Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Is NBB suggesting there is another free agent contract in the works?

Either that or a trade 

[Chicago White Sox]

34 minutes ago, fathom said:

Either that or a trade 

 

[ChiSoxFanMike]

20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 

So in other words he doesn’t know anything but is acting like he does. He’s just like the foodies!

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

So in other words he doesn’t know anything but is acting like he does. He’s just like the foodies!

Honestly,  I believe a guy who isn't sharing tons of names versus the guys who are laying the whole plan out there. Makes more sense to protect sources versus what would be burning them all.

[Balta1701]

Oh come on guys this is literally a tweet saying the White Sox May do something somewhere somehow possibly. A tweet saying “the Chicago White Sox are a Major League Baseball franchise” has exactly that same amount of information.

[The Beast]

20 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think the Sox have to go forward with Vaughn. This is one thing I agree with everyone on. 2023 could be an even bigger breakout year since it'll be his 3rd year in the league. 1st year was a disaster offensively but not unexpected given he was out of position and had very little time in the minors .

2nd year was a disaster defensively but he started showing his potential offensively. He didn't have the legs to play OF and it wore him out. He'll be in more of a comfort zone  playing 1st base.

Sheets :I really wanted him to do well last year. He showed it at home offensively but as a whole that's only 1/4 of the job. the other 3/4 is offensively on the road (terrible) and defensively both at home and on the road (also terrible).  There's no room for him in the OF. The Sox have to improve defensively.  A Sheets /Colas platoon doesn't work for me because it requires Sheets to play OF and both are LH.

Colas showed in the minors he can hit LHP. I'm not expecting miracles from him as a rookie but he needs to play every day and more than Vaughn did his 1st year. He should have the chops defensively . Offensively I don't think he'll be a liability but he has holes in his game. Mostly ones that a lot of guys do, mainly K's and plate discipline but I think he needs to be just playing and helping defensively and the bat may surprise us all. At least the majority of pitchers he'll be facing are RH so that will help as much as it hurt Vaughn.

Sheets should be traded. He isn't versatile enough to be on the roster as a bench piece. Of course he could be a depth piece in the Minors at 1st base if Vaughn gets hurt.

Thanks for the analysis. Sheets should be dealt for a piece they need and I am sure they could sign someone to be a bench or depth piece. I can get on board with Colas, but can they win with him developing in the majors or does it make sense to invest in another established hitter to go along with Colas? 

Wishful thinking is they trade Sheets for a starting pitcher or catcher, sign someone to play right, put Colas in left and start Eloy at DH. But we all know what they will do… 

10 hours ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

I think this board is largely taking for granted that the Sox have slated Eloy for DH, in order to justify the loss of Abreu.

My money is on Eloy in left with a Burger/Sheets platoon at DH. 
 

Abreu stated the Sox made him a “great offer,” but that he would leave it at that. If that were the case, that suggests to me two things. That Abreu simply did not want to be part of the dysfunctional Sox anymore, and that the Sox have Eloy slated for left. I don’t believe the Sox are interested in moving either Eloy or Vaughn. The offensive upside is too high. Eloy is still a young man with a favorable contract. Vaughn to me has .300/.400/.550 kind of potential, but whether that comes to fruition next year or three years from now is the question. So if they did offer Abreu a contract, they must have considered Eloy in left acceptable.

My prediction is an outfield of Eloy, Robert, Colas and a budget left handed 4th OFer. Maybe someone like Robbie Grossman. Or like as mentioned a trade for someone like Outman. 
 

This is the Sox were talking about after all

My money is on Eloy being in left and that I’ll be disappointed we don’t use resources for an everyday right fielder. JR needs to take a risk and pony up to sign a multi year contract on an every day player rather than have his GM go dumpster diving.

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Either that or a trade 

Just make moves to improve this team. It looks a little light with Abreu gone.

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Thanks for the analysis. Sheets should be dealt for a piece they need and I am sure they could sign someone to be a bench or depth piece. I can get on board with Colas, but can they win with him developing in the majors or does it make sense to invest in another established hitter to go along with Colas? 

Wishful thinking is they trade Sheets for a starting pitcher or catcher, sign someone to play right, put Colas in left and start Eloy at DH. But we all know what they will do… 

My money is on Eloy being in left and that I’ll be disappointed we don’t use resources for an everyday right fielder. JR needs to take a risk and pony up to sign a multi year contract on an every day player rather than have his GM go dumpster diving.

Gavin Sheets doesn’t have any more value than a bench piece in a trade, certainly not a starter. I’m not even sure you could get Davis Martin for him if Martin was in some other team. Maybe if the other team was deeper for a 1b and had more pitching than about any other team in baseball.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Gavin Sheets doesn’t have any more value than a bench piece in a trade, certainly not a starter. I’m not even sure you could get Davis Martin for him if Martin was in some other team.

This board consistently overrates Sox players. 

[The Beast]

29 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Gavin Sheets doesn’t have any more value than a bench piece in a trade, certainly not a starter. I’m not even sure you could get Davis Martin for him if Martin was in some other team. Maybe if the other team was deeper for a 1b and had more pitching than about any other team in baseball.

 

24 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

This board consistently overrates Sox players. 

Then who are they going to trade to make this team better and not create holes? And why the f*** were we throwing Sheets’ name around to be dealt last offseason?

[ron883]

 

[The Beast]

4 minutes ago, ron883 said:

 

 

Let’s hope so. Until then I’ll think this about these rumors…

 

[Jack Parkman]

22 minutes ago, The Beast said:

 

Then who are they going to trade to make this team better and not create holes? And why the f*** were we throwing Sheets’ name around to be dealt last offseason?

They can't, that's the conundrum. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

30 minutes ago, The Beast said:

 

Then who are they going to trade to make this team better and not create holes? And why the f*** were we throwing Sheets’ name around to be dealt last offseason?

The two logical choice are Hendriks or Graveman. They have too much money in the bullpen.  The recent contract the Mets gave Diaz for $20M per year might make Hendriks contract more palatable for some teams. There is some concern about his arm that might lower a return but I've been recommending an MLB ready OF like James Outman of the Dodgers . They can see if the could get another minor league pitcher also from the Dodgers if the Sox also throw in a prospect.

It's certainly risky to put 2 Rookies in the OF but Colas is a natural RF with a nice arm. Outman in LF or CF and perhaps move Robert to LF to ease the strain on the complete tear of the left hip flexor . He just wasn't the same guy defensively in 2022 and  a move to LF may re-energize him. Outman is a very good defender with an arm equal if not better than Colas. We'd certainly get much better defense in the OF.

Both being LHH's provides them with an opportunity to face mostly RHP. Both have big time power also and the new rules with shifts will also help them and in Outmans case, the new pickoff rules could help both him and Robert steal bases easier.

Depending on what they have to spend you could replace Hendricks with Lopez as the closer and fill out the BP with other guys . The core guys have to be kept healthy and bounce back no matter what if the Sox are going to contend. If they can stay healthier and produce, the better OF defense should be very helpful.

Obviously no matter what the Sox do they are taking risks on either rookies or some expensive OF many of whom are also bounce back guys. Right now the risk is higher with the more money you spend and only a year or two of production, which is why I'd rather roll with the rookies. If the Sox can hang in the race til the trade deadline, they can reassess the areas of need. Saving money on Rookies gives the team a brighter future and the ability to spend more money at the trade deadline if the core can stay healthy and guys bounce back. If they don't then no matter what the Sox do this off season they won't contend.

Even if they can pry Outman away from the Dodgers and have big plans for Colas the Sox just may keep Colas down to gain the extra year. They would need another OF but I don't expect  Conforto, Gallo or Bellinger. Perhaps David Peralta on a 1 yr deal who is much better against RHP than LHP .

Most of the Sox players coming off bad years are worth more to the Sox than they are to the rest of baseball so I can't see many trades unless they just go psycho which isn't their style.

It'll be a pretty quiet off season and we'll just have to wait and see how the guys that need to play better and be healthier perform. It's a long list,  Lynn, Kopech, Giolito, Robert , Eloy, Moncada, Grandal, Anderson all have to step it up a notch.

[The Beast]

18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The two logical choice are Hendriks or Graveman. They have too much money in the bullpen.  The recent contract the Mets gave Diaz for $20M per year might make Hendriks contract more palatable for some teams. There is some concern about his arm that might lower a return but I've been recommending an MLB ready OF like James Outman of the Dodgers . They can see if the could get another minor league pitcher also from the Dodgers if the Sox also throw in a prospect.

It's certainly risky to put 2 Rookies in the OF but Colas is a natural RF with a nice arm. Outman in LF or CF and perhaps move Robert to LF to ease the strain on the complete tear of the left hip flexor . He just wasn't the same guy defensively in 2022 and  a move to LF may re-energize him. Outman is a very good defender with an arm equal if not better than Colas. We'd certainly get much better defense in the OF.

Both being LHH's provides them with an opportunity to face mostly RHP. Both have big time power also and the new rules with shifts will also help them and in Outmans case, the new pickoff rules could help both him and Robert steal bases easier.

Depending on what they have to spend you could replace Hendricks with Lopez as the closer and fill out the BP with other guys . The core guys have to be kept healthy and bounce back no matter what if the Sox are going to contend. If they can stay healthier and produce, the better OF defense should be very helpful.

Obviously no matter what the Sox do they are taking risks on either rookies or some expensive OF many of whom are also bounce back guys. Right now the risk is higher with the more money you spend and only a year or two of production, which is why I'd rather roll with the rookies. If the Sox can hang in the race til the trade deadline, they can reassess the areas of need. Saving money on Rookies gives the team a brighter future and the ability to spend more money at the trade deadline if the core can stay healthy and guys bounce back. If they don't then no matter what the Sox do this off season they won't contend.

Even if they can pry Outman away from the Dodgers and have big plans for Colas the Sox just may keep Colas down to gain the extra year. They would need another OF but I don't expect  Conforto, Gallo or Bellinger. Perhaps David Peralta on a 1 yr deal who is much better against RHP than LHP .

Most of the Sox players coming off bad years are worth more to the Sox than they are to the rest of baseball so I can't see many trades unless they just go psycho which isn't their style.

It'll be a pretty quiet off season and we'll just have to wait and see how the guys that need to play better and be healthier perform. It's a long list,  Lynn, Kopech, Giolito, Robert , Eloy, Moncada, Grandal, Anderson all have to step it up a notch.

That all makes sense and is logical. I would prefer Graveman be the one who who is dealt, but Hendriks might be the dude who is more in demand. I’d rather split the difference and acquire a rookie outfielder and keep one of the high priced relievers. I guess these are the consequences that they face with how they have allocated resources in years past. It seems like the board might be in agreement with coming to accept a quiet offseason instead of spending their way out of the hole they are in.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 minutes ago, The Beast said:

That all makes sense and is logical. I would prefer Graveman be the one who who is dealt, but Hendriks might be the dude who is more in demand. I’d rather split the difference and acquire a rookie outfielder and keep one of the high priced relievers. I guess these are the consequences that they face with how they have allocated resources in years past. It seems like the board might be in agreement with coming to accept a quiet offseason instead of spending their way out of the hole they are in.

It's almost better that Hahn does next to nothing than do too much. He's terrible with veteran acquisitions. He does better trading for minor leaguers with his top notch talent. He should pretend the Sox are selling off pieces for an on the fly rebuild.  Hendrik's will be the only guy traded off which could produce results. I think Colas has a bright future and Outman may also. I keep talking about him but the Dodgers may have big plans for him this year without Bellinger and Gallo also gone. Trace Thompson and Chris Taylor aren't exactly world beaters. Betts of course is still there and Dodgers making a big push for Judge would help but we're hearing more about the Giants and Yankees more than the Dodgers lately in that regard.

https://dodgersway.com/2022/09/28/dodgers-james-outman-explains-power-surge-incline-podcast/

[poppysox]

10 hours ago, The Beast said:

 

Then who are they going to trade to make this team better and not create holes? And why the f*** were we throwing Sheets’ name around to be dealt last offseason?

Sheets has value to us as a part time 1st, DH, PH, and OF when needed.  Probably just as valuable to us as anyone else.

[poppysox]

10 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

They can't, that's the conundrum. 

Some trades are based on salary relief more than return.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Sheets has value to us as a part time 1st, DH, PH, and OF when needed.  Probably just as valuable to us as anyone else.

That’s because he’s not very valuable to anyone.. including us

[TheFutureIsNear]

13 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

That’s because he’s not very valuable to anyone.. including us

IF (it’s a big if) the front office does their job and adds LH OF’ers I think it will actually be difficult to justify a roster spot for Sheets. It will most likely come down to 1 spot for Burger or Sheets. If the front office fails to add enough lefties to the lineup then I guess Sheets will make it by default, but I’d like to see Burger on the roster all year. 

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

IF (it’s a big if) the front office does their job and adds LH OF’ers I think it will actually be difficult to justify a roster spot for Sheets. It will most likely come down to 1 spot for Burger or Sheets. If the front office fails to add enough lefties to the lineup then I guess Sheets will make it by default, but I’d like to see Burger on the roster all year. 

I think Sheets and Burger are pretty valuable depth pieces. Both should spent the majority of the year in AAA, and their options are very valuable to the Sox. When you have a roster littered with dudes that get hurt a lot, having guys like Sheets and Burger around is nice.

That being said, if you can turn one of them - I am more inclined to move Burger - into a controllable back end SP with options, I think you have to do it. But I would not be looking to just trade either of them for whatever you can get. I promise you both will be needed at times in 2023.  

[poppysox]

31 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

That’s because he’s not very valuable to anyone.. including us

I disagree...but we shall see.

[MiddleCoastBias]

11 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The two logical choice are Hendriks or Graveman. They have too much money in the bullpen.  The recent contract the Mets gave Diaz for $20M per year might make Hendriks contract more palatable for some teams. There is some concern about his arm that might lower a return but I've been recommending an MLB ready OF like James Outman of the Dodgers . They can see if the could get another minor league pitcher also from the Dodgers if the Sox also throw in a prospect.

It's certainly risky to put 2 Rookies in the OF but Colas is a natural RF with a nice arm. Outman in LF or CF and perhaps move Robert to LF to ease the strain on the complete tear of the left hip flexor . He just wasn't the same guy defensively in 2022 and  a move to LF may re-energize him. Outman is a very good defender with an arm equal if not better than Colas. We'd certainly get much better defense in the OF.

Both being LHH's provides them with an opportunity to face mostly RHP. Both have big time power also and the new rules with shifts will also help them and in Outmans case, the new pickoff rules could help both him and Robert steal bases easier.

Depending on what they have to spend you could replace Hendricks with Lopez as the closer and fill out the BP with other guys . The core guys have to be kept healthy and bounce back no matter what if the Sox are going to contend. If they can stay healthier and produce, the better OF defense should be very helpful.

Obviously no matter what the Sox do they are taking risks on either rookies or some expensive OF many of whom are also bounce back guys. Right now the risk is higher with the more money you spend and only a year or two of production, which is why I'd rather roll with the rookies. If the Sox can hang in the race til the trade deadline, they can reassess the areas of need. Saving money on Rookies gives the team a brighter future and the ability to spend more money at the trade deadline if the core can stay healthy and guys bounce back. If they don't then no matter what the Sox do this off season they won't contend.

Even if they can pry Outman away from the Dodgers and have big plans for Colas the Sox just may keep Colas down to gain the extra year. They would need another OF but I don't expect  Conforto, Gallo or Bellinger. Perhaps David Peralta on a 1 yr deal who is much better against RHP than LHP .

Most of the Sox players coming off bad years are worth more to the Sox than they are to the rest of baseball so I can't see many trades unless they just go psycho which isn't their style.

It'll be a pretty quiet off season and we'll just have to wait and see how the guys that need to play better and be healthier perform. It's a long list,  Lynn, Kopech, Giolito, Robert , Eloy, Moncada, Grandal, Anderson all have to step it up a notch.

You make a lot of interesting points and a lot of things could go right with these moves, but my hangup is: ReyLo as our closer.

Not to say he can't function as the closer, I just wonder if that's the move we make as a team trying to compete for the World Series? I get you don't know if a guy CAN close until you try him there, but that seems like a big risk to if we find out he CAN'T close.

That's a move you make if you're a year or two from contention but a gamble play in what is supposed to be a contention year.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think Sheets and Burger are pretty valuable depth pieces. Both should spent the majority of the year in AAA, and their options are very valuable to the Sox. When you have a roster littered with dudes that get hurt a lot, having guys like Sheets and Burger around is nice.

That being said, if you can turn one of them - I am more inclined to move Burger - into a controllable back end SP with options, I think you have to do it. But I would not be looking to just trade either of them for whatever you can get. I promise you both will be needed at times in 2023.  

Fully agree.  I think Burger makes more sense to move just because I think he will command more trade value and Sheets’ LH bat has more value to us in the event of a Eloy or Vaughn injury.  But neither guy should be given away.

[A-Train to 35th]

15 hours ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Right but that only makes sense if Eloy is blocking DH. Otherwise there would be room for Vaughn and Abreu. When Eloy is playing leftfield six months from now, that argument no longer makes. It’s not a matter of Vaughn vs Abreu. It’s Sheets/Burger vs Abreu. This is ignored because it doesn’t support the Sox are better without Abreu argument

Eloy needs to be the DH period, trotting him out to LF only increases the chances when he injures himself or the possibility that he will injure our SS or CF when he tries to make a play he shouldn't. We could have gotten by with Vaughn and Abreu splitting time at DH-1B if we didn't have so many DH's to begin with. I don't think Grandal will hold up behind the plate and if  he get's his stroke back we need his Left handed bat in the line-up with the only other place for him being DH.

In a nutshell this team is poorly constructed with injury prone (Robert included) players or players that should ONLY be DH'ing, but we've know this for awhile.