Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Joc is an awful OF. We’ve seen enough of that garbage. 

It would be very white Sox to replace Sheets with Pederson and have it be a defensive downgrade.

[reiks12]

11 hours ago, soxfaninfl said:

Also, don't be so quick to think we should emulate the Guardians. It's funny to me to read all the hand-wringing here about Cleveland and all their rookies, all their team development, while ignoring one big fact - Cleveland has the best position player in the division. Take him out of their lineup for any reason and the wheels could come off Cleveland pretty fast. Cleveland does what it does because it has to. I tip my hat, honestly, but I also feel this team is built around Jose Ramirez. If the Sox want to emulate anything, it should be this. The Sox have the pieces. The Sox needed to do a better job building around those pieces and, yes, put somebody else in charge.

I think Cleveland is going to be even better next season and thats without making any free agent additions to their club. 

Do you see any bad contracts other than Shaw? 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-guardians/payroll/

EVERYONE Is either in ARB or PREARB, its crazy how good their front office is, mind blowing. To say its all because of Ramirez is just wrong in my opinion.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, reiks12 said:

I think Cleveland is going to be even better next season and thats without making any free agent additions to their club. 

Do you see any bad contracts other than Shaw? 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-guardians/payroll/

EVERYONE Is either in ARB or PREARB, its crazy how good their front office is, mind blowing. To say its all because of Ramirez is just wrong in my opinion.

Kwan, Rosario (only one going into FA after next year), Gonzalez and likely Brennan all really solid players.  Gimenez is secretly a stud, second best player.  And Straw has finally been dangerous the last 4-6 weeks like they envisioned with the early extension.

Great pen if Karinchak is actually back again at 100%.  And cheap as heck.

The big question is whether they try to hold onto Bieber.  Civale and Plesac to be cast aside for better pitchers, and soon.  Tried to shed at the deadline.

.

[soxfaninfl]

2 hours ago, reiks12 said:

I think Cleveland is going to be even better next season and thats without making any free agent additions to their club. 

Do you see any bad contracts other than Shaw? 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-guardians/payroll/

EVERYONE Is either in ARB or PREARB, its crazy how good their front office is, mind blowing. To say its all because of Ramirez is just wrong in my opinion.

I am not suggesting Cleveland doesn't have good players. Yes, Gimenez is a stud but to me, but this Guardian team is a lot like what the Sox tried to do around Frank for years. And I still say, you take Ramirez out of that lineup, it just isn't that dangerous or scary.

However, did we try to build this team to compete against just the Guardians? Isn't the aim a little higher? Or do you think this Cleveland team is really a threat to the powers in MLB? Sure, Cleveland has done a great and wonderful job with the limitations they face as a small market team. As I said, I tip my hat. I still, however, remain steadfast in my belief the Sox have the better and deeper core. Better managing, better player choices to build around the core, and, yes, better health and we shouldn't have to worry about the Guardians.

A lot more worry about what the Twins and Tigers might do this offseason.

 

[hi8is]

It’s pretty comical how horrible this team was. ?

Easily the biggest disappointment in baseball but to those following along and “reading the tea leaves” - it’s not all that surprising at all.

I remember in the 2022 prediction thread stating that I was afraid they’d finish in third place.

Fucking Clowns. This was the year of the 2022 Chicago Fucking Clowns.

[palehose1]

It would never happen but JR needs to reorganize the leadership (clean house). Revamp scouting, player development, baseball analytics etc. Offer Theo Epstein President of Baseball Operations - give him full authority and give the man equity / a percentage of ownership. JR needs someone to change the leadership and culture. You would have to entice Epstein by giving him some ownership.

[maloney.adam]

The Sox need to start making some changes to leadership. First TLR needs to retire. Second, KW needs to go. Give Hahn one more chance to hire a manager and retool this team but that’s it. I don’t trust him in making the right decisions but his hands have sort of been tied in this whole thing. Bruce Bochy would be better than TLR quite frankly even though he’s up there in age as well. The only way they can hire Hinch away from Detroit is if he’s let go from whoever they bring in as the new GM. Third, they need to start hiring some leadership and analytics and scouting personnel from outside the organization preferably from the TB organization. 

[Ducksnort]

Here's the plan...hear me out...SELL THE TEAM.

[fathom]

13 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

The Sox need to start making some changes to leadership. First TLR needs to retire. Second, KW needs to go. Give Hahn one more chance to hire a manager and retool this team but that’s it. I don’t trust him in making the right decisions but his hands have sort of been tied in this whole thing. Bruce Bochy would be better than TLR quite frankly even though he’s up there in age as well. The only way they can hire Hinch away from Detroit is if he’s let go from whoever they bring in as the new GM. Third, they need to start hiring some leadership and analytics and scouting personnel from outside the organization preferably from the TB organization. 

Come on, Hahn has had far too many chances here.  He sucks at his job.  Best thing he does is get people to believe he has no power.

[maloney.adam]

12 minutes ago, fathom said:

Come on, Hahn has had far too many chances here.  He sucks at his job.  Best thing he does is get people to believe he has no power.

I know but he’s going to be given another chance and screw it up again this offseason. Hopefully that will be the last straw and he’s gone next year.

Edited September 26, 2022 by maloney.adam

[pcq]

Focus will be on LH OF along with bringing Colas up. Otherwise you cannot really trust them to make good moves.

[Highland]

5 hours ago, palehose1 said:

It would never happen but JR needs to reorganize the leadership (clean house). Revamp scouting, player development, baseball analytics etc. Offer Theo Epstein President of Baseball Operations - give him full authority and give the man equity / a percentage of ownership. JR needs someone to change the leadership and culture. You would have to entice Epstein by giving him some ownership.

Something like this should have happened at the end of the 2011 season after the Ozzie fiasco. The memories of the 2005 Series were beginning to get hazy, and the franchise needed to head off in a new direction. Instead, they gave the manager's job to Robin Ventura in a truly dumb move. Otherwise, what you propose makes complete sense, but also like you said, it will never happen. Meanwhile, the franchise loses more credibility every day.

[Jack Parkman]

It's impossible to do this exercise without knowing Jerry's budget for 2023.

[Dick Allen]

I’m making everyone who had a hammy or groin injury take Pilates. I’m kicking Tony to be a full time greeter at the ballpark. Let him roam the parking lot before the game and crash tailgate parties. I’m firing Hahn and opening the wallet for Billy Beane, because even when JR goes cheap, he doesn’t go as cheap as Oakland and Billy will have a decent roster with a little more cash to play with. Let him bring in a manager and coaches, although I think Katz is a keeper. Have to let Jose go. See where Grandal is in spring training. If there is any leg issue, eat the contract. Get a real RF and 2B. You are going to need  at least one more starter. Billy would be good at finding one on the cheap. Pray Giolito bounces back. Light a candle for Joe Kelly. Hope Croceht can return and be effective,but don’t count on it. Talk to Diekman about how great retirement would be for him. 

[chw42]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I’m making everyone who had a hammy or groin injury take Pilates. I’m kicking Tony to be a full time greeter at the ballpark. Let him roam the parking lot before the game and crash tailgate parties. I’m firing Hahn and opening the wallet for Billy Beane, because even when JR goes cheap, he doesn’t go as cheap as Oakland and Billy will have a decent roster with a little more cash to play with. Let him bring in a manager and coaches, although I think Katz is a keeper. Have to let Jose go. See where Grandal is in spring training. If there is any leg issue, eat the contract. Get a real RF and 2B. You are going to need  at least one more starter. Billy would be good at finding one on the cheap. Pray Giolito bounces back. Light a candle for Joe Kelly. Hope Croceht can return and be effective,but don’t count on it. Talk to Diekman about how great retirement would be for him. 

Tony can go stand in LaRussa's Lounge during games. 

[The Kids Can Play]

On 9/25/2022 at 11:38 AM, soxfaninfl said:

Also, don't be so quick to think we should emulate the Guardians. It's funny to me to read all the hand-wringing here about Cleveland and all their rookies, all their team development, while ignoring one big fact - Cleveland has the best position player in the division. Take him out of their lineup for any reason and the wheels could come off Cleveland pretty fast. Cleveland does what it does because it has to. I tip my hat, honestly, but I also feel this team is built around Jose Ramirez. If the Sox want to emulate anything, it should be this. The Sox have the pieces. The Sox needed to do a better job building around those pieces and, yes, put somebody else in charge.

I think you are missing the point of why many of us hypothetically want a guy like Cleveland's Mike Chernoff. It is not to copy Cleveland's roster. The reason we want a guy like that is to steal away a rising young GM who understands how to build a roster with a small budget because he has to build from the draft and minors and not free agency. He took up 15 rookies to their roster this year. Getting a Chernoff is exactly what the LA Dodgers did several years ago when they recruited away Andrew Friedman from Tampa. He was a young rising GM at Tampa just like Chernoff in Cleveland and great at developing scouting, drafting and development of young talent in the minors. Like Cleveland, the Rays always had one of the smallest payrolls. 

The key here is the Dodgers recruited Friedman for his ability to build a team through the draft and build a farm system with a tiny budget. They made him president from a GM. The brilliant idea was now Friedman got to spend big money and go get top free agents and look what he has done. He has won a WS and been to second WS. He also and has the #2 ranked farm system. the Dodgers clearly are not only the winningest team but probably the strongest roster top to bottom. This is exactly why we would want Chernoff. He knows how to build a farm system and develop talent through proper scouting, drafting and coaching in the minors. However here is the bonus....Chernoff could now have a big payroll to spend which he doesn't have in Cleveland to go get free agents while still building and strengthening the Sox farm system, The Sox had the 7th highest payroll last year. Money wasn't the problem. The problem was the inept Rick Hahn spending the money poorly and stupidly on bad contracts through bad trades or free agent signings

It seems to me if you get a young and smart GM from a winning organization who has to do it through the minors with a small payroll....and now he can also spend big money, that seems like a possibility of copying what the Dodgers did. They call that "best practices!"

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

I’m making everyone who had a hammy or groin injury take Pilates. I’m kicking Tony to be a full time greeter at the ballpark. Let him roam the parking lot before the game and crash tailgate parties. I’m firing Hahn and opening the wallet for Billy Beane, because even when JR goes cheap, he doesn’t go as cheap as Oakland and Billy will have a decent roster with a little more cash to play with. Let him bring in a manager and coaches, although I think Katz is a keeper. Have to let Jose go. See where Grandal is in spring training. If there is any leg issue, eat the contract. Get a real RF and 2B. You are going to need  at least one more starter. Billy would be good at finding one on the cheap. Pray Giolito bounces back. Light a candle for Joe Kelly. Hope Croceht can return and be effective,but don’t count on it. Talk to Diekman about how great retirement would be for him. 

Don’t see any scenarios Billy Beane (or any other quality GM or manager with other job prospects) would want to move to Chicago and work under Jerry Reinsdorf. I have one more week of Fantasy Baseball, and then I’m pulling the plug on it all (Fantasy, Sox and MLB), at least until all three are completely out (Jerry, Hahn and Tony).

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Don’t see any scenarios Billy Beane (or any other quality GM or manager with other job prospects) would want to move to Chicago and work under Jerry Reinsdorf. I have one more week of Fantasy Baseball, and then I’m pulling the plug on it all (Fantasy, Sox and MLB), at least until all three are completely out (Jerry, Hahn and Tony).

The White Sox aren't stealing a top GM, but top GM's aren't born into those positions, they are hired from lower positions. This is why a solid search could be conducted, to identify promising candidates from lower levels in various organizations, and someone is then brought in who has a vision for how to fix this mess, top to bottom - not just player acquisition, but drafting, developing, training, everywhere else. And then that person is allowed to bring on their own staff and rebuild this foundering organization into something fitting their identity.

And yea, I know it won't happen and that drives me batty.

[South Side Hit Men]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

The White Sox aren't stealing a top GM, but top GM's aren't born into those positions, they are hired from lower positions. This is why a solid search could be conducted, to identify promising candidates from lower levels in various organizations, and someone is then brought in who has a vision for how to fix this mess, top to bottom - not just player acquisition, but drafting, developing, training, everywhere else. And then that person is allowed to bring on their own staff and rebuild this foundering organization into something fitting their identity.

And yea, I know it won't happen and that drives me batty.

Same should have happened in 2016 (both GM and manager). Manager search should have also happened in 2012 and 2021. 

Bottom line is Jerry just wants guys around he likes and can talk to. What happens on the field day to day and year to year is an afterthought, at best. 

[Lip Man 1]

46 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Same should have happened in 2016 (both GM and manager). Manager search should have also happened in 2012 and 2021. 

Bottom line is Jerry just wants guys around he likes and can talk to. What happens on the field day to day and year to year is an afterthought, at best. 

As long as he makes money that is true.

 

[caulfield12]

Or just hire Antonetti from CLE.

[hi8is]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Or just hire Antonetti from CLE.

Daddy like.

[TheBooneLoganEra]

Any chance in hell they go after Benintendi? Seems to make a lot of sense but we all know how much that means. 

[bmags]

20 hours ago, reiks12 said:

I think Cleveland is going to be even better next season and thats without making any free agent additions to their club. 

Do you see any bad contracts other than Shaw? 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-guardians/payroll/

EVERYONE Is either in ARB or PREARB, its crazy how good their front office is, mind blowing. To say its all because of Ramirez is just wrong in my opinion.

I will say the reason we can’t just emulate the guardians is they get an extra 1st rounder and extra million on intl to spend than the Sox every year.

Thats why I think people circling the braves have the right idea.

[caulfield12]

52 minutes ago, bmags said:

I will say the reason we can’t just emulate the guardians is they get an extra 1st rounder and extra million on intl to spend than the Sox every year.

Thats why I think people circling the braves have the right idea.

Negligible impacts at that draft position in supplemental.
 

But sure, Seattle, Atlanta, Toronto, Baltimore, St. Louis, SF, etc.

CLE, MIL, TB lower tier.