kwill Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Is there a place where this thread is stored so we can look back at who said what for the next five years? Just want to know who really doesnt believe in the teams core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 32 minutes ago, kwill said: Is there a place where this thread is stored so we can look back at who said what for the next five years? Just want to know who really doesnt believe in the teams core. Why would anyone believe in this teams core? They faded and got demolished in the playoffs last season and then couldn't even win this lousy division this season. The roster is aging, injured, and under-performing and they have an owner who is more interested in hiring his buddies or ex players than actual competent managers. There is very little to raise hope with this organization. 3 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Personally I think there's a lot of hints that the 2022 payroll is JR's absolute limit right now (See: the trade deadline). Sheets + Leury to someone actually might be do-able, that's probably about that player's value. However, every one of those moves leaves the White Sox needing someone to replace them. Great we removed Kelly - who is replacing him? Another $5 million reliever? Their bullpen has an opening now. We removed Pollock, great, do we need to spend another $4 million on someone who can backup CF (probably yes, that person wouldn't be on the roster)? Great we removed Leury, is Sosa the only backup SS or do they have to spend $4 million on Andrus? Unfortunately - I think the answers are all in house or fliers. So Leury = Sosa + Romy Pollock = Colas mid-year Joe Kelly = some nobody scrub you try and revive. Personally I think that's a better option than keeping those guys and not resigning an Abreu or making a proper move and signing Conforto. In an ideal world Pollock is/was a 4th OF. As long as the Sox could stay healthy (haha) then you have Robert/Vaughn/Eloy/Conforto out there. Vaughn would be able to bounce between LF, RF, DH, 1B duties as necessary. Conforto on a pillow deal also allows you one more year of seeing Colas and allowing him to ease into action a bit. It's definitely not ideal ... but at this point I'm not sure other options really make sense. Sure you can offload Yaz at his absolute low point ... or trade Eloy hoping to get some value out of his hot last few months ... but in general these guys' values are not very strong right now and if you try too hard for payroll flexibility it'll result in an even worse team. I think we're between a rock and a hard place for 2022 depending on how you view the roster. It's not great, but i think the downside of trying to re-tool on the fly in 2023 is too high. Just let one year roll-off and then let's make some really serious directional changes into 2024. Ahhhh what a fun post to type as I hear Hahn talk about our "window" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said: It should not be mutually exclusive to feature speed and defense next to power. Those players typically aren't available, whether through trade or FA. You have to draft and develop them. Edited September 20, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 hour ago, T R U said: Why would anyone believe in this teams core? They faded and got demolished in the playoffs last season and then couldn't even win this lousy division this season. The roster is aging, injured, and under-performing and they have an owner who is more interested in hiring his buddies or ex players than actual competent managers. There is very little to raise hope with this organization. Lets be clear the old guys on this team are largely replaceable and reside in cheaper positions to fill. Abreu, Grandal and the bullpen is where the age comes from. All of the skill positions are young or in prime years. When I speak about core I talk to Moncada, Eloy, Robert, Cease, Anderson and Kopech. All you can make a pretty case will have better years ahead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 18 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Doesn't matter they can't help now when they need the help. Maybe Colas can play well next yr. but what is that 50/50? Same for Davis Martin. Sosa who knows, Romy same. Can Moncada, Grandal and Giolito get better more question mark. Can Eloy stay healthy ? Lynn is getting older, Pollock is an albatross. God only knows how the relief pitching fares from year to year. Is Anderson's life interfering with his baseball ? Can Kopech advance like Cease. Whats the plan for Crochet ? How in the world can the Sox shed money and get better in all those area they have to get better ? Has anyone seen anything about him starting to throw again? I feel like now is the time when we'd see "first throws", for example, there was video of Tanner MacDougal (our fifth round pick in 2021 who had TJS in April) throwing long toss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 They can be fixed just not by Rick Hahn. He'll never admit he was wrong and make the neccessary decisions needed to improve the team. He'll just run it back with a couple different utility players and bullpen arms and hope for better results. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, bmags said: Has anyone seen anything about him starting to throw again? I feel like now is the time when we'd see "first throws", for example, there was video of Tanner MacDougal (our fifth round pick in 2021 who had TJS in April) throwing long toss. He's been with Sox last few weeks and is throwing lightly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Colas will not win the job out of spring training, no matter how much they need him. He will magically get promoted say around late May, Early June to save some of Jerrys monies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 41 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said: Colas will not win the job out of spring training, no matter how much they need him. He will magically get promoted say around late May, Early June to save some of Jerrys monies. There was an injury that mattered, but they did promote Vaughn on day 1 even though he was not ready with the bats and also not an OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: They can be fixed just not by Rick Hahn. He'll never admit he was wrong and make the neccessary decisions needed to improve the team. He'll just run it back with a couple different utility players and bullpen arms and hope for better results. Bingo. No more Rick Hahn. He had his shot. Get someone in here from outside the organization who isn't so emotionally invested in some of these "core" guys. Sox ain't winning a world series any time soon but they can probably back door into a wild card berth or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 4 hours ago, southsideirish71 said: Colas will not win the job out of spring training, no matter how much they need him. He will magically get promoted say around late May, Early June to save some of Jerrys monies. He will almost certainly be up by May 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 4 hours ago, southsideirish71 said: Colas will not win the job out of spring training, no matter how much they need him. He will magically get promoted say around late May, Early June to save some of Jerrys monies. I don't know, they have a history of either signing guys to deals before Opening Day or putting them on the roster day 1 like Vaughn. Vaughn was making that 2021 opening day roster regardless of the Eloy injury. Mercedes was the one who benefited from that injury. The injury is what opened the door for Vaughn to play LF instead of DH/1B only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: There was an injury that mattered, but they did promote Vaughn on day 1 even though he was not ready with the bats and also not an OF. There were rumors before the injury that Vaughn was going to make that team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I don't know, they have a history of either signing guys to deals before Opening Day or putting them on the roster day 1 like Vaughn. Vaughn was making that 2021 opening day roster regardless of the Eloy injury. Mercedes was the one who benefited from that injury. The injury is what opened the door for Vaughn to play LF instead of DH/1B only. Yah, I mean classic White Sox would be to not call him up a month ago when we badly needed a CF then put him on the OD roster in 2023. Peak stupidity. At least wait the three damn weeks in 2023 at this point. Ortherwise dude should have been up since the day Schoop effectively ended Robert's season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Not even sure which thread is the best spot for this, but this one isn't bad. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinky Stanky Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: They can be fixed just not by Rick Hahn. He'll never admit he was wrong and make the neccessary decisions needed to improve the team. He'll just run it back with a couple different utility players and bullpen arms and hope for better results. Some of those bullpen flops (Graveman, Kelly, Bummer) throw filthy stuff but can't get enough people out to be relied on. That on Katz, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 On 9/20/2022 at 4:26 PM, T R U said: Why would anyone believe in this teams core? They faded and got demolished in the playoffs last season and then couldn't even win this lousy division this season. The roster is aging, injured, and under-performing and they have an owner who is more interested in hiring his buddies or ex players than actual competent managers. There is very little to raise hope with this organization. Their young core are a bunch of spazzballs. Try another country maybe like Dutch Antilles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Not even sure which thread is the best spot for this, but this one isn't bad. I've been preaching this for years. Bulls Gar Pax > White Sox Gar Pax Bulls Gar Pax overall tenure sucked ass and needed to go several years earlier, but at least they finished with a winning record and had some playoff success, albeit the beneficiaries of a possibly fixed NBA lottery. Hahn Ken have a losing record after ten years, zero playoff success, their farm system is ranked 26th, and their roster after next season is down to several higher quality players (Cease, Colas, Vaughn, Montgomery), including at least one who needs to get their act together (Moncada), and a few who need to return to health and somehow someway remain healthy (Robert, Kopech, Jimenez, Crochet). Edited September 21, 2022 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 (edited) On 9/20/2022 at 3:52 PM, kwill said: Is there a place where this thread is stored so we can look back at who said what for the next five years? Just want to know who really doesnt believe in the teams core. I am on the record as saying I don't believe in the team core. The team has a lot of work to become good I say. Pitching: Not necessarily the starters' fault, but they are modern baseball five inning wonders meaning the second half of the game is basically up for grabs on a nightly basis (cept for Dylan sometimes). Sox bullpen blows. Needs major work. Pitching not near contender status. Core: Moncada (I've given up; great defensive player tho so I would not be against keeping him, just realizing he ain't gonna hit like I once thought). Eloy: Love him but gets hurt so much. Got to somehow eliminate the injuries. Jose: 72 RBI isn't close to last year's total but I still think he can drive in 75-90 next season. His defense is better than people say. Still love him. Grandal: Ha. He's toast. Timmy: Love him lots; Gets hurt. Good guy to keep. 2B: Laughable. Get rid of all. Robert: Like him, gets hurt too much. Not so high on him anymore. Pollock: Laughable. Bye bye please. Sheets, Vaughn: If the Sox are gonna contend ever again they believe it or not are key. They either turn into studs, which they could, or they play the .250 20 HR game. If they emerge as all star types I'd be a little higher on sox future. I still say we're the new Baltimore Orioles. Going nowhere. p.s. I do like Cueto. He, Cease, Jose and Eloy had good years. Vaughn pretty good too for a 24-year-old. Cheers to him. Edited September 21, 2022 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: I've been preaching this for years. Bulls Gar Pax > White Sox Gar Pax Bulls Gar Pax overall tenure sucked ass and needed to go several years earlier, but at least they finished with a winning record and had some playoff success, albeit the beneficiaries of a possibly fixed NBA lottery. Hahn Ken have a losing record after ten years, zero playoff success, their farm system is ranked 26th, and their roster after next season is down to several higher quality players (Cease, Colas, Vaughn, Montgomery), including at least one who needs to get their act together (Moncada), and a few who need to return to health and somehow someway remain healthy (Robert, Kopech, Jimenez, Crochet). The end of GarPax tenure completely undercut everything good they did at the beginning with rose and the bench mob. There is no clear cut winner between them and KenHahn, both wildly underachieving for strange penny pinching reasons who could have made moves that would have put them into next stratosphere in Chicago 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 33 minutes ago, pcq said: Their young core are a bunch of spazzballs. Try another country maybe like Dutch Antilles. Aka Curacao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colome's Hat Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 I disagree. This team would be up by five or six games now if another manager was at the helm. Does the team have flaws? Yes. But we are seeing in front of our own eyes just how destructive La Russa was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 15 hours ago, Colome's Hat said: I disagree. This team would be up by five or six games now if another manager was at the helm. Does the team have flaws? Yes. But we are seeing in front of our own eyes just how destructive La Russa was. No way in hell would this team be up by 5 or 6 games with a different manager. Pure fantasy there. The only way Sox would be up big in the AL Central right now is if you put Aaron Judge, Trea Turner, and Carlos Rodon on the current roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 Just gonna leave this here. Will they even try to fix it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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