The White Sox cannot be fixed by next season

[reiks12]

It is pretty clear that the window is CLOSED. Cleveland pitching will always be dominant, we are seeing Cleveland young hitters starting to put together good OPS numbers with the more experience they are getting, one of the best bullpens in baseball. Their farm system is still ranked one of the best with an absurd number of top 100 prospects. 

Anyone think we will be relevant in 2 years? I am not feeling optimistic at all. Our farm is trash, our roster is old, crippling contracts all over, the FO is clueless and cant evaluate talent, injury prone players and no depth. 

It just feels like we are going to be .500 at best for the next 2-3 years until Hahn once again rebuilds. Yes it will be Hahn, because Jerry will outlive us all and thats how its going to be. 

[greg775]

40 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

It is pretty clear that the window is CLOSED. Cleveland pitching will always be dominant, we are seeing Cleveland young hitters starting to put together good OPS numbers with the more experience they are getting, one of the best bullpens in baseball. Their farm system is still ranked one of the best with an absurd number of top 100 prospects. 

Anyone think we will be relevant in 2 years? I am not feeling optimistic at all. Our farm is trash, our roster is old, crippling contracts all over, the FO is clueless and cant evaluate talent, injury prone players and no depth. 

It just feels like we are going to be .500 at best for the next 2-3 years until Hahn once again rebuilds. Yes it will be Hahn, because Jerry will outlive us all and thats how its going to be. 

You said it. Sox have no chance now for the first time in a while. Not counting the years when they were trying to lose, this is the bleakest future for the franchise in a long time. I don't even know what they can do. I would think if they can stay a .500 team that in itself would be a miracle. Play .500 and hope some guys emerge as stars like AV.

[Jack Parkman]

 

 

TIFWIW. 

[Balta1701]

28 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

 

TIFWIW. 

Elvis Andrus: “I would be willing to take a job if you paid me to do it.”

[VAfan]

The White Sox need to start over.  They have NO hitters, other than Abreu, that are able to play every day and are above average.

What could be the return if they traded:

1.  Luis Robert
2.  Tim Anderson
3.  Eloy Jimenez
4.  Yoan Moncada
5.  Yasmani Grandal
6.  Michael Kopech
7.  Lucas Giolito

Can you trade for healthy major leaguers who can play defense and hit right handed pitching?   Or do you have to start over with a haul of prospects and wait 2 years for them to mature?  

The team would have lost next to nothing this year without these players.   Sure, Anderson was an All-Star, and Jimenez is hot now, but neither one is going to play in even half of the games.  Robert has been hurt significant parts of the last 2 years.  Moncada has an albatross contract, as does Grandal, but maybe they could be offloaded as part of a package.  Kopech has some promise, but why not trade in on it?  It doesn't seem like it's going to bear fruit soon.  Giolito will be a free agent after next year.  

You could field a team with the leftovers.  Vaughn, Sheets, Burger, bring back Andrus, Gonzalez, Zavala, Engel, Pollock.  Only Vaughn has any trade value out of this group.  

I'm sure they won't do it.  But it's time to dump the underperforming, always hurt, overconfident guys who show no plate discipline or pitching consistency.  

If it is was JUST HEALTH that was the problem, you might HOPE for better health while trying to shore up depth.  But it's not JUST HEALTH.  It's the lefty-righty imbalance, poor fielding, and terrible plate discipline that give me NO hope the core of this team can turn it around, even with a new manager and new coaches.  
  

[Tnetennba]

45 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

 

TIFWIW. 

How wonderfully uninspiring…

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, VAfan said:

The White Sox need to start over.  They have NO hitters, other than Abreu, that are able to play every day and are above average.

What could be the return if they traded:

1.  Luis Robert
2.  Tim Anderson
3.  Eloy Jimenez
4.  Yoan Moncada
5.  Yasmani Grandal
6.  Michael Kopech
7.  Lucas Giolito

Can you trade for healthy major leaguers who can play defense and hit right handed pitching?   Or do you have to start over with a haul of prospects and wait 2 years for them to mature?  

The team would have lost next to nothing this year without these players.   Sure, Anderson was an All-Star, and Jimenez is hot now, but neither one is going to play in even half of the games.  Robert has been hurt significant parts of the last 2 years.  Moncada has an albatross contract, as does Grandal, but maybe they could be offloaded as part of a package.  Kopech has some promise, but why not trade in on it?  It doesn't seem like it's going to bear fruit soon.  Giolito will be a free agent after next year.  

You could field a team with the leftovers.  Vaughn, Sheets, Burger, bring back Andrus, Gonzalez, Zavala, Engel, Pollock.  Only Vaughn has any trade value out of this group.  

I'm sure they won't do it.  But it's time to dump the underperforming, always hurt, overconfident guys who show no plate discipline or pitching consistency.  

If it is was JUST HEALTH that was the problem, you might HOPE for better health while trying to shore up depth.  But it's not JUST HEALTH.  It's the lefty-righty imbalance, poor fielding, and terrible plate discipline that give me NO hope the core of this team can turn it around, even with a new manager and new coaches.  
  

1. Not enough to make him worth trading

2. I have no idea because of the lack of power this year. 

3. Not enough to make him worth trading

4-5. You want to take Hosmer or Corbin? Does that really make the Sox a better team? 

6. Not enough to make him worth trading

7. Salary dump

 

The Sox really don't have many options. There's either bring the band back together or burn it to the ground again. 

[DirtySox]

 

[The Kids Can Play]

31 minutes ago, VAfan said:

The White Sox need to start over.  They have NO hitters, other than Abreu, that are able to play every day and are above average.

What could be the return if they traded:

1.  Luis Robert
2.  Tim Anderson
3.  Eloy Jimenez
4.  Yoan Moncada
5.  Yasmani Grandal
6.  Michael Kopech
7.  Lucas Giolito

Can you trade for healthy major leaguers who can play defense and hit right handed pitching?   Or do you have to start over with a haul of prospects and wait 2 years for them to mature?  

The team would have lost next to nothing this year without these players.   Sure, Anderson was an All-Star, and Jimenez is hot now, but neither one is going to play in even half of the games.  Robert has been hurt significant parts of the last 2 years.  Moncada has an albatross contract, as does Grandal, but maybe they could be offloaded as part of a package.  Kopech has some promise, but why not trade in on it?  It doesn't seem like it's going to bear fruit soon.  Giolito will be a free agent after next year.  

You could field a team with the leftovers.  Vaughn, Sheets, Burger, bring back Andrus, Gonzalez, Zavala, Engel, Pollock.  Only Vaughn has any trade value out of this group.  

I'm sure they won't do it.  But it's time to dump the underperforming, always hurt, overconfident guys who show no plate discipline or pitching consistency.  

If it is was JUST HEALTH that was the problem, you might HOPE for better health while trying to shore up depth.  But it's not JUST HEALTH.  It's the lefty-righty imbalance, poor fielding, and terrible plate discipline that give me NO hope the core of this team can turn it around, even with a new manager and new coaches.  
  

I agree we need major changes and overhauling this roster. However even if you did trade all those names and did a new rebuild...is there anyone here who would be ok with Hahn making those trade decisions to determine what future young prospects we got back, based on his history of trades during this now and counting 6th year of the infamous 2016 rebuild?

[Bob Sacamano]

34 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

How wonderfully uninspiring…

Honestly just go in house at 2B if you can add a lefty OF. If not, maybe try for Kolten Wong.

[Tnetennba]

44 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Honestly just go in house at 2B if you can add a lefty OF. If not, maybe try for Kolten Wong.

Just feels like they are already hinting at doing the bare minimum again.  

[ScootsMcGoots]

1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

 

"They almost must decide whether or not to bring back TLR." 

What? Almost must decide? Um, if this is even really a debate internally, I will be convinced the front office doesn't care to win.

[The Mighty Mite]

1 hour ago, VAfan said:

The White Sox need to start over.  They have NO hitters, other than Abreu, that are able to play every day and are above average.

What could be the return if they traded:

1.  Luis Robert
2.  Tim Anderson
3.  Eloy Jimenez
4.  Yoan Moncada
5.  Yasmani Grandal
6.  Michael Kopech
7.  Lucas Giolito

Can you trade for healthy major leaguers who can play defense and hit right handed pitching?   Or do you have to start over with a haul of prospects and wait 2 years for them to mature?  

The team would have lost next to nothing this year without these players.   Sure, Anderson was an All-Star, and Jimenez is hot now, but neither one is going to play in even half of the games.  Robert has been hurt significant parts of the last 2 years.  Moncada has an albatross contract, as does Grandal, but maybe they could be offloaded as part of a package.  Kopech has some promise, but why not trade in on it?  It doesn't seem like it's going to bear fruit soon.  Giolito will be a free agent after next year.  

You could field a team with the leftovers.  Vaughn, Sheets, Burger, bring back Andrus, Gonzalez, Zavala, Engel, Pollock.  Only Vaughn has any trade value out of this group.  

I'm sure they won't do it.  But it's time to dump the underperforming, always hurt, overconfident guys who show no plate discipline or pitching consistency.  

If it is was JUST HEALTH that was the problem, you might HOPE for better health while trying to shore up depth.  But it's not JUST HEALTH.  It's the lefty-righty imbalance, poor fielding, and terrible plate discipline that give me NO hope the core of this team can turn it around, even with a new manager and new coaches.  
  

I'd love if they could trade Moncada but he's horrible with a couple of guaranteed years on his contract I believe for over 45 million dollars, who would take him off our hands.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I'd love if they could trade Moncada but he's horrible with a couple of guaranteed years on his contract I believe for over 45 million dollars, who would take him off our hands.

Just gotta hope he can bounce back offensively. I’m also not hitting him #2 next year to start the year.

[TheBooneLoganEra]

They can NOT rebuild yet again. There is no way in blue hell that talent evaluation would change enough, even with a front office overhaul, that another rebuild would work out better. And even the casual fans of this organization are beginning to tire of all this. Change the attitude and approach by reworking this roster. I'm all for trading TA, maybe throwing in a salary dump with him for a solid 2nd baseman. Let Elvis play short for a season, sign a Nimmo type and tinker here and there. Yes, I'm well aware they'll be their usual dumpster diving selves, but the thought of blowing it up again and waiting another 2 or 3 years to compete again is too much even for a lifer like myself. 

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Elvis Andrus: “I would be willing to take a job if you paid me to do it.”

That’s a better attitude than several on the club. If they sign him, I don’t think his bat will hold up at this age, but he is their best SS defender and they should move Tim to OF to play with Robert and Colas. I believe that’s his best position into FA and his 30s. He hurts you at SS now.

[Lip Man 1]

5 hours ago, ScooterMcGuire said:

"They almost must decide whether or not to bring back TLR." 

What? Almost must decide? Um, if this is even really a debate internally, I will be convinced the front office doesn't care to win.

The front office didn't make this decision in the first place and they won't now, it'll be the owner.

[The Beast]

8 hours ago, DirtySox said:

 

f*** you Nightengale. Why bring another manager out of retirement and replace one who should never have retired?

On another note, TLR presumably makes $4M annually?

6 hours ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

They can NOT rebuild yet again. There is no way in blue hell that talent evaluation would change enough, even with a front office overhaul, that another rebuild would work out better. And even the casual fans of this organization are beginning to tire of all this. Change the attitude and approach by reworking this roster. I'm all for trading TA, maybe throwing in a salary dump with him for a solid 2nd baseman. Let Elvis play short for a season, sign a Nimmo type and tinker here and there. Yes, I'm well aware they'll be their usual dumpster diving selves, but the thought of blowing it up again and waiting another 2 or 3 years to compete again is too much even for a lifer like myself. 

I wish people would stop suggesting a rebuild. It’s a dumb idea. A retool makes more sense.

[caulfield12]

10 hours ago, reiks12 said:

It is pretty clear that the window is CLOSED. Cleveland pitching will always be dominant, we are seeing Cleveland young hitters starting to put together good OPS numbers with the more experience they are getting, one of the best bullpens in baseball. Their farm system is still ranked one of the best with an absurd number of top 100 prospects. 

Anyone think we will be relevant in 2 years? I am not feeling optimistic at all. Our farm is trash, our roster is old, crippling contracts all over, the FO is clueless and cant evaluate talent, injury prone players and no depth. 

It just feels like we are going to be .500 at best for the next 2-3 years until Hahn once again rebuilds. Yes it will be Hahn, because Jerry will outlive us all and thats how its going to be. 

Just think how close they were to dealing Ramirez and or Bieber.

 

Just like Sox seats at the table with Harper Machado Wheeler.

Must have all gone to Hahn's head that he was considering himself an actual legit player in the top tier market.

Edited September 26, 2022 by caulfield12

[Big Hurtin]

On 9/25/2022 at 2:32 PM, Tnetennba said:

Just feels like they are already hinting at doing the bare minimum again.  

[VAfan]

On 9/25/2022 at 1:45 PM, The Kids Can Play said:

I agree we need major changes and overhauling this roster. However even if you did trade all those names and did a new rebuild...is there anyone here who would be ok with Hahn making those trade decisions to determine what future young prospects we got back, based on his history of trades during this now and counting 6th year of the infamous 2016 rebuild?

Hahn made some good deals in his time.  The trade of Quintana for Jimenez and Cease was a total steal.   As was what he got from Washington for Adam Eaton, even if Giolito has been up and down.  The Sale trade has paid lesser dividends, but then Sale has mostly been hurt for Boston.  Even the fiasco with Fernando Tatis Jr is looking less atrocious because Tatis is even less healthy than Tim Anderson, is on a PED suspension, and has a $340M contract.  (Can they void it over the PEDs?)  

So I'm not sure I fault Hahn on the prospects trades as much as I do on his free agent signings (or lack thereof).  He made a good effort to build a roster, and if they could stay healthy, they would have competed this year.  It's been the deals for Keuchel after they lost out on the pitcher who went to Philly, the unwillingness to tag Rodon, the signing of Joe Kelly, the trade for Kimbrel/Pollock (though it's not as if Madrigal has amounted to anything, and he's hurt again), the failure to pay attention to defense and left handedness, that have undermined the team.  

[VAfan]

19 hours ago, The Beast said:

f*** you Nightengale. Why bring another manager out of retirement and replace one who should never have retired?

On another note, TLR presumably makes $4M annually?

I wish people would stop suggesting a rebuild. It’s a dumb idea. A retool makes more sense.

The thing about a "retool" is that if you trade the guys on my list above, you aren't likely going to get MORE productive major league players back.  Teams want to IMPROVE by trade.  So they aren't going to trade you a Tim Anderson who plays 145 games for one who played 80 this year, and never more than 120.  Same for Jimenez and Robert, Moncada and Grandal, and Kopech.   They will trade you prospects, however.  The question is how far away will those prospects be?  

I could see dumping all the top guys for players a year away, then playing our backups to give them experience and see if any turned out.  Bring up Colas and Cespedes for the outfield.  We would be bad, but maybe not KC bad.   

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, VAfan said:

The thing about a "retool" is that if you trade the guys on my list above, you aren't likely going to get MORE productive major league players back.  Teams want to IMPROVE by trade.  So they aren't going to trade you a Tim Anderson who plays 145 games for one who played 80 this year, and never more than 120.  Same for Jimenez and Robert, Moncada and Grandal, and Kopech.   They will trade you prospects, however.  The question is how far away will those prospects be?  

I could see dumping all the top guys for players a year away, then playing our backups to give them experience and see if any turned out.  Bring up Colas and Cespedes for the outfield.  We would be bad, but maybe not KC bad.   

Cespedes will never be a big league regular.  Same with Yolbert.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, VAfan said:

Hahn made some good deals in his time.  The trade of Quintana for Jimenez and Cease was a total steal.   As was what he got from Washington for Adam Eaton, even if Giolito has been up and down.  The Sale trade has paid lesser dividends, but then Sale has mostly been hurt for Boston.  Even the fiasco with Fernando Tatis Jr is looking less atrocious because Tatis is even less healthy than Tim Anderson, is on a PED suspension, and has a $340M contract.  (Can they void it over the PEDs?)  

So I'm not sure I fault Hahn on the prospects trades as much as I do on his free agent signings (or lack thereof).  He made a good effort to build a roster, and if they could stay healthy, they would have competed this year.  It's been the deals for Keuchel after they lost out on the pitcher who went to Philly, the unwillingness to tag Rodon, the signing of Joe Kelly, the trade for Kimbrel/Pollock (though it's not as if Madrigal has amounted to anything, and he's hurt again), the failure to pay attention to defense and left handedness, that have undermined the team.  

3. Fernando Tatis Jr. -- Padres
2022 HR total: N/A | Career high: 42 (2021)

Well, OK, it’s obviously not happening this year. It might be tough for him next year, too, considering he will have some games remaining on his 80-game suspension at the beginning of the season. (How many depends on how far the Padres go in the playoffs, if they make it.) But don’t kid yourself: Tatis is a player with monstrous power. Remember, he had an NL-leading 42 homers last year despite playing in only 130 games … and he was 22! Tatis is also under contract until Albert Pujols is 54 years old, so, uh, he should have plenty of opportunities. Sure, right now it's a rough period for him and his relationship with his team. But that’s the thing about being young -- you can always turn it around.

 

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