Lip Man 1 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: accountability is just something the media and fans talk about because it's harder to explain how a guy like moncada goes from a 5 WAR true talent to 2 WAR true talent in one season. I'm not saying that the leadership was poor and guys weren't held accountable (whatever that means) but I'm also saying it's a black box that really isn't helpful for team building this offseason. If they had signed a a 3 WAR 2B and a 3 WAR RF they probably make the playoffs, and all this talk of accountability is muted. Get better players, make better decisions in FA. Your last statement absolutely rings true but I also think you are downplaying the role of team chemistry/accountability. Cleveland didn't have the best talent but those guys hustled, seems to enjoy playing the game and with francona you knew there wasn't going to be a lot of BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 27 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: You may be closer to the truth than you realize. These are some of the comments I've already been told about this past season for example. Also remember moving guys can not only mean trading but in the Grandal situation DFA'ing much like Keuchel. In order to get honest, unbiased opinions from the folks I'm reaching out to I promised them their names or positions would not be used. What I can say is that all have been associated with the Sox professionally in one way or another sometimes for decades. The reader can judge for themselves the comments. “The problem with this team is there was no real leadership, nobody to hold guys accountable. No red-asses like the Sox had in the past Carlton Fisk, Jack McDowell, A.J. Pierzynski. Paul Konerko was a quiet guy but when we weren’t doing well he’d get really pissed. Andrus tried to supply some leadership when he came and Giolito tried.” “I’d come into the locker room after a game and you couldn’t tell if they won or lost, just nothing.” “You’d go in the locker room and all the Latino guys would be in one place, the whites in another and the African-Americans someplace else.” “The problem is some of these guys just don’t care, they want to win sure but they already have gotten their money with these contracts before they proved anything. Moncada would strike out and just walk back to the dugout like no big deal, he fouls a ball off and now he can’t play for three days. His contract makes him untradable but he needs to go.” “There was a lack of urgency the entire season. People would say the right things but they never translated.” “To me it was the May 9 game with Cleveland, (Sox blew an 8-2, 9th inning lead and lost in extra innings). That showed Cleveland that they could play with the Sox but what I noticed was the only person that game seemed to bother was Tony LaRussa. Another one was the Triple Play Game against the Twins. Adam Engel faced the music afterwards, he made a mistake and owned up to it. Moncada who also made a mistake was nowhere, he was already gone. Then the next day he was saying that he didn’t know people wanted to talk with him.” You know what bugs me about these? They're equally deaf to what they're saying about the team. Moncada strikes out and walks back to the dugout like it's no big deal? That's...exactly what I want him to do? I don't want him dwelling on one strikeout, I don't want him taking stuff out to the field with him. I want him acting like a professional baseball player. He fouls a ball off and now he can't play for 3 days, I don't want him playing hurt, he's not effective when he's playing hurt, so why is he getting hurt so often? I want Yoan Moncada to come in physically and mentally prepared to do damage, do the best he can, and not be in a foul mood because of a single strikeout. The only person that game seemed to bother was Tony LaRussa, and no one is enforcing "Moncada needs to talk to the press", so who exactly was in charge of the locker room? It clearly wasn't the manager then, so what the hell? Isn't that supposed to be someone's actual job, Moncada isn't supposed to knwo when the press wants to talk to him. Adam Engel owned up to it, ok, so what did we learn from that? Doesn't seem like we learned anything to me, we had plenty of other sloppy games afterwards. So much of that sounds like guys from the 1980s complaining about the kids these days. We need some hard asses! We need people to own up to mistakes! Really, that's what we need, not a level of focus, preparation, and professionalism, we need guys who are angry? We need more TWTW? Sure seems like we had plenty of emotional swings this year, but a far more consistent problem was lack of preparation physically before and during the season and lack of mental preparation before each game. Bringing in more old white guys to yell more...might not be the answer they think it is? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Your last statement absolutely rings true but I also think you are downplaying the role of team chemistry/accountability. Cleveland didn't have the best talent but those guys hustled, seems to enjoy playing the game and with francona you knew there wasn't going to be a lot of BS. Yep. There’s a quality/characteristic in players that is hard to describe or quantify. Not just the cliche “TWTW”, but a certain attitude that comes with the way you play. Some guys want to win more than others, demand accountability, and do the little things (baseball smarts) to make it all happen. And I hate to say it, but Elvis Andrus was the closest I saw to that type of guy all year on the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 DVS of the Sun-Times with the latest on the managerial search. Writes some coaches have been told they can talk with other teams: https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/2022/10/12/23401310/white-sox-managerial-search-perking-up-joe-espada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 3 hours ago, fathom said: It’s funny I’ve heard the same 3 mentioned and I doubt we have similar connections. You’ve heard these guys are clubhouse problems or that the Sox would like to move them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: I suggest part of the reason they underperformed is because there was no one holding them accountable either teammates or the manager. The long term deals may also be making an impact although that depends on the individual player's make up. Why wasn’t this an issue in 2021 though? Was Rodon the red-ass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why wasn’t this an issue in 2021 though? Was Rodon the red-ass? The longer they were with this coach the worse things got? Alternatively, maybe it was the Yermin effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why wasn’t this an issue in 2021 though? Was Rodon the red-ass? Someone finally asked the right question. This team was fine in 2020 and the 1st half of 21. What happened in 22? Do people really expect me to believe that someone just quit yelling at them this year and that's the problem? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 4 hours ago, fathom said: It’s funny I’ve heard the same 3 mentioned and I doubt we have similar connections. I kinda want them to bring in a good 3B and make moncada compete for 2B. I don’t know if hard coaching will be good for him but I’d rather we find out. This was part of the Gleybar thing. Bring him in and tell him he’s the 3b lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 50 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why wasn’t this an issue in 2021 though? Was Rodon the red-ass? Wasn’t their big run in 2021 around the time of a few injuries and the team being carried by hot pitching, abreu, billy Hamilton s%*# and Goodwin/lamb/burger/sheets good months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I. Jerry sells the team to Elon Musk who immediately relocates them to Mars to play as the “Mars ElonSox”. II. The entire roster is released and given away. III. All of our farm teams are sold. Every minor league player is released. IV. Musk successful lobbies Manfried to allow Tesla Bots to play in MLB. During the initial “Interstellar Series” the Cubs organization transportation rockets blow up in a tragedy that shakes the sports world. After which, the former Charlotte Knights become the Chicago Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, bmags said: Wasn’t their big run in 2021 around the time of a few injuries and the team being carried by hot pitching, abreu, billy Hamilton s%*# and Goodwin/lamb/burger/sheets good months? They were slightly above .500 each month in 2021 except May where they were 19-10. They finished things off with the division just around the all star break. After Houston swept then out of the league, they followed that up with a 14-5 stretch right around the break at the same time as Cleveland had their toughest stretch of the season and IIRC that was when they lost Bieber as well. That stretch is the point everyone points back to when they say they’ve been .500 for a year and a half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 5 hours ago, fathom said: It’s funny I’ve heard the same 3 mentioned and I doubt we have similar connections. Prioritizing trading these 3 players when the Sox have 0 internal options to adequately replace any of them feels on brand for the org 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, bmags said: Wasn’t their big run in 2021 around the time of a few injuries and the team being carried by hot pitching, abreu, billy Hamilton s%*# and Goodwin/lamb/burger/sheets good months? The guys you named obviously helped out during tough spots, but are we saying Hamilton & Goodwin were policing the clubhouse and are the reasons why Moncada & Grandal imploded and Tim struggled after a hot two months? Don’t get me wrong, the lack of effort sucked at times this year, but there was clearly other stuff going on with Yoan, Yaz, & Tim (injuries, off-field, etc.). I just don’t think their struggles this year were primarily due to a lack of red-asses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 36 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said: Prioritizing trading these 3 players when the Sox have 0 internal options to adequately replace any of them feels on brand for the org Yep but they’re the main three that seem to have worn out their welcome on and off the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, fathom said: Yep but they’re the main three that seem to have worn out their welcome on and off the field. I don't see it that way and am skeptical of all the internal whispers. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, fathom said: Yep but they’re the main three that seem to have worn out their welcome on and off the field. What has Grandal done off the field? Is he actually a bad clubhouse guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Robert is not a part of this conversation, as the most important position player remaining? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 48 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: The guys you named obviously helped out during tough spots, but are we saying Hamilton & Goodwin were policing the clubhouse and are the reasons why Moncada & Grandal imploded and Tim struggled after a hot two months? Don’t get me wrong, the lack of effort sucked at times this year, but there was clearly other stuff going on with Yoan, Yaz, & Tim (injuries, off-field, etc.). I just don’t think their struggles this year were primarily due to a lack of red-asses. And with all of the guys who sucked this year, the guys who get whispered about always have a distinctive tint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Guess Tim was more of a distraction with his baby momma drama and antics that had been reported. If you trade him you’d better be getting a flipping haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 11 hours ago, maxjusttyped said: I don't see it that way and am skeptical of all the internal whispers. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, obviously. Moncada clearly has worn out his welcome. I would say Grandal as well simply because he sucked in 2022. And Anderson has been a disaster off the field recently, and to me has always felt entitled, poor work ethic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 10 hours ago, hi8is said: Guess Tim was more of a distraction with his baby momma drama and antics that had been reported. If you trade him you’d better be getting a flipping haul. I imagine you'd get a really good return for Anderson, something okay for Moncada, and a salary dump for Grandal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: I imagine you'd get a really good return for Anderson, something okay for Moncada, and a salary dump for Grandal Plus eating Grandal money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 14 hours ago, bmags said: I kinda want them to bring in a good 3B and make moncada compete for 2B. I don’t know if hard coaching will be good for him but I’d rather we find out. This was part of the Gleybar thing. Bring him in and tell him he’s the 3b lol I really love this idea! I was never a fan of him moving from 2B to 3B. He should have been forced to work harder at improving his weaknesses at 2B, instead of moving him to 3B and accepting his failures at 2B. We traded one of the best pitchers in baseball in 2016 for Moncada who was the #1 2B prospect. The only reason he cant play 2B right now is he is too big and slow. He needs to lose some weight and work on increasing his flexibility and quickness which he has never worked on improving. There is no reason Moncada can't play 2B if he loses some weight, and works at it hard in the offseason to master 2B. Btw, your comment about whether or not he will be able to handle hard coaching. The fact is, if he can't handle a hard coaching approach, then even more reason to move on and trade him. I pray we get a manager next year who is going to have tough love, demand hard work and effort and make them work on their fundamentals and defense. This what the Sox were missing the last several years and so desperately need in a manager going forward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 How about this for an off-season plan. Have Jerry Reinsdorf send out a motivational and apology email/open letter to the White Sox fans as Tom Ricketts just did for his Cub fans. As much as I hate the Cubs, what Ricketts did was extremely necessary and really smart on his part. I know our demented and clueless owner won't have the desire or guys to stand up to this horrible season and assure the Sox fans he will do everything in his power to improve the team. Note to JR: We don't want to hear this letter from the Rick Hahn. It needs to come from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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