Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Chicago White Sox]

12 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think a soft rebuild is a good idea honestly. 

They could get a shitton for Cease. 

If ownership isn’t willing to spend what’s needed to finally complete the roster, then trade Cease & Anderson.  Would suck beyond belief having the move those guys, but we desperately need to pick a clear direction.  Can’t just roll with the same and hope for the best.

[Dick Allen]

8 hours ago, ChetLemon77 said:

.635 OPS...sorry.

POS works for that number as well.

[ChiSox59]

33 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If ownership isn’t willing to spend what’s needed to finally complete the roster, then trade Cease & Anderson.  Would suck beyond belief having the move those guys, but we desperately need to pick a clear direction.  Can’t just roll with the same and hope for the best.

We both know there is 0% chance they go that direction.  

[Tnetennba]

Moncada & Eloy trades feel like getting pennies on the dollar.  Yes they might be movable, but we’d never see the value of what we expected them to be in return.  It’s better IMO to keep them and hope they bounce back / stay healthy enough to live up to their potential.  The utter lack of depth in the upper minors means a worse player likely replaces them, which defeats the point. 
 
As for how they solve the AV, Eloy, Abreu problem, or the DH in the outfield problem I really don’t know.  They have some hard choices to make or need a bump in payroll.  Doing nothing to address either isn’t really an option, but it’s what I fear they will ultimately do. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

We both know there is 0% chance they go that direction.  

Probably not, but definitely concerned they half-ass this and gamble on every under-performing player and a few reclamation projects via free agency returning to form.

[Bossanoveralls]

So man.

If this team went to s%*# over the Tony/Yermin kerfuffle, why don't the Sox bring back The Yerminator?

Maybe the team will rally around him.

They sure went all frosty on Cairo.

Tony and Cairo don't even have a burger sammich named after them.

[bmags]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:24 PM, bmags said:

To be quite honest, I think I make the team diet this offseason. It's not fun. but if I was new GM I'd go at the margins and tell the vets to prove it while bringing up hungrier, less lazy players.

Nov 2022, soxtalk.com turns out to have some sugardaddy poster who secretly bought out all the other investors and gets us a seat at the table with JR. he doesn't want to sell for tax reasons, but he is fine giving more power to more interested, less fat and lazy people.

Soxtalk hivemind elects their favorite admin as President of baseball ops. The one who made that spreadsheet. 

I focus this year on building out a betters scouting and development. I annoint ptatc as head trainer. @Quin leads media and marketing. @flavum gets chief meteorologist.

Bye to everyone in front office except Thome, he's too excellent. Bossard stays. Bossards son gets promoted to AAA because he's nice.

Bye to Abreu. 

C - Grandal, Zavala vs. Carlos Perez
1b - Vaughn v. Sheets
2b - Romy v. Sosa 
3b - Moncada
SS - TA v. Mendick 
LF -  Eloy v. Pollock 
CF - Robert v. Cespedes
RF - Colas v. Cespedes 
DH - Eloy v. Sheets

SP - Cease, Lynn, Kopech, 
Fights - Davis Martin, Reynaldo Lopez
Trade - Lucas Giolito for salary relief to LA Dodgers for James Outman and Jacob Amaya

Bullpen - Graveman, Crochet, Bummer, Kelly, Diekman, Lambert, Ruiz 
Trade - Liam Hendriks to New York yankees for Gleybar Torres, Will Warren

Pre-cuts estimated budget (153 million)

Cleared ~$16 million in budget with Giolito, Hendriks

FA targets: Chris Bassett, Jose Quintana (~$30MM)

So it ends up:
C - Grandal, Zavala vs. Carlos Perez
1b - Vaughn v. Sheets
2b - Romy v. Sosa v. Torres
3b - Moncada v. Torres
SS - TA v. Mendick v. Amaya
LF -  Eloy v. Pollock v. Outman
CF - Robert v. Cespedes
RF - Colas v. Cespedes v. Outman
DH - Eloy v. Sheets

SP - Cease, Lynn, Kopech, Bassitt, Quintana
Fights - Davis Martin, Reynaldo Lopez, Stiever, Burke
BP - Graveman, Crochet, Bummer, Kelly, Lopez, Diekman, Lambert

Also Rule 5 will be good huge fun.
 

 

I have maybe become more Emo...but I still mostly like what I did here but also would like to do a bigger shakeup and trade away Tim Anderson and sign Dansby Swanson.

Dansby is a bad free agent to target because his 6 war value is driven by an Adam Eaton like defensive year, and he's no offensive star. So you pay a ton for a 3 WAR player...and yet

so much of this team has this "My faults are okay and I can play however I want" attitude. Tim Anderson is a better player than Swanson and cheaper, but his defensive warts have never improved and his lack of power just seems like it won't age well into his 30s. If we ran out an infield of Moncada, Swanson, Torres, Vaughn it feels like a much more cohesive one. Torres was okay at 2b, and fully on board with if Romy/Sosa can play defense you play them.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Apparently expect lots of trades because Hahn has gone hog wild on relievers & role players the past couple years.  At least we know to set expectations low this off-season.

[Balta1701]

27 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Apparently expect lots of trades because Hahn has gone hog wild on relievers & role players the past couple years.  At least we know to set expectations low this off-season.

Like it or not, 80% of this roster is already set. Next season is determined by whether they can make Moncada, Lynn, Giolito, Grandal, Robert, Etc. into good enough players to make up ground on Cleveland.

If not, then you have a much different team and different set of decisions in 2024.

That fact doesn’t change with a different GM.

[Chicago White Sox]

Based on the press conference, here is what I think happens this off-season:

• Pito not retained via free agency
• Vaughn traded for a controllable SP
• Sox go with a Sheets/Burger platoon at 1B
• Eloy shifts to DH full-time 
• Sox sign a LH hitting reclamation project OF 
• Colas called up by May 1st to be everyday RF
• Romy, Sosa, & Mendick compete for 2B job

Sox’s 26 man roster come May 1st:

• Lineup: 1B) Sheets* | 2B) Gonzalez | SS) Anderson | 3B) Moncada# | LF) LH FA* | CF) Robert | RF) Colas* | DH) Jimenez | CA) Grandal#
• Bench: IF) Mendick | IF) Burger | OF) Pollock | UT) Garcia# | BC) Zavala
• Rotation: 1) Cease | 2) Lynn | 3) Trade | 4) Kopech | 5) Giolito
• Bullpen: CL) Hendriks | SU) Bummer* | SU) Graveman | SU) Lopez | MR) Kelly | MR) Diekman* | MR) Lambert | LR) Martin

Pitching should be solid, but offense becomes an even bigger question mark than it already is.  Hahn spends all off-season talking about the improved lineup and OF defense, but ignores the fact we lost two of our best hitters.

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Like it or not, 80% of this roster is already set. Next season is determined by whether they can make Moncada, Lynn, Giolito, Grandal, Robert, Etc. into good enough players to make up ground on Cleveland.

If not, then you have a much different team and different set of decisions in 2024.

That fact doesn’t change with a different GM.

You still have to fill the obvious holes we have.  Guys rebounding may not be enough to get us past CLE and certainly won’t be enough to make us serious title contenders.  A competent GM might be able to find a way, Hahn will burn what little liquidity he has on underperforming role players.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Based on the press conference, here is what I think happens this off-season:

• Pito not retained via free agency
• Vaughn traded for a controllable SP
• Sox go with a Sheets/Burger platoon at 1B
• Eloy shifts to DH full-time 
• Sox sign a LH hitting reclamation project OF 
• Colas called up by May 1st to be everyday RF
• Romy, Sosa, & Mendick compete for 2B job

Sox’s 26 man roster come May 1st:

• Lineup: 1B) Sheets* | 2B) Gonzalez | SS) Anderson | 3B) Moncada# | LF) LH FA* | CF) Robert | RF) Colas* | DH) Jimenez | CA) Grandal#
• Bench: IF) Mendick | IF) Burger | OF) Pollock | UT) Garcia# | BC) Zavala
• Rotation: 1) Cease | 2) Lynn | 3) Trade | 4) Kopech | 5) Giolito
• Bullpen: CL) Hendriks | SU) Bummer* | SU) Graveman | SU) Lopez | MR) Kelly | MR) Diekman* | MR) Lambert | LR) Martin

Pitching should be solid, but offense becomes an even bigger question mark than it already is.  Hahn spends all off-season talking about the improved lineup and OF defense, but ignores the fact we lost two of our best hitters.

Yikes. I miss optimistic CWS. 

Letting Abreu walk AND trading AV this offseason while relying on two unproven bats with options at 1B would be just an awful, awful, awful decision making. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Yikes. I miss optimistic CWS. 

Letting Abreu walk AND trading AV this offseason while relying on two unproven bats with options at 1B would be just an awful, awful, awful decision making. 

I miss the optimistic CWS as well, but pretty sure the past 12 months killed that person.  And in all honestly, I can’t recall the last time we entered an off-season where it was this clear there will be little financial room to play with.  Usually there is a reason to dream that we’ll spend some, but defaulting to the trade market just months after being unable to acquire a single useful addition is a terrifying proposition.

I’m hopeful that guys like Yoan & Grandal will be better, but I don’t think that alone is enough to overcome CLE and losing Abreu is going to hurt a ton as well.  If Jerry isn’t willing to push up the payroll a bit, I think we will be hard pressed to make the playoffs next year.  Not trying to be a negative Nancy, but Hahn has really put this roster in a tough spot.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I miss the optimistic CWS as well, but pretty sure the past 12 months killed that person.  And in all honestly, I can’t recall the last time we entered an off-season where it was this clear there will be little financial room to play with.  Usually there is a reason to dream that we’ll spend some, but defaulting to the trade market just months after being unable to acquire a single useful addition is a terrifying proposition.

I’m hopeful that guys like Yoan & Grandal will be better, but I don’t think that alone is enough to overcome CLE and losing Abreu is going to hurt a ton as well.  If Jerry isn’t willing to push up the payroll a bit, I think we will be hard pressed to make the playoffs next year.  Not trying to be a negative Nancy, but Hahn has really put this roster in a tough spot.

They have $30M to spend to stay about where they are this year. Will they spend it? Who knows. But I am far from surprised to hear Hahn not openly say they’re going to go hard after FAs after he’s constantly mocked about his FA failings. Way as well under promise and over deliver in that regard. I’d be shocked if they didn’t have a payroll of at least $190M. 

[Jack Parkman]

I think that the Sox acquire Jarred Kelenic this offseason. @Harold's Leg Lift creams himself. 

[Chicago White Sox]

28 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

They have $30M to spend to stay about where they are this year. Will they spend it? Who knows. But I am far from surprised to hear Hahn not openly say they’re going to go hard after FAs after he’s constantly mocked about his FA failings. Way as well under promise and over deliver in that regard. I’d be shocked if they didn’t have a payroll of at least $190M. 

I’ll feel better if we have $30M to work with, but we’re also losing one of our top three players in this scenario.  That being said, if they could somehow find a way to land Kodai Senga and say Conforto on a pillow contract I’d be fairly content with that off-season.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

They have $30M to spend to stay about where they are this year. Will they spend it? Who knows. But I am far from surprised to hear Hahn not openly say they’re going to go hard after FAs after he’s constantly mocked about his FA failings. Way as well under promise and over deliver in that regard. I’d be shocked if they didn’t have a payroll of at least $190M. 

Just to stress again, you got to $30 million by projecting that Cease will get paid half as much in arb year 1 as Giolito did.

[Tnetennba]

[ChiSox59]

24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Just to stress again, you got to $30 million by projecting that Cease will get paid half as much in arb year 1 as Giolito did.

Nah I got to $165M that way. Add a couple million if you’d like. It’s trivial. They have $25-30M to spend to stay around $195-200M. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Nah I got to $165M that way. Add a couple million if you’d like. It’s trivial. They have $25-30M to spend to stay around $195-200M. 

$25 million. You had Kopech make half as much as Lopez made in arb 1 also, so you were low in multiple spots on arbitration numbers. Could be $26 million to match this year, but $30 million is definitely a payroll boost over this year.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

$25 million. You had Kopech make half as much as Lopez made in arb 1 also, so you were low in multiple spots on arbitration numbers. Could be $26 million to match this year, but $30 million is definitely a payroll boost over this year.

Lol you love to squabble over meaningless dollars. My off the cuff projections youre referring to came to $165M. Add $5M if you will. That’s $170M. Current payroll is ~$196M this season, which means they have $25-30M to spend to get to $195-200M, which is exactly what I said. Look forward to how you’ll find a way to disagree with that to that last word in! 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lol you love to squabble over meaningless dollars. My off the cuff projections youre referring to came to $165M. Add $5M if you will. That’s $170M. Current payroll is ~$196M this season, which means they have $25-30M to spend to get to $195-200M, which is exactly what I said. Look forward to how you’ll find a way to disagree with that to that last word in! 

You may not want to admit this, but there's a big difference between having $25 million and $30 million to spend for this org. If Nimmo is $20 million for you, just following your outline - that's the difference between a $5 million and a $10 million pitcher to go with him. Andrew Heaney in your first post is probably well out of your price range. Cueto probably is, even. So yeah, at least to me, that makes a big difference.

[GreenSox]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Like it or not, 80% of this roster is already set. Next season is determined by whether they can make Moncada, Lynn, Giolito, Grandal, Robert, Etc. into good enough players to make up ground on Cleveland.

If not, then you have a much different team and different set of decisions in 2024.

That fact doesn’t change with a different GM.

I agree with that set-up. 
But how the team deals with that will change with a different GM.  Hahn yapping about trades has the makings of another "last stand" from Hahn, where he repeats his  2015-2016 disaster.  He still has the same habits as he had back then.
I certainly wouldn't trade for a starter; the cost is enormous and with Hahn's (and his hapless pro scouting department) eye for talent, the benefits minimal.  
I would get Colas up; let Gonzales, Sosa and the 2 or 3 other MI prospects handle 2B.  Man the other OF spot with someone who can at least play D. Try to get a catcher if Grandal can't catch.  And take the year to see what you really have in Vaughn when he's settled in at his real position.  If things go well, and the core gets back to form, they may be okay.

Edited October 4, 2022 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I agree with that set-up. 
But how the team deals with that will change with a different GM.  Hahn yapping about trades has the makings of another "last stand" from Hahn, where he repeats his  2015-2016 disaster.  He still has the same habits as he had back then.
I certainly wouldn't trade for a starter; the cost is enormous and with Hahn's (and his hapless pro scouting department) eye for talent, the benefits minimal.  
I would get Colas up; let Gonzales, Sosa and the 2 or 3 other MI prospects handle 2B.  Man the other OF spot with someone who can at least play D. Try to get a catcher if Grandal can't catch.  And take the year to see what you really have in Vaughn when he's settled in at his real position.  If things go well, and the core gets back to form, they may be okay.

 

Right now, the White Sox's rotation is Cease, Lynn, Kopech, Giolito, and Martin. The 6th starter is unknown. 3 of those guys hit the IL this year, the 5th starter is a rookie, one of them will be 36 next year, 3 of them had increases in innings in 2022. Hahn may well screw it up if they try to trade for one, but they absolutely need a starter. Frankly, they need at least 2 somewhere to be able to get through the season, the odds that they won't have 2 guys on the IL at once are almost nil (that's the case for every franchise). Trading for one might be the wrong move, they might get super lucky and have one pop out of their system like Martin did this year, but they desperately need starting pitching.

[hi8is]

Abreu looking on before Hahn won’t really comment on his status with the club next year.