge in returning season ticket holders between inflation, this god-awful team and the current conditions in Chicago.

Jerry will bring back Abreu and or Tony if either/both want to return. If Tony is coming back, ticket sales will plummet further than if he stepped down and you can sell a new beginning with the core most fans still love.

I personally don't share the same animosity toward Moncada, I'm looking to pawn off Grandal, Pollock if possible before Moncada. Also looking to trade Eloy to Miami for a good starting pitcher. I doubt the Sox will do any of that, so fans can rest assured that things will remain as is.

[Lip Man 1]

9 minutes ago, wegner said:

I really am not comfortable with all the talk about injuries to this team pre, during and post game.  It just seems like they are setting themselves up for an offseason of "if only we were healthy"

I'm sorry but there is a helluva lot more problems with this team than just injuries.

ALL teams had injuries and ALL teams went through a shortened spring training although I've interviewed a lot of guys who have told me spring training is to long anyway, those are simply excuses for an inept, dysfunctional and incompetent organization.

[Lip Man 1]

When the Sox look back on this season they may notice how badly they played against really bad teams...some awful ones in fact.

As of right now they have lost 31 games to teams with a losing record on the season.

31.

All teams will lose games from time to time against bad teams, but man 31 of them (and the season isn't over... on paper anyway) is just a killer.

[South Side Hit Men]

40 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I got nothing against Cairo, but they need to do a real managerial search this time around. Maybe playing better in the last 2 weeks gives the team some sense of direction, but the FO and managerial staff shouldn't be free from consequences for blowing this season so badly. 

The problem is, no quality manager would consider working for Jerry and Hahn. There needs to be new stable and sane ownership before this moves up from a bottom 5-10 MLB job.

Hinch was primarily interested because he was coming off his suspension and the good core for a few years. He didn't have many other options (Detroit). Espada would have been a good choice for 2021, but he will likely be promoted at this point, and nobody is leaving Houston (or anywhere else good) to come to Chicago. 

Boche or perhaps another proven veteran looking for one or two years? Perhaps. But you're looking likely at Cairo or another jackass inexperienced ex Sox player option like AJ., who may win ticket sales in November, but will be challenged to learn on the fly in a rapidly closing window.

[Balta1701]

22 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Sox are not going to increase payroll from this season, if anything they will likely try to cut $20M-$40M. See a big plunge in returning season ticket holders between inflation, this god-awful team and the current conditions in Chicago.

Jerry will bring back Abreu and or Tony if either/both want to return. If Tony is coming back, ticket sales will plummet further than if he stepped down and you can sell a new beginning with the core most fans still love.

I personally don't share the same animosity toward Moncada, I'm looking to pawn off Grandal, Pollock if possible before Moncada. Also looking to trade Eloy to Miami for a good starting pitcher. I doubt the Sox will do any of that, so fans can rest assured that things will remain as is.

Eloy Jimenez is owed $22.5 million over the next 2 years and follows that up with two $16.5 and $18.5 million option years with a $3 million buyout either year. Is that a guy who has any surplus value to anyone, let alone a team like the Marlins?  $25 million over the next 2 years guaranteed? Florida pays that all the time?

[The Kids Can Play]

6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

When the Sox look back on this season they may notice how badly they played against really bad teams...some awful ones in fact.

As of right now they have lost 31 games to teams with a losing record on the season.

31.

All teams will lose games from time to time against bad teams, but man 31 of them (and the season isn't over... on paper anyway) is just a killer.

 Just like today, in those 31 losses to losing teams, we always made those loser pitchers with their high ERA look like a bunch of Cy Young candidates.

[chw42]

27 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Plus who is available other than the recently fired managers.  Sox fans are infected insert former player here as manager.  I don't expect Francona or Hinch to be fired.

Of the recently fired ones I'd only be interested in Maddon but I'd doubt the Sox would want anything to do with him given how vocal he was about how poorly run the Angles were. I feel like the Sox are in a similar spot. 

[chw42]

1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said:

 Just like today, in those 31 losses to losing teams, we always made those loser pitchers with their high ERA look like a bunch of Cy Young candidates.

That's the one thing the Sox did really well last year. They beat the s%*# out of bad starters early and often. No such thing this year. 

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

 Just like today, in those 31 losses to losing teams, we always made those loser pitchers with their high ERA look like a bunch of Cy Young candidates.

And I bet there’s very little slugging in those games 

[chw42]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Eloy Jimenez is owed $22.5 million over the next 2 years and follows that up with two $16.5 and $18.5 million option years with a $3 million buyout either year. Is that a guy who has any surplus value to anyone, let alone a team like the Marlins?  $25 million over the next 2 years guaranteed? Florida pays that all the time?

Eloy has been worth 2 WAR despite playing 60 games this year and most of it at DH. He has value. He just needs to stay healthy cause he's a .900+ OPS bat if he can stay on the field. 

[chw42]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

And I bet there’s very little slugging in those games 

Just look at what happened today. They got on base and hit Freeland hard for about the first 5 innings but couldn't get any runs cause they kept choking with guys on. If you turn those hard hit singles and doubles into homers they score at least a few off him.