Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah. Like if they actually made TA available and dealt him for prospects or other MLB ready players in an area of need and then signed Correa, Xander, Dansby, or Turner?

I can’t see any way that it would be smart business for the white Sox to trade away a player making $12 million this year to sign a guy making $25 million at the same position when the GM is already saying he might not have much to spend on the FA market.

[greg775]

On 10/13/2022 at 9:32 AM, Balta1701 said:

Moncada would be a salary dump if moved also. 

Exactly. Why would any team want Moncada? Yes he can field. Only way you keep him is if the Sox try to build a winner with pitching and defense. If you can build a team around Cease, Gio, Kopech, Cueto types and Hendriks and trade all our sluggers who can't field for guys who can field and throw ,then you keep Yoan. Not much reason to hold onto him in any other scenario IMO.

Sox need to find a way to revolutionize the 2020s game. Get starters who can heaven forbid give you seven innings, yes seven full innings of excellence and then cover two innings of relief instead of 4 or 5. Build that pitching staff and defense, Hahn.

Edited October 14, 2022 by greg775

[Bob Sacamano]

33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I can’t see any way that it would be smart business for the white Sox to trade away a player making $12 million this year to sign a guy making $25 million at the same position when the GM is already saying he might not have much to spend on the FA market.

Lol I wasn’t really saying I think it’s likely or realistic. Just thinking out loud for fun.

I forgot the name of this site is called “Budgettalk” for a minute.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Bob Sacamano

[TheFutureIsNear]

I know it seems impossible, but I would stress patience with this lineup/core for 1 more season. It can’t be a coincidence that the entire lineup took a step back all at the exact same time. I really think the coaching staff killed this team and the right staff can get a lot more out of most of the lineup. I’m not saying a guy like Moncada is suddenly going to be an all-star, but he certainly isn’t as bad as he was this year either. He can be a more than useful player and shouldn’t be dumped for nothing yet. Yaz is old, but the elimination of the shift should help him be at least decent. TA and Robert just need to stay healthy. Vaughn should be a able to take a step forward with a new staff and playing his natural position of 1B. Bring up Colas and finally find a solid LH OF’er and the offense should be middle of the pack at worst. And I think we have the pitching to carry a middle of the pack offense to 90ish wins.

Edited October 14, 2022 by TheFutureIsNear

[Balta1701]

24 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I know it seems impossible, but I would stress patience with this lineup/core for 1 more season. It can’t be a coincidence that the entire lineup took a step back all at the exact same time. I really think the coaching staff killed this team and the right staff can get a lot more out of most of the lineup. I’m not saying a guy like Moncada is suddenly going to be an all-star, but he certainly isn’t as bad as he was this year either. He can be a more than useful player and shouldn’t be dumped for nothing yet. Yaz is old, but the elimination of the shift should help him be at least decent. TA and Robert just need to stay healthy. Vaughn should be a able to take a step forward with a new staff and playing his natural position of 1B. Bring up Colas and finally find a solid LH OF’er and the offense should be middle of the pack at worst. And I think we have the pitching to carry a middle of the pack offense to 90ish wins.

I would have expected this to be the most likely result. However, I would also have expected the organization to know that, and at despite that least some people here have said "the organization is actually serious about dumping some of these guys because of things that happened behind the scenes". It's difficult to see how they would realistically pull it off, but it's entirely plausible at this point that they've considered it.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Exactly. Why would any team want Moncada? Yes he can field. Only way you keep him is if the Sox try to build a winner with pitching and defense. If you can build a team around Cease, Gio, Kopech, Cueto types and Hendriks and trade all our sluggers who can't field for guys who can field and throw ,then you keep Yoan. Not much reason to hold onto him in any other scenario IMO.

Sox need to find a way to revolutionize the 2020s game. Get starters who can heaven forbid give you seven innings, yes seven full innings of excellence and then cover two innings of relief instead of 4 or 5. Build that pitching staff and defense, Hahn.

Smart teams out there will see a lot of underachievers as well as the potential that a guy like Yoan Moncada has.  If they believe in their player development enough there is a superstar in there if you can figure out how to get it out of him.  Obvious Tony  and Frank weren't those guys.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd love this is the Sox turned around actually signed one of the legit FA SS.  But they won't.  

Struggle to see why Dbacks make this deal tho.  

yeah I can't see DBacks accepting that.  IDK how the values are the way they are.  Values HATE Marte and his contract (I dont)

[TheFutureIsNear]

25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I would have expected this to be the most likely result. However, I would also have expected the organization to know that, and at despite that least some people here have said "the organization is actually serious about dumping some of these guys because of things that happened behind the scenes". It's difficult to see how they would realistically pull it off, but it's entirely plausible at this point that they've considered it.

Who else besides TA has had behind the scenes issues? I guess you could question Yoan’s commitment with the music career/whatever he does? 
 

But do teammates really care about TA’s sex life/marriage? I would guess not, but obviously none of us know what truly happened with the chemistry and locker room of this team. If I was to bet I’d put my $ on having an out of touch dinosaur as a manager as the issue. I keep pointing to a team like the Phillies getting much better once getting rid of a manager that wasn’t helping the team. But I could be wrong and maybe it is the players…

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Who else besides TA has had behind the scenes issues? I guess you could question Yoan’s commitment with the music career/whatever he does? 
 

But do teammates really care about TA’s sex life/marriage? I would guess not, but obviously none of us know what truly happened with the chemistry and locker room of this team. If I was to bet I’d put my $ on having an out of touch dinosaur as a manager as the issue. I keep pointing to a team like the Phillies getting much better once getting rid of a manager that wasn’t helping the team. But I could be wrong and maybe it is the players…

I don't think it seems like a coincidence that we've heard "They want to get rid of Moncada, Anderson, and Grandal" from more than 1 person and now we got a "they're trying to figure out how to trade Giolito" tweet yesterday. It doesn't seem practicable to do this, and some of these are probably just following the trend, but no one would have thought of this trend had there not been a little discussion of it. We have all been sitting here ridiculing the notions that either Grandal or Moncada were movable, and all of a sudden people are coming up with package deals? That came from somewhere.

[southsider2k5]

31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't think it seems like a coincidence that we've heard "They want to get rid of Moncada, Anderson, and Grandal" from more than 1 person and now we got a "they're trying to figure out how to trade Giolito" tweet yesterday. It doesn't seem practicable to do this, and some of these are probably just following the trend, but no one would have thought of this trend had there not been a little discussion of it. We have all been sitting here ridiculing the notions that either Grandal or Moncada were movable, and all of a sudden people are coming up with package deals? That came from somewhere.

Let's stop and think about this for a minute with some common sense.  If the Sox were looking to move the three you mentioned, plus Giolito to save money, and Vaughn to make the trade have a better return AND they were looking to not have Abreu come back that isn't some simple roster readjustments.  That is a full fucking rebuild.  And while that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, there is absolutely no one saying that.

So while I don't doubt moves are on the horizon, funny none of those all knowing internet personalities are adding 3 + 3 to get what it would actually mean.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Let's stop and think about this for a minute with some common sense.  If the Sox were looking to move the three you mentioned, plus Giolito to save money, and Vaughn to make the trade have a better return AND they were looking to not have Abreu come back that isn't some simple roster readjustments.  That is a full fucking rebuild.  And while that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, there is absolutely no one saying that.

So while I don't doubt moves are on the horizon, funny none of those all knowing internet personalities are adding 3 + 3 to get what it would actually mean.

I don't think there would have been such open discussion of a hard restart with half the roster had someone behind the scenes not at least talked about it. The fact that they're not adding it together as "this is another rebuild we screwed up" - kinda makes me actually think someone did talk about this at least as an idea. That's the kind of stuff someone would say internally to avoid admitting a mistake, right? "We're not rebuilding, we're clearing out contracts to give ourselves more flexibility on the market, but we still expect to be right there at the end." Could you picture that coming out of a certain person in an interview? 

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't think there would have been such open discussion of a hard restart with half the roster had someone behind the scenes not at least talked about it. The fact that they're not adding it together as "this is another rebuild we screwed up" - kinda makes me actually think someone did talk about this at least as an idea. That's the kind of stuff someone would say internally to avoid admitting a mistake, right? "We're not rebuilding, we're clearing out contracts to give ourselves more flexibility on the market, but we still expect to be right there at the end." Could you picture that coming out of a certain person in an interview? 

I don't expect the Sox to say it, but you have to be a complete dolt to report something like that AND not get what it actually means.  If they aren't seeing it, I refuse to give actual credence to them having any real common sense.

If they don't have that, how should I give them any real value?

[Balta1701]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I don't expect the Sox to say it, but you have to be a complete dolt to report something like that AND not get what it actually means.  If they aren't seeing it, I refuse to give actual credence to them having any real common sense.

My version would be Ricky telling his guys "don't call this a rebuild whatever you do we don't want that to be out there". Deliberately avoiding words like that rather than being naïve. 

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

My version would be Ricky telling his guys "don't call this a rebuild whatever you do we don't want that to be out there". Deliberately avoiding words like that rather than being naïve. 

So Rick is out there telling the entire world six players he is looking move off of the roster ahead of time, thus allowing other teams to be ready for him, but smart enough to tell them it's not a rebuild, because that is the important part? 

This is some Fox Mulder type I want to believe stuff right there.

[TheFutureIsNear]

25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't think there would have been such open discussion of a hard restart with half the roster had someone behind the scenes not at least talked about it. The fact that they're not adding it together as "this is another rebuild we screwed up" - kinda makes me actually think someone did talk about this at least as an idea. That's the kind of stuff someone would say internally to avoid admitting a mistake, right? "We're not rebuilding, we're clearing out contracts to give ourselves more flexibility on the market, but we still expect to be right there at the end." Could you picture that coming out of a certain person in an interview? 

Open discussion amongst who tho? Unless I’m missing something aren’t these just fan fueled rumors? I know the White Sox are a mess and a bit of a joke in the front office, but I seriously doubt Hahn would be allowed to start his 2nd rebuild and they’d be looking at old managers of any kind if a tear down was in the works. I’ll believe it when I see it.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Open discussion amongst who tho? Unless I’m missing something aren’t these just fan fueled rumors? I know the White Sox are a mess and a bit of a joke in the front office, but I seriously doubt Hahn would be allowed to start his 2nd rebuild and they’d be looking at old managers of any kind if a tear down was in the works. I’ll believe it when I see it.

Several of these "fan fueled rumors" have people who claim insider knowledge pushing them. They're bizarre enough that I still struggle to see how fans would actually come up with them, and I don't know why the so-called insiders would follow along. 

[southsider2k5]

And if we really want to play Rick Hahn's the X-Files White Sox edition, it makes WAAAAY more sense to let a bunch of idiot and gullible attention starved dupes go out and run in circles with complete garbage posts about the roster to allow you to fly under the radar and get done the things you actually want to get done, such as hiring a manager and figuring how you can add the pieces to the roster that they will be able to add, versus filling these dopes in on the off-season roster moves while pretending they aren't rebuilding.

[The Kids Can Play]

18 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I don’t think “getting into better shape” is Yoan’s issue. 

It totally is his issue and problem.

First, he is heavier than he was when he played in the Boston farm system. He is also heavier than when he first played for the Sox. He is still very slow and you can't tell me he can't lose 10 or 15 lbs and be quicker and still keep his strength. Losing weight is part of getting in better shape.

Secondly, another part of being in great shape is to have great flexibility with your muscles. His lack of flexibility is due to being heavier and thicker and not knowing how to properly stretch or stretch and stay limber and flexible continuously throughout the game...especially for a thicker athlete. If Yoan maybe learned to do Yoga like Dylan Cease or learned how to properly stretch from perhaps a world class gymnast or sprinter, he would be able to avoid all the non-stop hamstring and groin injuries he repeatedly has.

You never saw Jose Abreu pull hamstrings and groins like Moncada did. Jose is a big man too...actually bigger and thicker than Yoan. The difference is Jose did a more thorough job of stretching before and during the game. I've been to tons of Sox games and you can see how Jose is constantly stretching and staying loose in the on deck circle and right before he goes to the batter's box. Yoan never did this type of higher level and more thorough form of stretching and staying loose and limber before and during the games. 

The fact is, anytime an athlete pulls muscles repeatedly like Yoan does, it's absolutely related to the athlete not being in the best possible shape and/or not understanding the proper forms of stretching, strength training and fitness.

Finally, I am not saying that his lack of hitting is part of his lack of being in better shape. I am saying his lack of being in better shape is what prevents him from playing 2B. Although if he did lose weight, he would be able to perhaps beat out more groundouts or run the bases from first to home better.

As I've posted many times in here, these players like Yoan make ridiculous millions of dollars and can afford to hire the best trainers and dieticians. We should not be making any excuses for these athletes not being in the best top shape possible before and during the season. Again this is baseball and not football! The amount of muscle injures Yoan gets every year is simple pathetic.

[Chisoxfn]

4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd love this is the Sox turned around actually signed one of the legit FA SS.  But they won't.  

Struggle to see why Dbacks make this deal tho.  

Yeah - do that and than spend money on Correa or someone else. That would be a huge move all around (and this is coming from a TA7 fan).  

[kitekrazy]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:42 AM, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

It would never happen but imagine if they traded TA for a haul and then signed one of the free agent SS to replace him. Must be nice to root for a team that actually would make moves like that.

You must be thinking of some other organization not named the Sox.   I would not trust the current GM in any trade situation.

[hankchifan]

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

It totally is his issue and problem.

First, he is heavier than he was when he played in the Boston farm system. He is also heavier than when he first played for the Sox. He is still very slow and you can't tell me he can't lose 10 or 15 lbs and be quicker and still keep his strength. Losing weight is part of getting in better shape.

Secondly, another part of being in great shape is to have great flexibility with your muscles. His lack of flexibility is due to being heavier and thicker and not knowing how to properly stretch or stretch and stay limber and flexible continuously throughout the game...especially for a thicker athlete. If Yoan maybe learned to do Yoga like Dylan Cease or learned how to properly stretch from perhaps a world class gymnast or sprinter, he would be able to avoid all the non-stop hamstring and groin injuries he repeatedly has.

You never saw Jose Abreu pull hamstrings and groins like Moncada did. Jose is a big man too...actually bigger and thicker than Yoan. The difference is Jose did a more thorough job of stretching before and during the game. I've been to tons of Sox games and you can see how Jose is constantly stretching and staying loose in the on deck circle and right before he goes to the batter's box. Yoan never did this type of higher level and more thorough form of stretching and staying loose and limber before and during the games. 

The fact is, anytime an athlete pulls muscles repeatedly like Yoan does, it's absolutely related to the athlete not being in the best possible shape and/or not understanding the proper forms of stretching, strength training and fitness.

Finally, I am not saying that his lack of hitting is part of his lack of being in better shape. I am saying his lack of being in better shape is what prevents him from playing 2B. Although if he did lose weight, he would be able to perhaps beat out more groundouts or run the bases from first to home better.

As I've posted many times in here, these players like Yoan make ridiculous millions of dollars and can afford to hire the best trainers and dieticians. We should not be making any excuses for these athletes not being in the best top shape possible before and during the season. Again this is baseball and not football! The amount of muscle injures Yoan gets every year is simple pathetic.

What does our training group say about Yoan and what have they done about it?  Is Yoan being made accountable?

[southsider2k5]

6 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

It totally is his issue and problem.

First, he is heavier than he was when he played in the Boston farm system. He is also heavier than when he first played for the Sox. He is still very slow and you can't tell me he can't lose 10 or 15 lbs and be quicker and still keep his strength. Losing weight is part of getting in better shape.

Secondly, another part of being in great shape is to have great flexibility with your muscles. His lack of flexibility is due to being heavier and thicker and not knowing how to properly stretch or stretch and stay limber and flexible continuously throughout the game...especially for a thicker athlete. If Yoan maybe learned to do Yoga like Dylan Cease or learned how to properly stretch from perhaps a world class gymnast or sprinter, he would be able to avoid all the non-stop hamstring and groin injuries he repeatedly has.

You never saw Jose Abreu pull hamstrings and groins like Moncada did. Jose is a big man too...actually bigger and thicker than Yoan. The difference is Jose did a more thorough job of stretching before and during the game. I've been to tons of Sox games and you can see how Jose is constantly stretching and staying loose in the on deck circle and right before he goes to the batter's box. Yoan never did this type of higher level and more thorough form of stretching and staying loose and limber before and during the games. 

The fact is, anytime an athlete pulls muscles repeatedly like Yoan does, it's absolutely related to the athlete not being in the best possible shape and/or not understanding the proper forms of stretching, strength training and fitness.

Finally, I am not saying that his lack of hitting is part of his lack of being in better shape. I am saying his lack of being in better shape is what prevents him from playing 2B. Although if he did lose weight, he would be able to perhaps beat out more groundouts or run the bases from first to home better.

As I've posted many times in here, these players like Yoan make ridiculous millions of dollars and can afford to hire the best trainers and dieticians. We should not be making any excuses for these athletes not being in the best top shape possible before and during the season. Again this is baseball and not football! The amount of muscle injures Yoan gets every year is simple pathetic.

So why is no one talking about Michael Kopech the same way?

[A-Train to 35th]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:22 PM, southsider2k5 said:

And if we really want to play Rick Hahn's the X-Files White Sox edition, it makes WAAAAY more sense to let a bunch of idiot and gullible attention starved dupes go out and run in circles with complete garbage posts about the roster to allow you to fly under the radar and get done the things you actually want to get done, such as hiring a manager and figuring how you can add the pieces to the roster that they will be able to add, versus filling these dopes in on the off-season roster moves while pretending they aren't rebuilding.

 

[southsider2k5]

37 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

 

Uh oh, the hurt feelings train is here.

 

Waiting for the PM.

[hi8is]

54 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Uh oh, the hurt feelings train is here.

 

Waiting for the PM.

As my Hall of Fame list has filled up I’ve begun to develop empathy for you folks who have to endure the dumbs.