Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[caulfield12]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Negligible impacts at that draft position in supplemental.
 

But sure, Seattle, Atlanta, Toronto, Baltimore, St. Louis, SFG, etc.

CLE, MIL, TB lower tier.

 

[fathom]

1 hour ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

Any chance in hell they go after Benintendi? Seems to make a lot of sense but we all know how much that means. 

They’ve always loved him…good call

[chetkincaid]

First step is to make TLR retire. Not move up to the front office, not some “Special Advisor to the Owner” role. RETIRE. He should have no ties to the White Sox next year. Secondly, I’d pull KW into the office and tell him to either come up with a plan to fix this or retire. And thirdly, let KW have the last and final say over who is the GM, manager and coaches but I would hire someone else to fix the development of the young players. Give Chris Getz the help that he needs. 
 

As for the roster? Everyone including Cease is available. I’d try to turn the entire roster over with the exception of Robert and Colas. I’d trade Cease because you could get a lot of young talent for him. Get some young players who will be ready to compete. In 2-3 years. Focus on defense and pitching. Don’t worry about competing in 2023. Fix the organization and the farm, then compete. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, chetkincaid said:

First step is to make TLR retire. Not move up to the front office, not some “Special Advisor to the Owner” role. RETIRE. He should have no ties to the White Sox next year. Secondly, I’d pull KW into the office and tell him to either come up with a plan to fix this or retire. And thirdly, let KW have the last and final say over who is the GM, manager and coaches but I would hire someone else to fix the development of the young players. Give Chris Getz the help that he needs. 
 

As for the roster? Everyone including Cease is available. I’d try to turn the entire roster over with the exception of Robert and Colas. I’d trade Cease because you could get a lot of young talent for him. Get some young players who will be ready to compete. In 2-3 years. Focus on defense and pitching. Don’t worry about competing in 2023. Fix the organization and the farm, then compete. 

Then you’re advocating a rebuild, unless you can get AA and AAA prospects back. And most teams will be leery about trading those guys much closer to the majors.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, chetkincaid said:

First step is to make TLR retire. Not move up to the front office, not some “Special Advisor to the Owner” role. RETIRE. He should have no ties to the White Sox next year. Secondly, I’d pull KW into the office and tell him to either come up with a plan to fix this or retire. And thirdly, let KW have the last and final say over who is the GM, manager and coaches but I would hire someone else to fix the development of the young players. Give Chris Getz the help that he needs. 
 

As for the roster? Everyone including Cease is available. I’d try to turn the entire roster over with the exception of Robert and Colas. I’d trade Cease because you could get a lot of young talent for him. Get some young players who will be ready to compete. In 2-3 years. Focus on defense and pitching. Don’t worry about competing in 2023. Fix the organization and the farm, then compete. 

If the rumors about KW having already told JR he's done after 23 the threat you advocate is meaningless. And JR would never issue that type of ultimatum to him. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

They’ve always loved him…good call

But not really a difference maker anymore and he has to play left so then you have to trade Jimenez or Vaughn unless you cast Abreu aside to open DH and 1B.

That would also force Pollock to Raf where he simply isn't well suited.  And Sheets as a depth/trade piece, which is fine.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 9/24/2022 at 7:29 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

We are still competing for a playoff spot against teams with less financial resources than us.  And only the Indians are a truly great organization.  We should have a huge advantage over the other clubs in the Central, but alas we have one of the worst owners in baseball.

Bless you for you unbridled passion for even trying to figure out how the off season unfolds. As fans we have to expect the worst and think that the window is closed no matter how bad the division is. It's been apparent since the 2021 AS game. I know many key players especially Eloy and Robert have barely played and Robert's ability to fly in the OF and on the bases may have been affected forever by his injury in 2021. Didn't his sprint speed take hit this season ?

The Sox are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They might as well bring Colas up to start the season. I see no reason to think this team will be competing in 2028 so why worry about service time with him ? I wanted him up this season not only to get some time facing MLB pitching but also to get used to the OF at G Rate. Those things matter instead of a rookie doing it on the fly in May and watching him go through growing pains in the OF and hitting. Doing it this year might've given him an edge going into next year and why punt the beginning of the year doing the same thing again ? All wins matter and he can help win games a lot of different ways.

It would've been easier to evaluate him this year if he was brought up to be available for the playoffs this year.

[chw42]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

They’ve always loved him…good call

If they really liked him they should have traded for him from Boston. The Royals didn't give up very much for him. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

If they really liked him they should have traded for him from Boston. The Royals didn't give up very much for him. 

Or at least attempted to trade for him at the DDL.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Bless you for you unbridled passion for even trying to figure out how the off season unfolds. As fans we have to expect the worst and think that the window is closed no matter how bad the division is. It's been apparent since the 2021 AS game. I know many key players especially Eloy and Robert have barely played and Robert's ability to fly in the OF and on the bases may have been affected forever by his injury in 2021. Didn't his sprint speed take hit this season ?

The Sox are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They might as well bring Colas up to start the season. I see no reason to think this team will be competing in 2028 so why worry about service time with him ? I wanted him up this season not only to get some time facing MLB pitching but also to get used to the OF at G Rate. Those things matter instead of a rookie doing it on the fly in May and watching him go through growing pains in the OF and hitting. Doing it this year might've given him an edge going into next year and why punt the beginning of the year doing the same thing again ? All wins matter and he can help win games a lot of different ways.

It would've been easier to evaluate him this year if he was brought up to be available for the playoffs this year.

Right, plus, with the changes in shifting and throwing over to 1B a limited number of occasions, then Guardians’ emphasis on speed/defense and athleticism will provide them another huge advantage.

Unless unless unless they go back to the 2020-21 baseball again.

it hasn’t exactly stopped Judge, but he’s a unicorn. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Right, plus, with the changes in shifting and throwing over to 1B a limited number of occasions, then Guardians’ emphasis on speed/defense and athleticism will provide them another huge advantage.

Unless unless unless they go back to the 2020-21 baseball again.

it hasn’t exactly stopped Judge, but he’s a unicorn. 

And how long has it been since the Sox needed more LH position players? Then throw in when MLB started talking about banning the shift and the Players Assoc. showed they were in favor of it back in early March 2022 , that should've put an extra bee in Hahn's bonnet about acquiring more LHH .

Who was in favor of adding LHH at the Trade deadline ? ME . Like all the time making posts about it. Hahn did nothing when he had time before the season started to get more LHH but instead he gets RHH , aging AJ Pollock when the Dodgers are loaded with LHH youth in the minors. And people still defend that trade. And then doubled down on doing nothing about it at the AS break this year.

The rules changes are NEVER brought up to condemn Hahn but it should be added to the list.

Edited September 27, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
changed AS break to trade deadline

[chetkincaid]

11 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Then you’re advocating a rebuild, unless you can get AA and AAA prospects back. And most teams will be leery about trading those guys much closer to the majors.

I am 100% in favor of a full rebuild. 

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

I am 100% in favor of a full rebuild. 

You can't with the current front office leading it.

[GREEDY]

I'd hate to say it, but with the glut of vets coming off the books after 2023, I can see the Sox to targeting one of the OF that might be willing to take a one year deal.  Conforto, Gallo, JBJ, maybe even a Bellinger or Happ trade.

We all would prefer Nimmo or Benintendi, but I'm not sure there is a team in the league that won't be interested in them.  Even clubs with comfortably full outfields still probably dream of adding a platoon partner.  Both are going to get overpaid, and rightfully so.  Big money for seasons well into their mid 30s.   

After 2023 you will have a year of TA remaining, two years of Cease/Kopech and the RH3 (Rick Hahn Extension Three). IF the RH3 don't take major steps forward, I think it will be screaming for a new front office regime and a rebuild.  

 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I'd hate to say it, but with the glut of vets coming off the books after 2023, I can see the Sox to targeting one of the OF that might be willing to take a one year deal.  Conforto, Gallo, JBJ, maybe even a Bellinger or Happ trade.

We all would prefer Nimmo or Benintendi, but I'm not sure there is a team in the league that won't be interested in them.  Even clubs with comfortably full outfields still probably dream of adding a platoon partner.  Both are going to get overpaid, and rightfully so.  Big money for seasons well into their mid 30s.   

After 2023 you will have a year of TA remaining, two years of Cease/Kopech and the RH3 (Rick Hahn Extension Three). IF the RH3 don't take major steps forward, I think it will be screaming for a new front office regime and a rebuild.  

 

Bellinger will almost certainly be non-tendered by the Dodgers. His salary if they go to arbitration will be close to $20 million, he won't get half that on the FA market. He will also be available on a 1 year deal. 

[TheBooneLoganEra]

14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

But not really a difference maker anymore and he has to play left so then you have to trade Jimenez or Vaughn unless you cast Abreu aside to open DH and 1B.

That would also force Pollock to Raf where he simply isn't well suited.  And Sheets as a depth/trade piece, which is fine.

Eloy needs to be full time DH and Vaughn full time 1b. Give Jose a heartfelt thank you but it's time to transition. Sign a real right fielder as well and let Pollock fill in as needed for depth. Benintendi by himself not difference maker but a good piece if you're making a few moves.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Bellinger will almost certainly be non-tendered by the Dodgers. His salary if they go to arbitration will be close to $20 million, he won't get half that on the FA market. He will also be available on a 1 year deal. 

Why would anyone believe the White Sox could successfully or even possibly/realistically fix Bellinger?

We can't even excel with hitters successful elsewhere, let alone 2-3 years removed from that status.

[The Kids Can Play]

On 9/26/2022 at 8:50 AM, palehose1 said:

It would never happen but JR needs to reorganize the leadership (clean house). Revamp scouting, player development, baseball analytics etc. Offer Theo Epstein President of Baseball Operations - give him full authority and give the man equity / a percentage of ownership. JR needs someone to change the leadership and culture. You would have to entice Epstein by giving him some ownership.

I agree JR needs to clean house and bring in all new leadership and a entire new front office. However I wouldn't want Theo doing it.

If you are offering an ownership stake, JR would have much more probable success going with Andrew Friedman from the Dodgers. He knows how to build a winning club like he did for years in Tampa Bay with his usually smallest or near smallest payroll every year. His farm system were always near the top ranked yearly and never spent money on the free agent market. Then he went to the Dodgers where he could spend serious money, but still proved he could still build a farm system as Dodgers have the current #2 ranked farm system. I would make him our president of baseball ops and let him have a nice ownership stake...Jerry couldn't be involved for any decision other than the payroll budget. 

Yes Theo did it with two teams, but both Boston and the Cubs were big spending clubs and he never had to build a farm system. Plus when he did get the Cubs to the top, he let it fall apart and didn't maintain it as he promised the Cub fans from the very beginning when he initially announced the rebuild. Hence why Theo bailed and left, because he knew the Cubs were on a derailed trainwreck.

[Chicago White Sox]

The more I think about this, the more I feel like the need to increase their payroll a bit to land a LH hitting OF and a #3 type SP.  If they’re unwilling to do that, I’d probably suggest doing a soft rebuild.

[Jack Parkman]

On 9/28/2022 at 5:58 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

The more I think about this, the more I feel like the need to increase their payroll a bit to land a LH hitting OF and a #3 type SP.  If they’re unwilling to do that, I’d probably suggest doing a soft rebuild.

I think a soft rebuild is a good idea honestly. 

They could get a shitton for Cease. 

[southsideirish71]

Hiring someone to specifically focus on defense at the major league level.  We need to catch the fucking ball.

[Tony]

I'm fucking exhausted of the offseason already and the Sox have 6 games left. 

[ChetLemon77]

On 9/23/2022 at 6:43 PM, ChiSox59 said:

Moncada is going to put up over 1 fWAR in around 100 games this season. In his previous 2 full seasons, he was worth 5.5 and 4.0 fWAR. He’s not a perfect player but he’s more than competent, and frankly, he’s one of the few guys on this team that provides the Sox with attributes in areas they’re generally awful at. A portion of this fan base has lost all ability to be objective towards Yoan. 

A .635 POS and 78 OPS+ from one of the main stalwarts in your offense is awful. He & Grandal blew up their offense this year. I realize we're stuck with Yo Yo for the time being, which sucks. I see no reason to expect a significant turnaround from him in '23. Would be shocked, actually.

[ChetLemon77]

2 minutes ago, ChetLemon77 said:

A .635 POS and 78 OPS+ from one of the main stalwarts in your offense is awful. He & Grandal blew up their offense this year. I realize we're stuck with Yo Yo for the time being, which sucks. I see no reason to expect a significant turnaround from him in '23. Would be shocked, actually.

.635 OPS...sorry.

[ChiSox59]

7 hours ago, ChetLemon77 said:

A .635 POS and 78 OPS+ from one of the main stalwarts in your offense is awful. He & Grandal blew up their offense this year. I realize we're stuck with Yo Yo for the time being, which sucks. I see no reason to expect a significant turnaround from him in '23. Would be shocked, actually.

He was awful. No argument there. He also has a career OPS, including this season, of .762. It’s unlikely he forgot how to hit at age 27. He’s also an elite defender. Not a perfect player and definitely not what we hoped he would be, but he’s still very useful and has the ability to bounce back to his career norms making himself a well above average player.