Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[ChiSox59]

17 minutes ago, spiderman said:

Its possible they cut back, but with all of the money already committed, that would need to be a sell off.

Even if Reinsdorf is willing to do $200m, that is almost what they spent this year so Hahn is probably telling us a lot by mentioning the trade market.

Right.  I think Hahn's comments have more to do with the reality of the situation (they only have $30M to spend) and the fact that if he says he's going to be a player in free agency but doesn't land anyone notable, he'll get fried like he has repeatedly on his missed FA pursuits the last few offseasons.  

[Fuagman]

Ridiculously unrealistic (due to Sox attachment to players) though financially plausible offseason plan:

-Trade Tim Anderson for Ketel Marte (and Joe Mantiply if you don’t think that’s fair) 
-Trade Liam Hendricks and Giolito for Cody Bellinger and Austin Barnes 
-Sign Carlos Correa
-Sign Quintana and Cueto

2B Marte
SS Correa
1B Vaughn
DH Eloy
CF Robert
LF Bellinger
3B Moncada
C Grandal/Barnes
RF Colas 

SP
Cease
Lynn
Quintana
Kopech
Cueto 

Closer- Reylo/Crochet 
SU- Graveman/Bummer 

$30 mil for Correa= Saved ~$8 mil from trades, $18 mil from letting Abreu walk, $4 mil from Harrison

[ChiSox59]

31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Does Melky Cabrera count since he was a switch hitter? If so, then 2021 Conforto < 2016-2017 Melky Cabrera with the bats.

Does Daniel Palka count as an OF? I'm genuinely not sure, but 2021 Conforto < 2018 Daniel Palka.

Those are in addition to Eaton. I totally get why the White Sox would do a move like that. It makes sense given their budget and their situation. It's a reasonable gamble. 

But unless I'm reading this wrong, your post has a degree of certainty in it that I don't understand. You say "he would be this" as though it's not a gamble at all. Are you really 100% confident that Conforto can have a bad 2021 due to injuries, miss all of 2022 due to injury, and will then come back as the 2017-2020 .860 OPS hitter? So confident that you can guarantee Conforto will put up a .800 OPS? I would like to know what gives you that confidence to say that he would be, do you know something about his injuries that I don't?

I thought about mentioning 2016 Melky, but didn't because he was a switch hitter.  Conforto has hit RHP much better than Melky did (.873 vs .756 career OPS), which is one of the Sox biggest need.   Though obviously Melky has a much larger sample that includes the twilight of his career.  Even if you want to discount Conforto quite a bit from his career mark of .873 against RHP, history suggest he should be better than a .756 OPS hitter against RHP. 

To be clear, I'd much prefer some other options than Conforto that play better defense.  But he'd be a solid back up option on a 1 year deal.  

I don't really think Palka is relevant to the discussion.  Conforto has career wRC+ of 124.  Palka's best season was 108.  Yes, Conforto was 106 in 2021 and didn't play in 2022.  I am aware. But he's still not even 30. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by ChiSox59

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I thought about mentioning 2016 Melky, but didn't because he was a switch hitter.  Conforto has hit RHP much better than Melky did (.873 vs .756 career OPS), which is one of the Sox biggest need.   Though obviously Melky has a much larger sample that includes the twilight of his career.  Even if you want to discount Conforto quite a bit from his career mark of .873 against RHP, history suggest he should be better than a .756 OPS hitter against RHP. 

To be clear, I'd much prefer some other options than Conforto that play better defense.  But he'd be a solid back up option on a 1 year deal.  

don't really think Palka is relevant to the discussion. has career wRC+ of 124.  Palka's best season was 108.  Yes, Conforto was 106 in 2021 and didn't play in 2022.  I am aware. But he's still not even 30. 

You sorta passed over the issue I asked about though. I'm well aware Conforto based on his career numbers has outplayed those guys, but there's those two injury-riddled and then missed seasons in 2021 and 2022 we have to worry about. In 2021 his OPS against righties was only .792, and it was a measly .582 against lefties. If he plays to his career averages that's great, but what gives you confidence that his career numbers are the only ones to look at and 2021 can be fully discounted?

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Fuagman said:

Ridiculously unrealistic (due to Sox attachment to players) though financially plausible offseason plan:

-Trade Tim Anderson for Ketel Marte (and Joe Mantiply if you don’t think that’s fair) 
-Trade Liam Hendricks and Giolito for Cody Bellinger and Austin Barnes 
-Sign Carlos Correa
-Sign Quintana and Cueto

2B Marte
SS Correa
1B Vaughn
DH Eloy
CF Robert
LF Bellinger
3B Moncada
C Grandal/Barnes
RF Colas 

SP
Cease
Lynn
Quintana
Kopech
Cueto 

Closer- Reylo/Crochet 
SU- Graveman/Bummer 

$30 mil for Correa= Saved ~$8 mil from trades, $18 mil from letting Abreu walk, $4 mil from Harrison

Why would Correa take a $5 million pay cut unless he's getting a ten year deal for $300 million guaranteed?

[Balta1701]

34 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why would Correa take a $5 million pay cut unless he's getting a ten year deal for $300 million guaranteed?

I would strongly guess that Correa's next contract will have a lower yearly total and more guaranteed years than his Minnesota deal. 

[The Kids Can Play]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:45 PM, JoeC said:

Also, no - people don't criticize non-contact knee injuries... but that doesn't mean that it's not preventable.

I've reviewed tons of strength and conditioning protocols (in-season and off-season... though mostly for sports like hockey and soccer), and there's a huge emphasis specifically on knee injury prevention. A lot of the prevention is emphasized around ligament protection (like ACL tears), but things like meniscus protection aren't far removed from those same protocols.

Again, this is where I want @ptatcto chime in....

I know there are protocols players can perform to lesson the chances of knee injuries and didn't say there weren't. My only point was and still is: it's easier to prevent a hamstring and groin injury than prevent an ACL tear. 

Maybe the Sox FO should find people to come in and teach the proper flexibility protocols, as well as most importantly, find a coaching and training staff that believes in the proper program and work necessary. A coaching and training staff that will hold the players accountable to the proper flexibility work on a daily basis. 

I played four years of baseball and basketball in high school and we had the same head coach for both sports. Most of our stretching was done with a partner and not done individually on our own. Go try lying on your back and having someone else push your leg back to properly stretch your hamstring. You will find it gets done much more efficiently than if one just does it on his own and maybe doesn't perform the stretching to it's best effort. My senior year both our baseball and basketball teams did not have one single hamstring pull. 

Our players also do not understand the importance of stretching during the game, in between innings in the dugout and especially in the on deck circle. Jose Abreu is a perfect example of this. He never pulled a hamstring last year. Maybe it's because Jose not only stretched properly before the game, he was always stretching in the dugout, on deck circle or batters box. 

[The Kids Can Play]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:09 PM, T R U said:

Its incredibly hard on the knees to be that large of a person and do the things you need to do as a professional athlete.

I totally agree with you. Hence why Lance should take pride and hire a dietician and personal trainer in the off-season and lose some major weight while getting in the gym to build his strength and flexibility, since he will be 36 years old in 2023.

[JoeC]

59 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I know there are protocols players can perform to lesson the chances of knee injuries and didn't say there weren't. My only point was and still is: it's easier to prevent a hamstring and groin injury than prevent an ACL tear. 

Maybe the Sox FO should find people to come in and teach the proper flexibility protocols, as well as most importantly, find a coaching and training staff that believes in the proper program and work necessary. A coaching and training staff that will hold the players accountable to the proper flexibility work on a daily basis. 

I played four years of baseball and basketball in high school and we had the same head coach for both sports. Most of our stretching was done with a partner and not done individually on our own. Go try lying on your back and having someone else push your leg back to properly stretch your hamstring. You will find it gets done much more efficiently than if one just does it on his own and maybe doesn't perform the stretching to it's best effort. My senior year both our baseball and basketball teams did not have one single hamstring pull. 

Our players also do not understand the importance of stretching during the game, in between innings in the dugout and especially in the on deck circle. Jose Abreu is a perfect example of this. He never pulled a hamstring last year. Maybe it's because Jose not only stretched properly before the game, he was always stretching in the dugout, on deck circle or batters box. 

I guess my point is that flexibility is just one piece. Strength is also important, and mechanics are also important.

Yes, it's easier to prevent a hamstring / groin injury than an ACL tear. However, my point of contention is that joint injuries (ligaments, meniscus, etc.) ARE preventable with the proper protocols. To dismiss them as just being freak / inevitable things (as you seemed to do with Kopech's meniscus tear in your original post) is, at best, only partially accurate.

FYI, I've been in athletics my entire life (college hockey, coaching hockey competitively at the youth national level, collegiate levels, etc.)... and what you're saying makes sense... to a point. Yes, I'm aware of the benefits of partner stretching... but that sort of flexibility / stretching has proven to be useless when used as preparation for pre-competition (it's best to warm your muscles up through dynamic stretching and gentle full-range loading).

Back to my original point.... non-contact joint injuries are, by and large, preventable, so I don't agree that Kopech's knee injury is an unpreventable aberration, especially once you contextualize it against his own personal injury experiences + his teammates' myriad injuries. I'm of the opinion that Kopech's knee injury is a product of both his injury proneness (probably greatly exacerbated by fitness regimens) as well as the Sox's medical staff's shortcomings.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, JoeC said:

I guess my point is that flexibility is just one piece. Strength is also important, and mechanics are also important.

Yes, it's easier to prevent a hamstring / groin injury than an ACL tear. However, my point of contention is that joint injuries (ligaments, meniscus, etc.) ARE preventable with the proper protocols. To dismiss them as just being freak / inevitable things (as you seemed to do with Kopech's meniscus tear in your original post) is, at best, only partially accurate.

FYI, I've been in athletics my entire life (college hockey, coaching hockey competitively at the youth national level, collegiate levels, etc.)... and what you're saying makes sense... to a point. Yes, I'm aware of the benefits of partner stretching... but that sort of flexibility / stretching has proven to be useless when used as preparation for pre-competition (it's best to warm your muscles up through dynamic stretching and gentle full-range loading).

Back to my original point.... non-contact joint injuries are, by and large, preventable, so I don't agree that Kopech's knee injury is an unpreventable aberration, especially once you contextualize it against his own personal injury experiences + his teammates' myriad injuries. I'm of the opinion that Kopech's knee injury is a product of both his injury proneness (probably greatly exacerbated by fitness regimens) as well as the Sox's medical staff's shortcomings.

I have heard this recently.  Obviously my athletic days are long behind, but when did this change?    Being a fan of a lot of HS sports, I have noticed this change in warm ups for sure.

[JoeC]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have heard this recently.  Obviously my athletic days are long behind, but when did this change?    Being a fan of a lot of HS sports, I have noticed this change in warm ups for sure.

Yeah, I'm not sure when it changed. Back when I was playing competitively (~'06), it was a hybrid.

By the time I started diving headfirst into coaching in like 2010, all of the formal education was centered around dynamic warm-ups.

What I've been taught is that flexibility is good, but static stretching to increase overall flexibility is not correlated with injury prevention if done right before activity / competition. It's another physical attribute to work on, but pregame ain't the time to do it.

 

...but again, I'd defer to @ptatc.

[The Kids Can Play]

6 hours ago, JoeC said:

I guess my point is that flexibility is just one piece. Strength is also important, and mechanics are also important.

Yes, it's easier to prevent a hamstring / groin injury than an ACL tear. However, my point of contention is that joint injuries (ligaments, meniscus, etc.) ARE preventable with the proper protocols. To dismiss them as just being freak / inevitable things (as you seemed to do with Kopech's meniscus tear in your original post) is, at best, only partially accurate.

FYI, I've been in athletics my entire life (college hockey, coaching hockey competitively at the youth national level, collegiate levels, etc.)... and what you're saying makes sense... to a point. Yes, I'm aware of the benefits of partner stretching... but that sort of flexibility / stretching has proven to be useless when used as preparation for pre-competition (it's best to warm your muscles up through dynamic stretching and gentle full-range loading).

Back to my original point.... non-contact joint injuries are, by and large, preventable, so I don't agree that Kopech's knee injury is an unpreventable aberration, especially once you contextualize it against his own personal injury experiences + his teammates' myriad injuries. I'm of the opinion that Kopech's knee injury is a product of both his injury proneness (probably greatly exacerbated by fitness regimens) as well as the Sox's medical staff's shortcomings.

I will agree with you on one thing which you are pointing out; Kopech's injury and all the other injures on this team the last two years, whether knee or hamstrings, etc. are a direct reflection and correlation to the Sox having a pathetic manager, coaching staff and horrific training/medical staff. 

Btw I do agree with you on the concept of proper dynamic stretching and a full range loading process. I realize its a more comprehensive process and not some quick stretching exercise routine. However those practices would require knowledgeable experts and the Sox don't have those employed, nor have they tried to implement them.

[caulfield12]

Better SPs, primarly at the tail end of the rotation. I would venture to say Chris Bassitt if he is available would be best but that would be embarrassing for Hahn again. I highly doubt the Sox will go after deGrom, or Verlander or even Kershaw. Noah Syndergaard would be another name that could be added to the rotation, while nowhere near as good as he used to be with the Mets. It seems like an abundance of teams are interested in Carlos Rodon, so forget that. The only other pitcher that might be good would be Jameson Taillon from the Yanks if he can produce good numbers though his salary might be a bit too high for the Sox again. Former Dodger, Rich Hill might be a name to be added, though he is 43 years old, he does have a ton of experience and his salary isn't in the $35 million range like others but in the $4.2 million range.  That's the main place where Hahn is comfortable in terms of risk these days.  But he'd likely end up another version of Keuchel. 

Japanese and Korean markets, that's outside the comfort zone, too. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Better SPs, primarly at the tail end of the rotation. I would venture to say Chris Bassitt if he is available would be best but that would be embarrassing for Hahn again. I highly doubt the Sox will go after deGrom, or Verlander or even Kershaw. Noah Syndergaard would be another name that could be added to the rotation, while nowhere near as good as he used to be with the Mets. It seems like an abundance of teams are interested in Carlos Rodon, so forget that. The only other pitcher that might be good would be Jameson Taillon from the Yanks if he can produce good numbers though his salary might be a bit too high for the Sox again. Former Dodger, Rich Hill might be a name to be added, though he is 43 years old, he does have a ton of experience and his salary isn't in the $35 million range like others but in the $4.2 million range.  That's the main place where Hahn is comfortable in terms of risk these days.  But he'd likely end up another version of Keuchel. 

Japanese and Korean markets, that's outside the comfort zone, too. 

There are a lot of arms I'd be happy with.. Though my #1 offseason goals are to address the lineup/defense.  I am fine rolling with Cease, Lynn, Giolito and Kopech as 1-4.  Then signing some #5 around the 10 million range.

[Chicago White Sox]

MLBTR’s off-season outlook for the Sox:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/10/offseason-outlook-chicago-white-sox-12.html
 

Pretty good assessment of the team and our needs.  One thing of note is if we tender contracts to Giolito, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, & Mendick we’re looking at ~$167M in payroll commitment for 18 guys.  Throw in six minimum salary guys in Vaughn, Colas, Sosa (or Romy), Zavala, Lambert, & Crochet (or AAA random arm) and you’re probably sitting at ~$172M.  That would leave us somewhere in the $15M to $30M range to add a starting OF and a 5th starter.

Personally if I were Hahn, I’m targeting Kodai Senga for the rotation.  Let’s say he gets a deal slightly higher than what Kikuchi got from the Mariners due to him having no posting fee and call it 4/$64M.  If we’re being optimistic, that would leave ~$14M for an OF and with that money I’d sign Conforto to a pillow contract.  To me, that’s about as best as we could do and that might be pushing things financially.

Also, while I’d prefer Nimmo over Conforto, I really think we need to add a quality 5th starter.  A foursome of Cease, Lynn, Kopech, & Giolito could be elite but the latter three all carry legitimate risk.  Even if Jerry would approve a Nimmo signing, you’re probably looking at a scrap-heap #5 type starter then.

[SoCalChiSox]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

MLBTR’s off-season outlook for the Sox:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/10/offseason-outlook-chicago-white-sox-12.html
 

Pretty good assessment of the team and our needs.  One thing of note is if we tender contracts to Giolito, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, & Mendick we’re looking at ~$167M in payroll commitment for 18 guys.  Throw in six minimum salary guys in Vaughn, Colas, Sosa (or Romy), Zavala, Lambert, & Crochet (or AAA random arm) and you’re probably sitting at ~$172M.  That would leave us somewhere in the $15M to $30M range to add a starting OF and a 5th starter.

Personally if I were Hahn, I’m targeting Kodai Senga for the rotation.  Let’s say he gets a deal slightly higher than what Kikuchi got from the Mariners due to him having no posting fee and call it 4/$64M.  If we’re being optimistic, that would leave ~$14M for an OF and with that money I’d sign Conforto to a pillow contract.  To me, that’s about as best as we could do and that might be pushing things financially.

Also, while I’d prefer Nimmo over Conforto, I really think we need to add a quality 5th starter.  A foursome of Cease, Lynn, Kopech, & Giolito could be elite but the latter three all carry legitimate risk.  Even if Jerry would approve a Nimmo signing, you’re probably looking at a scrap-heap #5 type starter then.

If we have 15-30 to work with...they can add Conforto on a 1 yr prove it deal for LF (Nimmo will be too expensive) like 1/10 and you can definitely add a 5th starter for 8-10.  

Problem is there is still a huge hole at 2B and no way to really address it unless you are gonna move Eloy for Chisholm and then have Grandal DH since he can't catch anymore. 

[he gone.]

9 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

If we have 15-30 to work with...they can add Conforto on a 1 yr prove it deal for LF (Nimmo will be too expensive) like 1/10 and you can definitely add a 5th starter for 8-10.  

Problem is there is still a huge hole at 2B and no way to really address it unless you are gonna move Eloy for Chisholm and then have Grandal DH since he can't catch anymore. 

Just a reminder Conforto turned down a 1/18mm deal ... I know he had a shoulder, but I'd be shocked if he takes less than 15mm on a year deal. I'd venture he'd take something like 3/42mm just as a safety net on years if you gave him options out after each year (like nick martinez), but he's not settling for 10mm on a year basis. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

30 minutes ago, he gone. said:

Just a reminder Conforto turned down a 1/18mm deal ... I know he had a shoulder, but I'd be shocked if he takes less than 15mm on a year deal. I'd venture he'd take something like 3/42mm just as a safety net on years if you gave him options out after each year (like nick martinez), but he's not settling for 10mm on a year basis. 

He will be much lower since he hasnt played in a year and the year before that he was not very good.  He will be a 1 year deal guy with high incentives.

[Dick Allen]

26 minutes ago, Squirmin&#x27; for Yermin said:

He will be much lower since he hasnt played in a year and the year before that he was not very good.  He will be a 1 year deal guy with high incentives.

Yes. He hurt his shoulder after he turned down the QO IIRC.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Yes. He hurt his shoulder after he turned down the QO IIRC.

correct

[he gone.]

My offseason - video game version while keeping it realistic inside Reinsdorf's stupid money constraints because he's a moron and doesn't realize when to play his A/K suited hand. 

Catcher: Grandal Leave as is. You will not get anything of value for him in return and is a sunk cost at this point. Unless you're trying to clear that salary and attach a guy with it to a contending team? It doesn't seem very plausible. But in my perfect world, if you're trading that salary successfully it better be to spend immediately on someone more impactful. Otherwise you hope that he successfully finds a rehab doctor/routine and improves his knees. You hope that having no shift improves his BA and his power comes back to some form. If you can get 100 games behind the plate and 20 at DH with 20HR and 70RBI while working counts and taking walks? It's a victory. Was always a bad signing to spend that much money on a guy who plays 75% of the games. He has to return what a $24mm player does in 3/4ths of the games to be worth it. Catcher while important, is NOT a premium position, its a position of luxury and as a mid market (sadly) team, you CANNOT spend on catcher like we did because if it doesnt work perfectly you're screwed. shame on hahn for not understanding this simple concept. 

1b: This is the video game version after all. Which is the version where i look not just to this year, but into the future. aka how the brewers traded hader. sadly in this version, just like the packers, we must walk away from aaron rodgers/jose abreu. In my real offseason version I'd keep him in a heartbeat. Here without emotion? I move on. AV is the easy choice. we move on.

2b: This one is sure to shake the board up. Trade for Nick Madrigal. seriously. Cubs have Hoerner. They are going to be in the mix for one of the bigger SS ... I just don't see how there's room for him there and his season went terribly. His cost is likely low. Like maybe it's as easy as Burger or Sheets ... both are decent fits. I'm sure this the most likely to get quote selected ... but he's controllable. He is a great 9 hole hitter to turn the lineup over and puts the ball into play. (I know i know we just got off a year of all singles)

SS: There was an urge for me to say trade Tim Anderson. But he has those two option years left so there's no rush to do it now. I'd rather get another year out of Colson and see how he's progressing (or not) and you still have solid trade value on TA going into next offseason. My thought to trade him has ZERO to do with his off field hiccup or his collapse last year. Just that he has some value on that contract and we may have a replacement. If we truly are going to compete year in and year out we should be smart enough to look in the mirror and know we cant be the dodgers or boston, etc. and spend our way into contention most years. we have to be more along the lines of the Rays, Brewers, Oakland, Guardians, etc. etc. So if you have a guy who's ready to take your SS place then you have to consider moving TA when he has trade value remaining regardless where you are in the push for a WS (aka look at the guardians talking about trading Rosario this offseason). 

3B: While I'd love to package Moncada up and send him packing that contract is atrocious. $41mm due over the next two years is all but impossible to trade especially at maybe his all time low trade value. I stand by that he and Yaz are the keys to us winning a WS.  That said, this is the video game version, so let's have fun ... What you may be able to do is flip someone like Moncada for another poor contract ... think something like Moncada and Burger to the Marlins for Brian Anderson and Avi Garcia. $41mm and 2 years on Moncada. $36mm and 3 years left for Avi. We now have a RF and someone who can take innings as backup around the OF. Anderson slots in as a passable 3b too. 

CF: I'll start with Center. Robert. no explanation needed.

DH: Eloy, easy. Slot in LF maybe 40 games. Done. Can't trade him at his lower trade value anyways. Talent is too tantalizing to trade at this value and cost. since you don't have abreu/vaughn conundrum anymore, he's your DH.    

LF: There's a few names i like, not love. brantley coming off an injury and 37 years old? Maybe a good affordable option to plug into LF and hope between him and Pollock + Eloy you can scrap together 160 starts? In a perfect world both Pollock and Brantley bounce back and stay healthy. Otherwise ... benintendi fits so well. i hate it, cause he's that slightly above average player that is affordable enough that keeps most teams in it, which drives up price. aka, look at avi garcia. he's just good enough to keep teams like the marlins in the bidding. those type of guys are tough ... meanwhile you see the big names and it's like 3-5 teams realistically can sign them so their cost per WAR is sometimes relatively cheap. I'll go Brantley for this write-up since I'm trying to keep payroll somewhat in line with what JR would allow. Brantley 1 year, 8mm

RF: In my scenario you have Avi, Brian Anderson and Brantley to hold this down until you have Colas. None of those guys above really should hold back a Colas if he's really going to be good. But they're all good enough to squint and play good baseball. Avi can bounce around as can Anderson and Pollock. Good flexibility for injuries. Is it sexy? no. but it gets the job done and opens up salary

Others: Do what you need to do to get rid of Leury's contract. Anything. Attach a prospect for all i care. i say this because that $5mm a year is crucial to my plan after this. You need to clear the likes of Leury and Joe Kelly and bite the bullet in terms of okay prospects going with them. That, or JR needs to spend a bit more for a year or two as a bridge. 

OF: Brantley, Robert, Garcia, Pollock, Anderson, Eloy

IF: Anderson, Anderson, Madrigal, Vaughn, Romy or Sosa, Yaz and some backup, any backup C

DH: Eloy, Yaz, Brantley

Lineup 1-9: Anderson, Robert, Eloy, Brantley, Vaughn, Avi Garcia, Yaz, Br. Anderson, Madrigal

Pitching staff:

Based on the above I think I've saved $20mm pre-arb raises. I'd use this to really solidify the rotation. I like Bassitt in the Lynn mold.  A bit older, always has been consistent, and still affordable. I think he could maybe be had at the same as the lynn type deal. 3/54mm? There's your $20mm spent. Even payroll. 

Verlander would be my real choice if we were to go for it. Give him 3 years, $120mm. It's truly the thing that would put us over the top and back into real contention. Having a guy like him, Cease, Lynn, Gio and Kopech? You're now again in the top tier alongside the Astros and Dodgers and Braves and Mets. without him? It's fine, we're the phillies/mariners/rays/etc. etc. a team that can maybe do something, but likely wont. 

Offer Giolito a 4 year, 68mm extension. If he turns it down, you trade him. I have a feeling he'll turn it down, but I think you offer him a number that is strong coming off a bad year, but shorter duration as the sox like to do. this wouldve been a steal at this point last offseason. He's gavin floyd folks. He's a good #3 pitcher who can be a #1 for stretches and #5 for stretches. But certainly has the talent to make a difference in the playoffs. 

Lynn/Cease/Kopech all remain, no changes. I think Davis Martin and Crochet should get injury duty and work middle relief. 

Bullpen: Keep the same. Again, if there's ANY WAY to trade Kelly, you do it. That $20mm saved goes to like $29mm and then signing a big name like Verlander really isn't that crazy considering you saved $29mm and spend $40mm ($11mm increase). The following year Yaz is off the books with Pollock. You'd be paying Avi $12mm instead of $24mm to Moncada .. so you're talking $43mm just there... again, that pays for another year of Verlander.

Rotation:

Verlander/Cease/Lynn/Giolito/Kopech with Crochet and Martin ready to roll for injury and innings management. 

I don't think any of the above is really OUTLANDISH or unrealistic. Verlander probably is, but that's why I shaved a lot of salary to get there. On paper though, that's a real team. 

[he gone.]

35 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He will be much lower since he hasnt played in a year and the year before that he was not very good.  He will be a 1 year deal guy with high incentives.

We'll bookmark this for when he signs. I'll go 1 year, $16mm. 

Don't forget ... Seiya Suzuki, $17mm annually, Avi garcia $13.25mm annually, Soler $12mm annually (all multi year), Mark Canha $13.25mm annually...Schwarbs $20mm. Andrew McCutchen got $8.5mm, Tommy Pham got $7.5mm...

If you're saying the price of Conforto is less than Mark Canha just cause of a shoulder injury and time off then sign me up. Getting the same type of deal that McCutchen got would be a steal. I'd fire my agent in a second if that's what he told me to sign. 

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, he gone. said:

We'll bookmark this for when he signs. I'll go 1 year, $16mm. 

Don't forget ... Seiya Suzuki, $17mm annually, Avi garcia $13.25mm annually, Soler $12mm annually (all multi year), Mark Canha $13.25mm annually...Schwarbs $20mm. Andrew McCutchen got $8.5mm, Tommy Pham got $7.5mm...

If you're saying the price of Conforto is less than Mark Canha just cause of a shoulder injury and time off then sign me up. Getting the same type of deal that McCutchen got would be a steal. I'd fire my agent in a second if that's what he told me to sign. 

When Garcia signed with the Rays after a terrible season with the White Sox, he got 1/$3.5 million though. He got 2/$20 from the Brewers after a 2 win season with the Rays, and he got that Miami deal after a 3 win season with the Brewers in '21. 

And let's also not forget that Conforto was already pretty bad in 2021, at least by his standards, due in large part to a different injury. 

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

When Garcia signed with the Rays after a terrible season with the White Sox, he got 1/$3.5 million though. He got 2/$20 from the Brewers after a 2 win season with the Rays, and he got that Miami deal after a 3 win season with the Brewers in '21. 

And let's also not forget that Conforto was already pretty bad in 2021, at least by his standards, due in large part to a different injury. 

I'm good gambling on him if he signs for 1 year in the $10-12 mill range. I would expect payroll to be around where it was last year so not really hoping for Brandon Nimmo at this point.

[Balta1701]

Just now, Bob Sacamano said:

I'm good gambling on him if he signs for 1 year in the $10-12 mill range. I would expect payroll to be around where it was last year so not really hoping for Brandon Nimmo at this point.

Maybe the market goes wild with so many teams wanting OF help and a new CBA existing, but yeah I would have guessed that $10 million range coming off of everything for him is probably reasonable if he's actually able to play.

Do we even know if he's expected to be healthy enough to play in 2023 to start the year? We don't want another Joe Kelly signing.