Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I was thinking you could try Lopez as closer. He actually had better peripherals than Hendriks last year. 

While you definitely could, I also believe that even if this worked it would leave the White Sox in quite a bit of need for competent middle relief. 

I don't know that it helps the White Sox to sell off Hendriks and then have to go sign Montero or Eflin to fill the gap, and even if they did their bullpen still doesn't look likely to be the class of the division.

[MEANS]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

Vaughn is the only one I recall with four-hit games, however I think he has reached his potential and he is fairly one-dimensional.

What? Reached?! He hasn't played a full major league season in his natural position. We've asked him to learn on the job while playing him out of position on a team expected to compete for a WS. AV will be much better in 2023 if we position him at 1B for the majority of the season.

[SoxBlanco]

47 minutes ago, MEANS said:

What? Reached?! He hasn't played a full major league season in his natural position. We've asked him to learn on the job while playing him out of position on a team expected to compete for a WS. AV will be much better in 2023 if we position him at 1B for the majority of the season.

And he skipped AA and AAA. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 11/3/2022 at 10:21 AM, Tnetennba said:

I'd prefer Conforto on a rebound deal.  Benintendi might be cheaper and wouldn't be a bad get, but he's really not a RF.

 

On 11/3/2022 at 10:50 AM, Quin said:

Conforto. If we're adding to the outfield, we need a guy that can go to right field.

Maybe you saw this post coming from me but why are we talking about RF .? That's Colas' spot. He's custom made for RF with that big arm of his. Do you really think he couldn't just step right in and possibly lead this team in HR and OF assists ? He jumped into the top 100 prospects based on 400 AB's. If he was any other prospect who had spend 3 seasons making his way from below A to AAA and was 22 he would be in the top 20 by now. He's the real deal.

The Sox cannot afford much. If you really want to choose between Conforto , Benintendi, Gallo etc make it for LF, Thats Benintedi's and Gallo's main spot anyway.

[Quin]

50 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

Maybe you saw this post coming from me but why are we talking about RF .? That's Colas' spot. He's custom made for RF with that big arm of his. Do you really think he couldn't just step right in and possibly lead this team in HR and OF assists ? He jumped into the top 100 prospects based on 400 AB's. If he was any other prospect who had spend 3 seasons making his way from below A to AAA and was 22 he would be in the top 20 by now. He's the real deal.

The Sox cannot afford much. If you really want to choose between Conforto , Benintendi, Gallo etc make it for LF, Thats Benintedi's and Gallo's main spot anyway.

Because he asked if we had to pick between Benintendi or Conforto. So we picked? 

And Gallo's main spot is pretty much "all of them."

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

Because he asked if we had to pick between Benintendi or Conforto. So we picked? 

And Gallo's main spot is pretty much "all of them."

If you're talking about Jack Parkman who asked , he didnt specify a field , just the players .

I quoted you and the other guy because you 2 said RF. While I agree Gallo can play LF and RF there's no need for him in RF and he has played most of his games this year and his career in LF. Oddly enough the Rangers were the only team to keep him out of LF and played him mostly in CF and RF in 2020 and 21. I suppose he could play CF better than Pollock.

Would be nice to have some interchangeable parts in the OF though after what we have witnessed the last couple of years. Gallo, Robert, Colas and Pollock can all play CF .  But in my view Robert belongs in CF , Colas in RF and anothe LHB in LF be it Bnintendi, Conforto or Gallo . I wouldn't exactly mind a LHH CF either to move Roberet to LF since he hasn't exactly played CF that well since that huge injury he had. Someone speedy and LH to take advantage of the new pickoff and shift rules.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If you're talking about Jack Parkman who asked , he didnt specify a field , just the players .

I quoted you and the other guy because you 2 said RF. While I agree Gallo can play LF and RF there's no need for him in RF and he has played most of his games this year and his career in LF. Oddly enough the Rangers were the only team to keep him out of LF and played him mostly in CF and RF in 2020 and 21. I suppose he could play CF better than Pollock.

Would be nice to have some interchangeable parts in the OF though after what we have witnessed the last couple of years. Gallo, Robert, Colas and Pollock can all play CF .  But in my view Robert belongs in CF , Colas in RF and anothe LHB in LF be it Bnintendi, Conforto or Gallo . I wouldn't exactly mind a LHH CF either to move Roberet to LF since he hasn't exactly played CF that well since that huge injury he had. Someone speedy and LH to take advantage of the new pickoff and shift rules.

The whole point of Benintendi vs Gallo was about ceiling vs floor, and power vs average. 

[HOFHurt35]

6 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The espn.com way too early power rankings. Not too fond of the Chairman.

17. Chicago White Sox

2022 record: 81-81 (second in the AL Central)

2022 final ranking: 16

There are excuses to consider -- Luis Robert, Tim Anderson and Eloy Jimenez all missed significant time with injuries -- but the disappointing season was mostly the result of too many subpar performances on a roster that didn't have quality depth to survive a few injuries.

On the bright side, four-fifths of the rotation returns with Dylan Cease perhaps the preseason AL Cy Young favorite after going 14-8 with a 2.20 ERA and 227 strikeouts in 184 innings. Lucas Giolito (4.90 ERA) needs to figure out what went wrong, and Michael Kopech has to pitch deeper into games after averaging less than five innings per start. The lineup still needs some left-handed balance, and Yoan Moncada needs to bounce back (although his big 2019 season looks more and more like a juiced-ball fluke). The biggest problem, however, might be owner Jerry Reinsdorf and his unwillingness to spend a few extra pennies to, you know, try to win the World Series.

 

So according to ESPN, LaRussa gets replaced and we will be worse. 

Is it too late to hire him back? 

 

[southsider2k5]

28 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

So according to ESPN, LaRussa gets replaced and we will be worse. 

Is it too late to hire him back? 

 

Fair chance he doesn't remember quitting.

[Balta1701]

29 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

So according to ESPN, LaRussa gets replaced and we will be worse. 

Is it too late to hire him back? 

 

This is not hard to figure out.

The White Sox had a negative run differential this year. Typically wins do follow that, over a long enough time. So they are already starting in a hole.

Then, Abreu, Cueto, Andrus, and Harrison are all free agents. They produced about 10 WAR this season, 30% of the teams total. 

They have a bottom 5 system with little to trade. They have brought up 0 top 100 prospects since Vaughn in April 2021 so very few possible breakout all star candidates.

They had one of the 4 or 5 oldest rosters in baseball this year. Even if they are clearing some guys out, everyone else is a year older.

They already have a high payroll and won’t be adding multiple big name free agents. 

They will face a tougher schedule next year. Only 13 games against Detroit.

On paper, this team is going to be worse next year than the one that finished .500 this year. The coaching staff is literally the only thing someone could hang a hat on to believe the other way. Why would any objective observer think this team is a likely contender?

[ChiSox59]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

This is not hard to figure out.

The White Sox had a negative run differential this year. Typically wins do follow that, over a long enough time. So they are already starting in a hole.

Then, Abreu, Cueto, Andrus, and Harrison are all free agents. They produced about 10 WAR this season, 30% of the teams total. 

They have a bottom 5 system with little to trade. They have brought up 0 top 100 prospects since Vaughn in April 2021 so very few possible breakout all star candidates.

They had one of the 4 or 5 oldest rosters in baseball this year. Even if they are clearing some guys out, everyone else is a year older.

They already have a high payroll and won’t be adding multiple big name free agents. 

They will face a tougher schedule next year. Only 13 games against Detroit.

On paper, this team is going to be worse next year than the one that finished .500 this year. The coaching staff is literally the only thing someone could hang a hat on to believe the other way. Why would any objective observer think this team is a likely contender?

The coaching staff, and the fact that pretty much all their best players were either hurt, bad or both. That might matter too, idk. 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The coaching staff, and the fact that pretty much all their best players were either hurt, bad or both. That might matter too, idk. 

Nope. No reason to follow the Sox until at least next century.

[SoxBlanco]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

This is not hard to figure out.

The White Sox had a negative run differential this year. Typically wins do follow that, over a long enough time. So they are already starting in a hole.

Then, Abreu, Cueto, Andrus, and Harrison are all free agents. They produced about 10 WAR this season, 30% of the teams total. 

They have a bottom 5 system with little to trade. They have brought up 0 top 100 prospects since Vaughn in April 2021 so very few possible breakout all star candidates.

They had one of the 4 or 5 oldest rosters in baseball this year. Even if they are clearing some guys out, everyone else is a year older.

They already have a high payroll and won’t be adding multiple big name free agents. 

They will face a tougher schedule next year. Only 13 games against Detroit.

On paper, this team is going to be worse next year than the one that finished .500 this year. The coaching staff is literally the only thing someone could hang a hat on to believe the other way. Why would any objective observer think this team is a likely contender?

I still like the Sox to win the division next year. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The coaching staff, and the fact that pretty much all their best players were either hurt, bad or both. That might matter too, idk. 

And to an objective outside observer, what guys get healthier as they get older? Your soon to be 34 year old closer had elbow issues this year. Your highest paid player turns 36 this year and had knee problems, not to mention his physical shape. Your second highest paid player is a catcher in his 30s with leg problems and maybe more. 2 of the guys you are hoping will be healthy this year have missed half the season each of the last two years.

You can believe what you want, but the idea that this is a great team waiting to be unleashed is going to be a hometown only perspective the entire offseason until they come out and prove it next April.

[Balta1701]

28 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I still like the Sox to win the division next year. 

Certainly possible.

But y’all better get used to power rankings and such giving this team no respect this offseason. It’s going to happen the whole time. They might well be ranked behind Cleveland in power rankings next May even if they’re in first place. 

Heck, the team better figure out how to use that as motivation too. 

[Dam8610]

I feel like "blow it all up" is simultaneously an unworkable bad option and the best option. Too many of these players' trade values have completely tanked.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

I feel like "blow it all up" is simultaneously an unworkable bad option and the best option. Too many of these players' trade values have completely tanked.

Because of this, the best answer is to play out this season and do the best you can, as some of the problem contracts go away at the end of next offseason. Maybe better coaching fixes a lot and you compete, maybe it fixes enough that a few unmovable guys become movable and that creates a path forward by July.

But if things working out is a low probability scenario, you should be cautious about making moves with long term effects.

[SoxBlanco]

27 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Certainly possible.

But y’all better get used to power rankings and such giving this team no respect this offseason. It’s going to happen the whole time. They might well be ranked behind Cleveland in power rankings next May even if they’re in first place. 

Heck, the team better figure out how to use that as motivation too. 

Totally agree. The power rankings don’t bother me at all. In fact, they deserve a shitty power ranking. 

I do think the team will use that as motivation. Combine that with new coaching, and I don’t expect anybody to be sleepwalking through games next year. 

[Tony]

26 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

I feel like "blow it all up" is simultaneously an unworkable bad option and the best option. Too many of these players' trade values have completely tanked.

Correct, it has never been and will never be the correct option given the structure of this team and the contracts. 

They went all in on the core of Moncada-Eloy-Robert-Anderson. They built around that core with Grandal-Lynn-Abreu-Giolito-Hendricks and needed guys like Cease-Kopech-Crochet to turn into studs. That's who you were going to battle with, you're pot committed. 

Obviously, it has not worked. They didn't invest in keeping guys healthy, and they certainly didn't invest in a minor league system that could produce ML-talent to replace players. So this is what you are left with. 

You sink or swim with this core. 

[35thstreetswarm]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

 

They had one of the 4 or 5 oldest rosters in baseball this year. Even if they are clearing some guys out, everyone else is a year older.

 

You’ve done this “the Sox are old” thing before and it’s misleading.  The Sox core is not old, and most of it pretty young.  Grandal is showing his age, sure, but dragging up the “average age” with a bunch of peripheral players doesn’t really tell a meaningful story.  There’s no requirement that we ding the Sox on *every* possible metric.

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

You’ve done this “the Sox are old” thing before and it’s misleading.  The Sox core is not old, and most of it pretty young.  Grandal is showing his age, sure, but dragging up the “average age” with a bunch of peripheral players doesn’t really tell a meaningful story.  There’s no requirement that we ding the Sox on *every* possible metric.

But...first of all, I can check these numbers weighted by playing time. Weighted by playing time, the White Sox in 2022 had the 8th oldest pitching staff and the 7th oldest lineup. They were the 5th oldest team in baseball in 2022 weighted by playing time. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2022-misc.shtml

And second, suggesting that the White Sox in 2022 weren't going to overperform and weren't going to be among the healthiest teams in baseball based on their ages...was correct. 

[bighurt4life]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Would be nice to have some interchangeable parts in the OF though after what we have witnessed the last couple of years. Gallo, Robert, Colas and Pollock can all play CF .  But in my view Robert belongs in CF , Colas in RF and anothe LHB in LF be it Bnintendi, Conforto or Gallo . I wouldn't exactly mind a LHH CF either to move Roberet to LF since he hasn't exactly played CF that well since that huge injury he had. Someone speedy and LH to take advantage of the new pickoff and shift rules.

Haven’t heard anyone mention Adam Frazier. We already can pencil in Pollock b/c he’ll exercise his option, then Robert, Eloy, and hopefully Colas sooner than later. 

I’d rather bet on a bounce back year from Frazier as he is truly a utility guy who can play all over the OF. Also, he’s primarily a 2B so if Colas takes the RF spot and runs with it we can give Frazier plenty of AB’s replacing Harrison at 2nd while having a LH bat that can spot start all 3 OF positions. 
He had a pretty ugly year in Seattle but I’d you look at the numbers he just hit into a lot of bad luck, all the peripherals were in line with his career average. I like him in a 1 year prove it with a 2nd year team option. 

[Sarava]

9 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

So according to ESPN, LaRussa gets replaced and we will be worse. 

Is it too late to hire him back? 

 

I can see it both ways. that Hahn has already kind of mentioned they wont be spending much in free agency might be part of any negative ratings on the Sox.

But either way - I want them to be rated low. And let the guys see these previews. Maybe they'll develop a chip on their shoulder.

[maloney.adam]

The Sox are basically going to run the same team out there. FA signings will be marginal at best. If anything significant, which I highly doubt, will be through trades.

Edited November 8, 2022 by maloney.adam

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

The Sox are going to run the same team out there. FA signings will be marginal at best. If anything significant, which I highly doubt, will be through trades.

Adam Maloney = ComiskeyFootlongDog confirmed