Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Sarava]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I could definitely see him taking 2/20 with an opt out after 1 but the White Sox insisted they don’t do opt outs last time it came up.

I think he'll get more. You have a possible TOR guy if he shakes off the TJ. Someone will bite on that for more than #5 starter money.

[Sarava]

On 11/12/2022 at 2:42 PM, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah, because it doesn't make sense to trade him after the season he just had and it seems they're dead set on doing so.

I'm not as confident as most of you guys that Giolito will bounce back. But yeah, you hope they don't just give him away, especially if they are in cheapskate mode this winter - which all indications point to being true.

[Leonard Zelig]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

Let’s add all the nut bags

What’s this about?  What makes him a nut bag?

[Jack Parkman]

43 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I'm not as confident as most of you guys that Giolito will bounce back. But yeah, you hope they don't just give him away, especially if they are in cheapskate mode this winter - which all indications point to being true.

I think it's a toss-up and it's really about where he is physically. Can he hit 95-96 mph regularly again? If not, his ceiling is a lot lower. I trust that he'll put in the work, but I don't know if his body will cooperate. 

That being said, what pitcher on the market for 1/$10-11M has as much upside as Giolito? 

Idk. It just seems like they're going to trade him for whatever they can asap and grab two of Clevinger/ Quintana/Manaea

Edited November 14, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I don’t think that Rick Hahn will be front office member to blame if this off-season goes as poorly as expected 

I assume you mean Jerry which I fully agree is the bigger problem and why we are setup for failure.  But I’d be far more optimistic that we could luck into a couple quality moves with a more competent GM.

[Balta1701]

42 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think it's a toss-up and it's really about where he is physically. Can he hit 95-96 mph regularly again? If not, his ceiling is a lot lower. I trust that he'll put in the work, but I don't know if his body will cooperate. 

That being said, what pitcher on the market for 1/$10-11M has as much upside as Giolito? 

Idk. It just seems like they're going to trade him for whatever they can asap and grab two of Clevinger/ Quintana/Manaea

The other part with Giolito we can’t ignore is that his spin rate was down substantially on his fastball last year. How much of TOR Giolito was a function of spinning the ball faster thanks to sticky stuff?

[bmags]

55 minutes ago, Leonard Zelig said:

What’s this about?  What makes him a nut bag?

2020 Cleveland basically gave him away because they were furious he went out with Plesac in Chicago, where plesac got covid, lied about it, went on plane with everyone, then got caught lying about all of it. Apparently the whole locker room turned on him and led to the trade.

Nut bag might not have been best insult but yes maybe not the best person to add to the miserable mix that is our locker room.

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

2020 Cleveland basically gave him away because they were furious he went out with Plesac in Chicago, where plesac got covid, lied about it, went on plane with everyone, then got caught lying about all of it. Apparently the whole locker room turned on him and led to the trade.

Nut bag might not have been best insult but yes maybe not the best person to add to the miserable mix that is our locker room.

He was also involved with the girl in the Bauer case

[Tony]

42 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The other part with Giolito we can’t ignore is that his spin rate was down substantially on his fastball last year. How much of TOR Giolito was a function of spinning the ball faster thanks to sticky stuff?

The White Sox should know the answer to this

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

The other part with Giolito we can’t ignore is that his spin rate was down substantially on his fastball last year. How much of TOR Giolito was a function of spinning the ball faster thanks to sticky stuff?

JMO but I think with Giolito his velocity and carry are correlated. He never had even average spin. What he did have is carry, and that was way down this year. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Jerksticks]

37 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

JMO but I think with Giolito his velocity and carry are correlated. He never had even average spin. What he did have is carry, and that was way down this year. 

It’s all velocity for him IMO.  Was it the sticky stuff that allowed him to sit 95-96, touching 97?  I have no clue.  
 

What I feel like I do know is he gets shelled 92-94.  

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

It’s all velocity for him IMO.  Was it the sticky stuff that allowed him to sit 95-96, touching 97?  I have no clue.  
 

What I feel like I do know is he gets shelled 92-94.  

It probably helped for sure. I don't think his decision to bulk up and wreck his mechanics helped much either. I've said before any chance at a competitive 2023 Sox team involves him being successful/good.

4 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think it's a toss-up and it's really about where he is physically. Can he hit 95-96 mph regularly again? If not, his ceiling is a lot lower. I trust that he'll put in the work, but I don't know if his body will cooperate. 

That being said, what pitcher on the market for 1/$10-11M has as much upside as Giolito? 

Idk. It just seems like they're going to trade him for whatever they can asap and grab two of Clevinger/ Quintana/Manaea

Sox aren't in rushed position to move him for peanuts as they can net the draft pick if he walks. No reason to accept anything less than that value if he is on the block.

[Leonard Zelig]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

2020 Cleveland basically gave him away because they were furious he went out with Plesac in Chicago, where plesac got covid, lied about it, went on plane with everyone, then got caught lying about all of it. Apparently the whole locker room turned on him and led to the trade.

Nut bag might not have been best insult but yes maybe not the best person to add to the miserable mix that is our locker room.

Oh, yeah, I kinda remember some of that now, but I had completely forgotten about it. 

[Sarava]

10 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think it's a toss-up and it's really about where he is physically. Can he hit 95-96 mph regularly again? If not, his ceiling is a lot lower. I trust that he'll put in the work, but I don't know if his body will cooperate. 

That being said, what pitcher on the market for 1/$10-11M has as much upside as Giolito? 

Idk. It just seems like they're going to trade him for whatever they can asap and grab two of Clevinger/ Quintana/Manaea

Clevinger has as much upside as Giolito. Not sure you can get him for 10 mil though.

And the Covid/Plesac thing is one incident. My God we all make mistakes in life. I haven't heard of anything else negative with him.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Sarava said:

Clevinger has as much upside as Giolito. Not sure you can get him for 10 mil though.

And the Covid/Plesac thing is one incident. My God we all make mistakes in life. I haven't heard of anything else negative with him.

I doubt it was one incident given how Cleveland reacted. Probably just one incident we knew about.

[JoeC]

16 minutes ago, bmags said:

I doubt it was one incident given how Cleveland reacted. Probably just one incident we knew about.

At least for Plesac it was more than just the one incident of being a knucklehead.

not sure about Clevinger though

[Dick Allen]

Clevinger  has pitched more than 126 innings in a season once in his career. It would be White Soxy to think he can give you more than that.

[Quin]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I doubt it was one incident given how Cleveland reacted. Probably just one incident we knew about.

You're correct! His history of dumbassery also includes breaking his hand punching the mound over a Jake Lamb home run.

Clevinger idk, but Plesac is definitely a top tier dumbass.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

I'd take Quintana over Clevenger all day long.  I'd want no part of that F'n guy.  

[bmags]

I think this cuts across a few of Hahn's tendencies...plausible. I would probably guess more than Vaughn goes out, and that people would be revolted by the return but it does save the Pads around $17M so I thought it was plausible. I did not tender Eaton.

Team:
C - Grandal, Zavala, Perez
INF - Bell, Moncada, Anderson, Amaya, Mendick, Sosa, Romy, Leury
OF - Robert, Grisham, Colas, Outman
DH - Eloy, Sheets
SP - Cease, Lynn, Snell, Kopech, Lopez/Martin
BP - Hendriks, Graveman, Bummer, Crochet, Kelly, Diekman, Lambert

Add $3-4 M for that random vet SP we'll sign.

Positive accomplishments:
- Increase in left handed power
- Increase in defensive flexibility
- Moves Eloy to DH
- Maintains Bullpen depth

Negatives:
- SP will almost certainly bring you much less production than last year
- Loss of huge amounts of offensive production from Vaughn/Abreu

Overall, you'd assume to target this group at 81 wins again unless Moncada/Anderson/Robert/Grandal get their s%*# together. 

I kept Montgomery, etc for the most part. So a deadline deal is possible for starter if team is looking good.
 

[bmags]

23 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Clevinger  has pitched more than 126 innings in a season once in his career. It would be White Soxy to think he can give you more than that.

I think people at $10M are hedging that risk enough. He'll likely get $15-16 just judging by some recent deals. I wouldn't touch him with ten foot pole.

[Balta1701]

59 minutes ago, bmags said:

 

What can you do at $180 million? That was the last reported payroll limit, although it did conflict with Hahn's statement a day or two before. 

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What can you do at $180 million? That was the last reported payroll limit, although it did conflict with Hahn's statement a day or two before. 

Basically replace josh bell with gavin sheets.

[Jack Parkman]

If the budget is really $180M they shouldn't be trading guys like Vaughn, Crochet, Montgomery, Colas, Vera, Schultz, etc. 

Just dumpster dive to fill holes and hope for the best.

And they should trade Hendriks and hope that either Graveman or Lopez can close. 

They should be just fine going into the season with holes on their roster because they aren't serious about winning with that budget anyway. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If the budget is really $180M they shouldn't be trading guys like Vaughn, Crochet, Montgomery, Colas, Vera, Schultz, etc. 

Just dumpster dive to fill holes and hope for the best.

And they should trade Hendriks and hope that either Graveman or Lopez can close. 

I've mentioned it before, I can't be a bigger Liam Hendriks fan both as a player and a person. He's been great as a White Sox, but if you can get something nice for him, now is the time. I worry about his elbow, and how the pitch clock may effect his performance. No one Is really talking about how the pitch clock can really change the guys with the max effort gas. A lot need more than the 15 seconds in recovery time.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Dick Allen