Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[joejoesox]

started a new job delivering MJ across the whole state, saving up to fix my car. 

ps. never buy a Volkswagen, do yourself a favor. it's been a nightmare. 

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

Keep Moncada??? They have no  choice. He is Alex Rios with endless injuries. He is barely competent. 

Moncada is going to put up over 1 fWAR in around 100 games this season. In his previous 2 full seasons, he was worth 5.5 and 4.0 fWAR. He’s not a perfect player but he’s more than competent, and frankly, he’s one of the few guys on this team that provides the Sox with attributes in areas they’re generally awful at. A portion of this fan base has lost all ability to be objective towards Yoan. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Moncada is going to put up over 1 fWAR in around 100 games this season. In his previous 2 full seasons, he was worth 5.5 and 4.0 fWAR. He’s not a perfect player but he’s more than competent, and frankly, he’s one of the few guys on this team that provides the Sox with attributes in areas they’re generally awful at. A portion of this fan base has lost all ability to be objective towards Yoan. 

His contract is also big enough that he can’t be moved without either paying a lot of it, giving up something of value with him, or taking someone quite bad back. Montgomery and Moncada going out doesn’t make this team better, and Moncada for Hosmer or Corbin doesn’t make them better.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

This is probably the most realistic option we are looking at here. Pollock is not going to decline that option though. Unless you're saying he goes in a move for another bad reliever I suppose.

Yeah, probably right here but guy might be willing to get outta this org and take a small pay cut to go elsewhere lol. 

Reylo in the pen too. Forgot him.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

His contract is also big enough that he can’t be moved without either paying a lot of it, giving up something of value with him, or taking someone quite bad back. Montgomery and Moncada going out doesn’t make this team better, and Moncada for Hosmer or Corbin doesn’t make them better.

Corbin Carroll sure does, though.

[caulfield12]

Dumping Moncada for Burger

Sheets vs. Nimmo/Conforto

Trading Hendriks/Graveman, installing Lopez as closer

5th starter…heck, is Giolito viable going forward?  Davis Martin?  Who in God’s name can they actually afford?

Retaining Abreu vs. moving Vaughn there.

Dump Grandal vs. run him out there 2-3 months.  Can Zavala repeat being a somewhat viable player?

Moving on from Andrus Harrison Engel Mendick, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[Timmy U]

Most depressing thread ever. $9 mil for Joe Kelly?!  There are no easy fixes.  They really don’t have the payroll flex to get an impact bat, and we’ve all seen how bad they are at shopping in the middle of the market.  I would keep Eloy, pray for a healthy Robert, make Colas the RF, trade Pollock while eating money.  Moncada seems to be immovable.  I want to blow this up, so I am willing to trade Vaughn, TA, Hendricks, Giolito, Lynn.  Obviously, guys like Sheets, Burger, etc won’t get you much, but I am open for business.  I think this is a 2 to 3 year project to get this team back on track. 

[Chicago White Sox]

It’s very hard to say how to proceed forward without knowing the budget.  That being said, our needs are painfully obvious.

1. Replace Tony with a competent manager
2. Insert a new, modern day hitting coach
3. Get all the 1B/DH types out of the OF
4. Add a LH hitting OF to pair with Colas
5. Acquire another quality SP (#3 type)

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love adding a LH bat at 2B as well, but between Romy, Sosa, & Popeye it’s hard to imagine us investing heavily there.

The biggest single decision that needs to be made is Abreu vs. Vaughn.  I really struggle with the concept of losing a guy who plays everyday and provides 139 wRC+ type production and somehow being better.  That being said, the fact he will be 36 next year and will probably want $15M+ should force our hand here (although likely won’t with Jerry in charge).  His exit finally allows for Vaughn at 1B and Eloy at DH where they both belong.

With that settled, we really only need two moves.  To me, Nimmo is the guy we should be targeting for the OF.  He doesn’t have a great arm and probably isn’t the best fit for RF long-term, but he can play there until Colas is ready.  Once Oscar is called up in May, Nimmo shifts over to LF and Pollock moves to a 4th OF role.  All that being said, I fully expect the Sox to go cheaper here.  Conforto, Gallo, Joc, or Bellinger (who I expect will get non-tendered) all seem right up our alley and will be considerably less expensive.

As for adding a SP, no idea what we do here, but we desperately need to add at this spot and it can’t be a VV type.  I also think bringing back Cueto would be a mistake at his age.  Unfortunately, there aren’t a lot of sure-fire #3 SPs in this year’s free agent class.  A lot of the guys who could theoretically make sense have legit question marks.  A savvy GM would evaluate a group that includes Clevinger, Thor, Manaea, & Eovaldi and pick the one who will put up 4+ wins next years.  That’s not Rick Hahn, who is more likely going to bet that Cueto or Quintana will repeat out of nowhere performances in their mid to late 30’s.

That brings me to my last point which is that none of this really matters with Rick Hahn leading the charge.  His past twelve months is some of the worst GMing I have ever seen.  I can appreciate he got saddled with La Russa, who probably had more influence over roster decisions than many are willing to acknowledge.  That being said, he is still the architect of this s%*#-show and has ignored the same handful of issues for years (lack of pitching depth, little LH hitting, playing guys out of position, etc).  And even if you can’t fully blame him for signing obvious Tony guys like Leury & Kelly, he’s the guy negotiating the contracts and those are two of the worst deals I have ever seen at a conceptual level.  If I could only have one move this off-season, it would be hiring someone like Mike Chernoff as President of Baseball Ops and let him install a brand new front office.  Rick has proven time & time again that he can’t scout and lacks the vision to build a quality top-to-bottom organization.  It’s officially time to get rid of this clown so we can start dominating the weakest division in all of sports.

[caulfield12]

51 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s very hard to say how to proceed forward without knowing the budget.  That being said, our needs are painfully obvious.

1. Replace Tony with a competent manager
2. Insert a new, modern day hitting coach
3. Get all the 1B/DH types out of the OF
4. Add a LH hitting OF to pair with Colas
5. Acquire another quality SP (#3 type)

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love adding a LH bat at 2B as well, but between Romy, Sosa, & Popeye it’s hard to imagine us investing heavily there.

The biggest single decision that needs to be made is Abreu vs. Vaughn.  I really struggle with the concept of losing a guy who plays everyday and provides 139 wRC+ type production and somehow being better.  That being said, the fact he will be 36 next year and will probably want $15M+ should force our hand here (although likely won’t with Jerry in charge).  His exit finally allows for Vaughn at 1B and Eloy at DH where they both belong.

With that settled, we really only need two moves.  To me, Nimmo is the guy we should be targeting for the OF.  He doesn’t have a great arm and probably isn’t the best fit for RF long-term, but he can play there until Colas is ready.  Once Oscar is called up in May, Nimmo shifts over to LF and Pollock moves to a 4th OF role.  All that being said, I fully expect the Sox to go cheaper here.  Conforto, Gallo, Joc, or Bellinger (who I expect will get non-tendered) all seem right up our alley and will be considerably less expensive.

As for adding a SP, no idea what we do here, but we desperately need to add at this spot and it can’t be a VV type.  I also think bringing back Cueto would be a mistake at his age.  Unfortunately, there aren’t a lot of sure-fire #3 SPs in this year’s free agent class.  A lot of the guys who could theoretically make sense have legit question marks.  A savvy GM would evaluate a group that includes Clevinger, Thor, Manaea, & Eovaldi and pick the one who will put up 4+ wins next years.  That’s not Rick Hahn, who is more likely going to bet that Cueto or Quintana will repeat out of nowhere performances in their mid to late 30’s.

That brings me to my last point which is that none of this really matters with Rick Hahn leading the charge.  His past twelve months is some of the worst GMing I have ever seen.  I can appreciate he got saddled with La Russa, who probably had more influence over roster decisions than many are willing to acknowledge.  That being said, he is still the architect of this s%*#-show and has ignored the same handful of issues for years (lack of pitching depth, little LH hitting, playing guys out of position, etc).  And even if you can’t fully blame him for signing obvious Tony guys like Leury & Kelly, he’s the guy negotiating the contracts and those are two of the worst deals I have ever seen at a conceptual level.  If I could only have one move this off-season, it would be hiring someone like Mike Chernoff as President of Baseball Ops and let him install a brand new front office.  Rick has proven time & time again that he can’t scout and lacks the vision to build a quality top-to-bottom organization.  It’s officially time to get rid of this clown so we can start dominating the weakest division in all of sports.

Doesn't divisional domination matter much less now than ever before starting next year...going away from unbalanced 19 x 4/68 game scheduling format?

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s very hard to say how to proceed forward without knowing the budget.  That being said, our needs are painfully obvious.

….

With that settled, we really only need two moves.  To me, Nimmo is the guy we should be targeting for the OF.  He doesn’t have a great arm and probably isn’t the best fit for RF long-term, but he can play there until Colas is ready.  Once Oscar is called up in May, Nimmo shifts over to LF and Pollock moves to a 4th OF role.  All that being said, I fully expect the Sox to go cheaper here.  Conforto, Gallo, Joc, or Bellinger (who I expect will get non-tendered) all seem right up our alley and will be considerably less expensive.

As for adding a SP, no idea what we do here, but we desperately need to add at this spot and it can’t be a VV type.  I also think bringing back Cueto would be a mistake at his age.  Unfortunately, there aren’t a lot of sure-fire #3 SPs in this year’s free agent class.  A lot of the guys who could theoretically make sense have legit question marks.  A savvy GM would evaluate a group that includes Clevinger, Thor, Manaea, & Eovaldi and pick the one who will put up 4+ wins next years.  That’s not Rick Hahn, who is more likely going to bet that Cueto or Quintana will repeat out of nowhere performances in their mid to late 30’s.

There is some unavoidable math.

1. The white Sox payroll in 2022 was $195 million. Their luxury tax number is $210 million - with the tax at $230.

2. They have $170 million already committed for next year, give or take change. That leaves them about $25 million to spend to match this years’ payroll and $47 million or so to the luxury tax.

3. Your setup of both Nimmo and a mid rotation arm blows past the current payroll and nearly gets to the tax line.

We may not know the budget but I think it’s fair to be skeptical that they will massively increase payroll up to the tax line. That leaves some options:

-Trade for guys that are cheaper
-Sign a Velasquez type back of the rotation guy instead of a mid rotation guy
-Sign a cheaper OF than Nimmo.

[ChiSox59]

11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

His contract is also big enough that he can’t be moved without either paying a lot of it, giving up something of value with him, or taking someone quite bad back. Montgomery and Moncada going out doesn’t make this team better, and Moncada for Hosmer or Corbin doesn’t make them better.

This too, though I don’t think Moncadas contract is Hosmer or Corbin bad. Sox would basically have to give him away, but don’t think they’d have to eat much, if any, $. Point is, Moncada is going nowhere. Sox are so much better off just hoping he can be a 3+ WAR player next year, while being the best infield defender they have, and hopefully, at least an average bat with upside for more. It’s in there. 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

There is some unavoidable math.

1. The white Sox payroll in 2022 was $195 million. Their luxury tax number is $210 million - with the tax at $230.

2. They have $170 million already committed for next year, give or take change. That leaves them about $25 million to spend to match this years’ payroll and $47 million or so to the luxury tax.

3. Your setup of both Nimmo and a mid rotation arm blows past the current payroll and nearly gets to the tax line.

We may not know the budget but I think it’s fair to be skeptical that they will massively increase payroll up to the tax line. That leaves some options:

-Trade for guys that are cheaper
-Sign a Velasquez type back of the rotation guy instead of a mid rotation guy
-Sign a cheaper OF than Nimmo.

I fully expect them to address these holes on the cheap and simply pray for better health and/or rebound seasons.  My guess is Joc or Gallo for the OF seems inevitable.  Throw in a starter on a 1/$8M deal and that could very well be our off-season.  

Unfortunately, when your bullpen & bench are nearly the same size as the entire Guardians’ payroll, it tends to hamper your ability to make big moves.

[chetkincaid]

3 hours ago, Timmy U said:

Most depressing thread ever. $9 mil for Joe Kelly?!  There are no easy fixes.  They really don’t have the payroll flex to get an impact bat, and we’ve all seen how bad they are at shopping in the middle of the market.  I would keep Eloy, pray for a healthy Robert, make Colas the RF, trade Pollock while eating money.  Moncada seems to be immovable.  I want to blow this up, so I am willing to trade Vaughn, TA, Hendricks, Giolito, Lynn.  Obviously, guys like Sheets, Burger, etc won’t get you much, but I am open for business.  I think this is a 2 to 3 year project to get this team back on track. 

If you’re going to blow it up and rebuild from scratch (Which is what I want them to do), you trade Cease too. Who knows if he’ll still be good by the time the Sox are ready to compete again. Plus a team would give up a lot for him. 

[Chicago White Sox]

28 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Doesn't divisional domination matter much less now than ever before starting next year...going away from unbalanced 19 x 4/68 game scheduling format?

We are still competing for a playoff spot against teams with less financial resources than us.  And only the Indians are a truly great organization.  We should have a huge advantage over the other clubs in the Central, but alas we have one of the worst owners in baseball.

[Middle Buffalo]

I feel like we’re pretty much stuck with the same roster next year. Since almost everyone underachieved this year, that might not be a terrible thing.

They have to break up the DH/1B/LF logjam. I can’t imagine they will not sign Abreu, but that’s probably the smart move.

Let Abreu go & move Vaughn to 1B full time.

I don’t think they’ll get much for Sheets, but he should be moved. Package him with one of the overpriced middle relievers. Take back someone else’s junk OF/2B that doesn’t fit their roster and hope for the best. 

Burger can be a backup 1B/3B or he should be traded.

Eloy is a full time DH.

Probably stuck with Pollack in LF. Colas in RF.

Im sure they’ll go with one of the young guys at 2B - probably Romy.

Biggest change they should make is the coaching staff. Kick TLR upstairs. He doesn’t deserve it, but it’s what will happen. 

I doubt Hahn will go. Maybe he should be allowed to pick the manager this time?

[Kyyle23]

A.  Identify weaknesses

B.  Address weaknesses 

/fin 

[poppysox]

26 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I fully expect them to address these holes on the cheap and simply pray for better health and/or rebound seasons.  My guess is Joc or Gallo for the OF seems inevitable.  Throw in a starter on a 1/$8M deal and that could very well be our off-season.  

Unfortunately, when your bullpen & bench are nearly the same size as the entire Guardians’ payroll, it tends to hamper your ability to make big moves.

If Hahn is back and I think he will be...I expect our off season to be Tony retires for health reasons and we pray for better health.  A new manager brings in a mostly new coaching staff and we part ways with Jose.  Vaughn is our 1st baseman with Eloy the DH.  We bring up Colas and we see hope for a better season.  

[ChiSox59]

57 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I fully expect them to address these holes on the cheap and simply pray for better health and/or rebound seasons.  My guess is Joc or Gallo for the OF seems inevitable.  Throw in a starter on a 1/$8M deal and that could very well be our off-season.  

Unfortunately, when your bullpen & bench are nearly the same size as the entire Guardians’ payroll, it tends to hamper your ability to make big moves.

The other thing that you at least have to consider it as it pertains to signing a higher end FA like Nimmo (higher end all relative, he may be the biggest contract in club history or close, but certainly isn’t a superstar) is that the Sox have a lot of $ coming off the books in 2024. Sure spending $18-20M on Nimmo and a solid SP like Manea May push then up close to the tax in 2023, but Sox have around $70M coming off the books the next season with Lynn, Grandal, Giolito, Pollock, Kelly and Diekman. Raises will eat up a chunk of that, but Sox have some longer term payroll space if they’re willing to stretch it for a year. I get the skepticism, but this is still their window. 

[Jack Parkman]

If all they did was sign Nimmo, Andrus and Manaea/Quintana I'd be ok with that. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[TheFutureIsNear]

Are there any LH OF’ers that are realistic trade targets this off-season? I’m looking at it seems pretty slim pickings. I know it’s easy to say to just sign Nimmo or someone of the likes, but we’ve all been disappointed year after year with the Sox ability to sign free agents. Especially ones that will have a wide market. Not ideal, but I would use Crochet as a trade chip, I think he could fetch something decent from a bad team if paired with a lower level prospect or 2

[Chicago White Sox]

22 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The other thing that you at least have to consider it as it pertains to signing a higher end FA like Nimmo (higher end all relative, he may be the biggest contract in club history or close, but certainly isn’t a superstar) is that the Sox have a lot of $ coming off the books in 2024. Sure spending $18-20M on Nimmo and a solid SP like Manea May push then up close to the tax in 2023, but Sox have around $70M coming off the books the next season with Lynn, Grandal, Giolito, Pollock, Kelly and Diekman. Raises will eat up a chunk of that, but Sox have some longer term payroll space if they’re willing to stretch it for a year. I get the skepticism, but this is still their window. 

It is but I am worried about the lack of playoff revenue causing us to maintain or slightly drop payroll.  Hope I’m wrong.

[Balta1701]

20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The other thing that you at least have to consider it as it pertains to signing a higher end FA like Nimmo (higher end all relative, he may be the biggest contract in club history or close, but certainly isn’t a superstar) is that the Sox have a lot of $ coming off the books in 2024. Sure spending $18-20M on Nimmo and a solid SP like Manea May push then up close to the tax in 2023, but Sox have around $70M coming off the books the next season with Lynn, Grandal, Giolito, Pollock, Kelly and Diekman. Raises will eat up a chunk of that, but Sox have some longer term payroll space if they’re willing to stretch it for a year. I get the skepticism, but this is still their window. 

The counter point to pushing FA spending right now - yes they have lots of money off the books after next year, but they also have to replace those guys. Gio, Lynn, and Grandal clears $50 million yes, but it’s challenging to fill 2 starters and a starting catcher for that money. If the team were to go well into the red in ‘23, that could leave them having to actually rebuild in ‘24, including trading Cease to try to reload.

Might be the right move even, but worth considering that in advance.

[bmags]

34 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Are there any LH OF’ers that are realistic trade targets this off-season? I’m looking at it seems pretty slim pickings. I know it’s easy to say to just sign Nimmo or someone of the likes, but we’ve all been disappointed year after year with the Sox ability to sign free agents. Especially ones that will have a wide market. Not ideal, but I would use Crochet as a trade chip, I think he could fetch something decent from a bad team if paired with a lower level prospect or 2

Not really but I keep bringing up James Outman because in theory he shouldn’t cost much and he’s mostly blocked.

[Lip Man 1]

David Haugh tweeted that they interviewed Andrus this morning on the radio show and he said he wants to return to the Sox and is willing to play any position.

Even if the Sox wanted to I can't see it happening because the GM felt Garcia was worth a three-year contract for some bizarre reason.

 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s very hard to say how to proceed forward without knowing the budget.  That being said, our needs are painfully obvious.

1. Replace Tony with a competent manager
2. Insert a new, modern day hitting coach
3. Get all the 1B/DH types out of the OF
4. Add a LH hitting OF to pair with Colas
5. Acquire another quality SP (#3 type)

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love adding a LH bat at 2B as well, but between Romy, Sosa, & Popeye it’s hard to imagine us investing heavily there.

The biggest single decision that needs to be made is Abreu vs. Vaughn.  I really struggle with the concept of losing a guy who plays everyday and provides 139 wRC+ type production and somehow being better.  That being said, the fact he will be 36 next year and will probably want $15M+ should force our hand here (although likely won’t with Jerry in charge).  His exit finally allows for Vaughn at 1B and Eloy at DH where they both belong.

With that settled, we really only need two moves.  To me, Nimmo is the guy we should be targeting for the OF.  He doesn’t have a great arm and probably isn’t the best fit for RF long-term, but he can play there until Colas is ready.  Once Oscar is called up in May, Nimmo shifts over to LF and Pollock moves to a 4th OF role.  All that being said, I fully expect the Sox to go cheaper here.  Conforto, Gallo, Joc, or Bellinger (who I expect will get non-tendered) all seem right up our alley and will be considerably less expensive.

As for adding a SP, no idea what we do here, but we desperately need to add at this spot and it can’t be a VV type.  I also think bringing back Cueto would be a mistake at his age.  Unfortunately, there aren’t a lot of sure-fire #3 SPs in this year’s free agent class.  A lot of the guys who could theoretically make sense have legit question marks.  A savvy GM would evaluate a group that includes Clevinger, Thor, Manaea, & Eovaldi and pick the one who will put up 4+ wins next years.  That’s not Rick Hahn, who is more likely going to bet that Cueto or Quintana will repeat out of nowhere performances in their mid to late 30’s.

That brings me to my last point which is that none of this really matters with Rick Hahn leading the charge.  His past twelve months is some of the worst GMing I have ever seen.  I can appreciate he got saddled with La Russa, who probably had more influence over roster decisions than many are willing to acknowledge.  That being said, he is still the architect of this s%*#-show and has ignored the same handful of issues for years (lack of pitching depth, little LH hitting, playing guys out of position, etc).  And even if you can’t fully blame him for signing obvious Tony guys like Leury & Kelly, he’s the guy negotiating the contracts and those are two of the worst deals I have ever seen at a conceptual level.  If I could only have one move this off-season, it would be hiring someone like Mike Chernoff as President of Baseball Ops and let him install a brand new front office.  Rick has proven time & time again that he can’t scout and lacks the vision to build a quality top-to-bottom organization.  It’s officially time to get rid of this clown so we can start dominating the weakest division in all of sports.

Hiring Mike Chernoff from Cleveland and making him President of Baseball Ops would be a massive HOME RUN and the start of building the White Sox into a championship team and one of the greatest executive moves in White Sox history.

Chernoff checks all the boxes.

1. Graduated from Princeton University with a degree in Economics.
2. Played shortstop at Princeton 
3. Took an internship with Cleveland, right after graduating from Princeton.  As a result, he has risen through the Cleveland organization from the ground floor level performing all type of FO duties. 

His first job - Intern to Asst. GM 

- He was responsible for starting the analytics dept. which Cleveland did not have.
- Assisted in trade negotiations and arbitration dealings.
- Interacted with pro scouts and input their reports into the organization's system
- Assisted in just about every major FO activity

As a result, was hired and promoted full time in the following roles:

- Asst. Director of Baseball Ops
- Director of Baseball Ops
- Asst. General Manager
- General Manager

The accomplishments:

- Has the youngest baseball team in MLB (Only two players over 30 yrs old)
- Promoted 14 rookies to big league roster, #1 most rookies in 2022
- Working with the 27th ranked payroll (66 million)
- Produced first place 84-67 W-L division record
- Built the #3 ranked farm system

It's really simple! You take Chernoff who has performed all the necessary front office critical duties in a winning organization, where they didn't have the money to spend and had to be great at scouting, drafting and developing their prospects in the farm system...and then you let him actually spend serious money, like a team in the #3 largest market should be spending...and you have the start of something BIG!

I know Reinsdorf is probably too demented, ignorant and stubborn to see this logic and make this kind of bold move, but this kind of move is so desperately needed. 

The fact is, this major FO move needs to occur long before you can talk about all your trades, FA signings, arbitration signings, bringing up players from the farm system, etc.

Since this loser owner isn't going anywhere until he dies, you need to get this organization FIXED at the TOP and work down! Note to Jerry: this guy would need 100 percent control without you getting at all involved, other than you handing him his total budget and payroll!