Sarava Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 1:09 AM, Balta1701 said: I could definitely see him taking 2/20 with an opt out after 1 but the White Sox insisted they don’t do opt outs last time it came up. Expand I think he'll get more. You have a possible TOR guy if he shakes off the TJ. Someone will bite on that for more than #5 starter money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/12/2022 at 8:42 PM, Jack Parkman said: Yeah, because it doesn't make sense to trade him after the season he just had and it seems they're dead set on doing so. Expand I'm not as confident as most of you guys that Giolito will bounce back. But yeah, you hope they don't just give him away, especially if they are in cheapskate mode this winter - which all indications point to being true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/13/2022 at 10:30 PM, bmags said: Let’s add all the nut bags Expand What’s this about? What makes him a nut bag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) On 11/14/2022 at 1:17 AM, Sarava said: I'm not as confident as most of you guys that Giolito will bounce back. But yeah, you hope they don't just give him away, especially if they are in cheapskate mode this winter - which all indications point to being true. Expand I think it's a toss-up and it's really about where he is physically. Can he hit 95-96 mph regularly again? If not, his ceiling is a lot lower. I trust that he'll put in the work, but I don't know if his body will cooperate. That being said, what pitcher on the market for 1/$10-11M has as much upside as Giolito? Idk. It just seems like they're going to trade him for whatever they can asap and grab two of Clevinger/ Quintana/Manaea Edited November 14, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 12:32 AM, Y2Jimmy0 said: I don’t think that Rick Hahn will be front office member to blame if this off-season goes as poorly as expected Expand I assume you mean Jerry which I fully agree is the bigger problem and why we are setup for failure. But I’d be far more optimistic that we could luck into a couple quality moves with a more competent GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 1:59 AM, Jack Parkman said: I think it's a toss-up and it's really about where he is physically. Can he hit 95-96 mph regularly again? If not, his ceiling is a lot lower. I trust that he'll put in the work, but I don't know if his body will cooperate. That being said, what pitcher on the market for 1/$10-11M has as much upside as Giolito? Idk. It just seems like they're going to trade him for whatever they can asap and grab two of Clevinger/ Quintana/Manaea Expand The other part with Giolito we can’t ignore is that his spin rate was down substantially on his fastball last year. How much of TOR Giolito was a function of spinning the ball faster thanks to sticky stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 1:50 AM, Leonard Zelig said: What’s this about? What makes him a nut bag? Expand 2020 Cleveland basically gave him away because they were furious he went out with Plesac in Chicago, where plesac got covid, lied about it, went on plane with everyone, then got caught lying about all of it. Apparently the whole locker room turned on him and led to the trade. Nut bag might not have been best insult but yes maybe not the best person to add to the miserable mix that is our locker room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 2:50 AM, bmags said: 2020 Cleveland basically gave him away because they were furious he went out with Plesac in Chicago, where plesac got covid, lied about it, went on plane with everyone, then got caught lying about all of it. Apparently the whole locker room turned on him and led to the trade. Nut bag might not have been best insult but yes maybe not the best person to add to the miserable mix that is our locker room. Expand He was also involved with the girl in the Bauer case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 2:43 AM, Balta1701 said: The other part with Giolito we can’t ignore is that his spin rate was down substantially on his fastball last year. How much of TOR Giolito was a function of spinning the ball faster thanks to sticky stuff? Expand The White Sox should know the answer to this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) On 11/14/2022 at 2:43 AM, Balta1701 said: The other part with Giolito we can’t ignore is that his spin rate was down substantially on his fastball last year. How much of TOR Giolito was a function of spinning the ball faster thanks to sticky stuff? Expand JMO but I think with Giolito his velocity and carry are correlated. He never had even average spin. What he did have is carry, and that was way down this year. Edited November 14, 2022 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 4:01 AM, Jack Parkman said: JMO but I think with Giolito his velocity and carry are correlated. He never had even average spin. What he did have is carry, and that was way down this year. Expand It’s all velocity for him IMO. Was it the sticky stuff that allowed him to sit 95-96, touching 97? I have no clue. What I feel like I do know is he gets shelled 92-94. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 4:40 AM, Jerksticks said: It’s all velocity for him IMO. Was it the sticky stuff that allowed him to sit 95-96, touching 97? I have no clue. What I feel like I do know is he gets shelled 92-94. Expand It probably helped for sure. I don't think his decision to bulk up and wreck his mechanics helped much either. I've said before any chance at a competitive 2023 Sox team involves him being successful/good. On 11/14/2022 at 1:59 AM, Jack Parkman said: I think it's a toss-up and it's really about where he is physically. Can he hit 95-96 mph regularly again? If not, his ceiling is a lot lower. I trust that he'll put in the work, but I don't know if his body will cooperate. That being said, what pitcher on the market for 1/$10-11M has as much upside as Giolito? Idk. It just seems like they're going to trade him for whatever they can asap and grab two of Clevinger/ Quintana/Manaea Expand Sox aren't in rushed position to move him for peanuts as they can net the draft pick if he walks. No reason to accept anything less than that value if he is on the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 2:50 AM, bmags said: 2020 Cleveland basically gave him away because they were furious he went out with Plesac in Chicago, where plesac got covid, lied about it, went on plane with everyone, then got caught lying about all of it. Apparently the whole locker room turned on him and led to the trade. Nut bag might not have been best insult but yes maybe not the best person to add to the miserable mix that is our locker room. Expand Oh, yeah, I kinda remember some of that now, but I had completely forgotten about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 1:59 AM, Jack Parkman said: I think it's a toss-up and it's really about where he is physically. Can he hit 95-96 mph regularly again? If not, his ceiling is a lot lower. I trust that he'll put in the work, but I don't know if his body will cooperate. That being said, what pitcher on the market for 1/$10-11M has as much upside as Giolito? Idk. It just seems like they're going to trade him for whatever they can asap and grab two of Clevinger/ Quintana/Manaea Expand Clevinger has as much upside as Giolito. Not sure you can get him for 10 mil though. And the Covid/Plesac thing is one incident. My God we all make mistakes in life. I haven't heard of anything else negative with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 12:06 PM, Sarava said: Clevinger has as much upside as Giolito. Not sure you can get him for 10 mil though. And the Covid/Plesac thing is one incident. My God we all make mistakes in life. I haven't heard of anything else negative with him. Expand I doubt it was one incident given how Cleveland reacted. Probably just one incident we knew about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 1:17 PM, bmags said: I doubt it was one incident given how Cleveland reacted. Probably just one incident we knew about. Expand At least for Plesac it was more than just the one incident of being a knucklehead. not sure about Clevinger though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Clevinger has pitched more than 126 innings in a season once in his career. It would be White Soxy to think he can give you more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 1:17 PM, bmags said: I doubt it was one incident given how Cleveland reacted. Probably just one incident we knew about. Expand You're correct! His history of dumbassery also includes breaking his hand punching the mound over a Jake Lamb home run. Clevinger idk, but Plesac is definitely a top tier dumbass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 I'd take Quintana over Clevenger all day long. I'd want no part of that F'n guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 I think this cuts across a few of Hahn's tendencies...plausible. I would probably guess more than Vaughn goes out, and that people would be revolted by the return but it does save the Pads around $17M so I thought it was plausible. I did not tender Eaton. Team: C - Grandal, Zavala, Perez INF - Bell, Moncada, Anderson, Amaya, Mendick, Sosa, Romy, Leury OF - Robert, Grisham, Colas, Outman DH - Eloy, Sheets SP - Cease, Lynn, Snell, Kopech, Lopez/Martin BP - Hendriks, Graveman, Bummer, Crochet, Kelly, Diekman, Lambert Add $3-4 M for that random vet SP we'll sign. Positive accomplishments: - Increase in left handed power - Increase in defensive flexibility - Moves Eloy to DH - Maintains Bullpen depth Negatives: - SP will almost certainly bring you much less production than last year - Loss of huge amounts of offensive production from Vaughn/Abreu Overall, you'd assume to target this group at 81 wins again unless Moncada/Anderson/Robert/Grandal get their s%*# together. I kept Montgomery, etc for the most part. So a deadline deal is possible for starter if team is looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 2:31 PM, Dick Allen said: Clevinger has pitched more than 126 innings in a season once in his career. It would be White Soxy to think he can give you more than that. Expand I think people at $10M are hedging that risk enough. He'll likely get $15-16 just judging by some recent deals. I wouldn't touch him with ten foot pole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 2:53 PM, bmags said: Expand What can you do at $180 million? That was the last reported payroll limit, although it did conflict with Hahn's statement a day or two before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/14/2022 at 3:53 PM, Balta1701 said: What can you do at $180 million? That was the last reported payroll limit, although it did conflict with Hahn's statement a day or two before. Expand Basically replace josh bell with gavin sheets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) If the budget is really $180M they shouldn't be trading guys like Vaughn, Crochet, Montgomery, Colas, Vera, Schultz, etc. Just dumpster dive to fill holes and hope for the best. And they should trade Hendriks and hope that either Graveman or Lopez can close. They should be just fine going into the season with holes on their roster because they aren't serious about winning with that budget anyway. Edited November 14, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) On 11/14/2022 at 7:53 PM, Jack Parkman said: If the budget is really $180M they shouldn't be trading guys like Vaughn, Crochet, Montgomery, Colas, Vera, Schultz, etc. Just dumpster dive to fill holes and hope for the best. And they should trade Hendriks and hope that either Graveman or Lopez can close. Expand I've mentioned it before, I can't be a bigger Liam Hendriks fan both as a player and a person. He's been great as a White Sox, but if you can get something nice for him, now is the time. I worry about his elbow, and how the pitch clock may effect his performance. No one Is really talking about how the pitch clock can really change the guys with the max effort gas. A lot need more than the 15 seconds in recovery time. Edited November 14, 2022 by Dick Allen 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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